Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

It's a full curriculum and it's pretty thorough, particularly with regard to problem solving, making lots of conceptual connections, and many challenging problems. While it does of course contain basic exercises at the beginning of each chapter/topic, some parents find that their kids needed a bit more practice on the drill type questions. For that, anything such as Kumon/random worksheets can be used.

It's important to guide/support the child, especially initially when they are not used to the feeling of being stuck and want to quickly give up if they can't think of anything in a minute. Ideally work some of the problems together with them, and read the provided hints/solutions as they're very helpful. Some parents do the problems themselves ahead of time so that they can explain/help their kids effectively when they do get stuck Initially it's a big step for kids (and some adults) to switch away from thinking in a very procedural fashion, but once they get used to it, it's very much worth it for the critical thinking skills.

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

It's a full curriculum and it's pretty thorough, particularly with regard to problem solving, making lots of conceptual connections, and many challenging problems. While it does of course contain basic exercises at the beginning of each chapter/topic, some parents find that their kids needed a bit more practice on the drill type questions. For that, anything such as Kumon/random worksheets can be used.

It's important to guide/support the child, especially initially when they are not used to the feeling of being stuck and want to quickly give up if they can't think of anything in a minute. Ideally work some of the problems together with them, and read the provided hints/solutions as they're very helpful. Some parents do the problems themselves ahead of time so that they can explain/help their kids effectively when they do get stuck Initially it's a big step for kids (and some adults) to switch away from thinking in a very procedural fashion, but once they get used to it, it's very much worth it for the critical thinking skills.

Thanks! I have noticed this already as we work through BA2 and am working on balancing providing support and encouraging persistence. Are the practice books useful for the extra practice over and above the online material or are you talking about a different kind of practice like memorizing basic facts and procedures? Does BA teach all the basic procedures or concepts the child would encounter on Kumon worksheets and elsewhere?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

It's a full curriculum and it's pretty thorough, particularly with regard to problem solving, making lots of conceptual connections, and many challenging problems. While it does of course contain basic exercises at the beginning of each chapter/topic, some parents find that their kids needed a bit more practice on the drill type questions. For that, anything such as Kumon/random worksheets can be used.

It's important to guide/support the child, especially initially when they are not used to the feeling of being stuck and want to quickly give up if they can't think of anything in a minute. Ideally work some of the problems together with them, and read the provided hints/solutions as they're very helpful. Some parents do the problems themselves ahead of time so that they can explain/help their kids effectively when they do get stuck Initially it's a big step for kids (and some adults) to switch away from thinking in a very procedural fashion, but once they get used to it, it's very much worth it for the critical thinking skills.

Thanks! I have noticed this already as we work through BA2 and am working on balancing providing support and encouraging persistence. Are the practice books useful for the extra practice over and above the online material or are you talking about a different kind of practice like memorizing basic facts and procedures? Does BA teach all the basic procedures or concepts the child would encounter on Kumon worksheets and elsewhere?

It sounds like your child would be better in a program like RSM where they teach the math concepts and dive more deeply into those concepts. AoPS and BA are solid options for kids who already understand the fundamentals or grasp the fundamental skills quickly and easily.If your kid is not one of those kids then you need a parent who can explain the fundamentals and provide extra drill questions/support. The AoPS in-person/online classes use the BA books in the classroom environment but there is a Teacher to walk the kids through the books. We noticed that the Teacher needed to have some kids stay online after class to review material with them pretty much every week. It isn’t an easy program. I think people on this forum think that BA is challenging but doable for everyone because they have kids that grasp math concepts quickly but those kids are the rarity. They also have/are parents who can guide their kids through the BA books but, again, those people are the rarity.

RSM works well for a kid who needs some level of support, that is what the first level of class is for, as well as kids who can grasp the material quickly and want to dive deeper. There are more RSM store fronts then AoPS for a reason, more kids can succeed at RSM then in AoPS because of how the courses are designed. RSM has the math competition classes that they offer for the kids who want to delve into more creative math problems.

Both programs are great, we have used both and ended up with RSM simply because it was a lot closer and saves us an hour of drive time. But they are not inter changeable. AoPS is more niche. If I was was looking for a program for a homeschool kid, I would probably look at RSM because it offers a more traditional approach that moves quickly and cna go deep.

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

It's a full curriculum and it's pretty thorough, particularly with regard to problem solving, making lots of conceptual connections, and many challenging problems. While it does of course contain basic exercises at the beginning of each chapter/topic, some parents find that their kids needed a bit more practice on the drill type questions. For that, anything such as Kumon/random worksheets can be used.

It's important to guide/support the child, especially initially when they are not used to the feeling of being stuck and want to quickly give up if they can't think of anything in a minute. Ideally work some of the problems together with them, and read the provided hints/solutions as they're very helpful. Some parents do the problems themselves ahead of time so that they can explain/help their kids effectively when they do get stuck Initially it's a big step for kids (and some adults) to switch away from thinking in a very procedural fashion, but once they get used to it, it's very much worth it for the critical thinking skills.

Thanks! I have noticed this already as we work through BA2 and am working on balancing providing support and encouraging persistence. Are the practice books useful for the extra practice over and above the online material or are you talking about a different kind of practice like memorizing basic facts and procedures? Does BA teach all the basic procedures or concepts the child would encounter on Kumon worksheets and elsewhere?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

It's a full curriculum and it's pretty thorough, particularly with regard to problem solving, making lots of conceptual connections, and many challenging problems. While it does of course contain basic exercises at the beginning of each chapter/topic, some parents find that their kids needed a bit more practice on the drill type questions. For that, anything such as Kumon/random worksheets can be used.

It's important to guide/support the child, especially initially when they are not used to the feeling of being stuck and want to quickly give up if they can't think of anything in a minute. Ideally work some of the problems together with them, and read the provided hints/solutions as they're very helpful. Some parents do the problems themselves ahead of time so that they can explain/help their kids effectively when they do get stuck Initially it's a big step for kids (and some adults) to switch away from thinking in a very procedural fashion, but once they get used to it, it's very much worth it for the critical thinking skills.

Thanks! I have noticed this already as we work through BA2 and am working on balancing providing support and encouraging persistence. Are the practice books useful for the extra practice over and above the online material or are you talking about a different kind of practice like memorizing basic facts and procedures? Does BA teach all the basic procedures or concepts the child would encounter on Kumon worksheets and elsewhere?

It sounds like your child would be better in a program like RSM where they teach the math concepts and dive more deeply into those concepts. AoPS and BA are solid options for kids who already understand the fundamentals or grasp the fundamental skills quickly and easily.If your kid is not one of those kids then you need a parent who can explain the fundamentals and provide extra drill questions/support. The AoPS in-person/online classes use the BA books in the classroom environment but there is a Teacher to walk the kids through the books. We noticed that the Teacher needed to have some kids stay online after class to review material with them pretty much every week. It isn’t an easy program. I think people on this forum think that BA is challenging but doable for everyone because they have kids that grasp math concepts quickly but those kids are the rarity. They also have/are parents who can guide their kids through the BA books but, again, those people are the rarity.

RSM works well for a kid who needs some level of support, that is what the first level of class is for, as well as kids who can grasp the material quickly and want to dive deeper. There are more RSM store fronts then AoPS for a reason, more kids can succeed at RSM then in AoPS because of how the courses are designed. RSM has the math competition classes that they offer for the kids who want to delve into more creative math problems.

Both programs are great, we have used both and ended up with RSM simply because it was a lot closer and saves us an hour of drive time. But they are not inter changeable. AoPS is more niche. If I was was looking for a program for a homeschool kid, I would probably look at RSM because it offers a more traditional approach that moves quickly and cna go deep.

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

It's a full curriculum and it's pretty thorough, particularly with regard to problem solving, making lots of conceptual connections, and many challenging problems. While it does of course contain basic exercises at the beginning of each chapter/topic, some parents find that their kids needed a bit more practice on the drill type questions. For that, anything such as Kumon/random worksheets can be used.

It's important to guide/support the child, especially initially when they are not used to the feeling of being stuck and want to quickly give up if they can't think of anything in a minute. Ideally work some of the problems together with them, and read the provided hints/solutions as they're very helpful. Some parents do the problems themselves ahead of time so that they can explain/help their kids effectively when they do get stuck Initially it's a big step for kids (and some adults) to switch away from thinking in a very procedural fashion, but once they get used to it, it's very much worth it for the critical thinking skills.

Thanks! I have noticed this already as we work through BA2 and am working on balancing providing support and encouraging persistence. Are the practice books useful for the extra practice over and above the online material or are you talking about a different kind of practice like memorizing basic facts and procedures? Does BA teach all the basic procedures or concepts the child would encounter on Kumon worksheets and elsewhere?

I've only used the books and not the online while working through all of BA with my son. You can use either one they both teach the same material. Online is great, but some people have mentioned that they thought the books are just a bit harder on average. I'm not sure if this is fully true since it seems AoPS tried pretty hard to have both mediums contain pretty much the same material. My son did not struggle with the basics at the beginning, though he certainly got stuck numerous times with later problems. He is quite lucky that I can teach and explain things to him though. His biggest issue so far is that while he can grasp things pretty quickly, he tends to want to do too much in his head which can trip him up in more difficult problems. I'm slowly trying to get him to write more and to convince him that it can actually be quicker to solve a problem by writing some stuff down since it unloads a lot of stuff he has to keep in his head.

There are a few things that BA doesn't teach until later on, i.e the standard multiplication and division algorithms. They do teach how to multiply and divide, but they teach it in a way that makes logical sense. For multiplication they teach partial products way (i.e the distributive property in column format) which is super useful for really understanding place value. Kids pick that up right away but when they see the standard multiplication algorithm in school, they may stick to their partial product method because they like it. With large numbers (let's say 3 digit x 3 digit numbers) partial products can become quite cumbersome in terms of the amount of writing (and if kids don't write super neat, they may put digits in a different column and get the wrong result). In school they like to make them do large number multiplications by hand and the standard algorithm is the most efficient way of doing that in terms of the amount of writing. But this of course isn't really a big deal at all; the important part is that they have a solid conceptual understanding and aren't just memorizing an algorithm. Division is the same way; instead of teaching the standard long division algorithm, they teach a similar method that actually makes sense, which is doing division by repeatedly subtracting multiples but letting kids subtract whatever multiples they're comfortable with to reduce the original number down. So again when they're forced to do long division in school, kids may prefer to do it the BA way, and again it's fine.

Anonymous wrote:Also, one more q, will BA give new problems if you redo a lesson or is it the same probs? Not that it makes a huge difference as I doubt my son would remember the old answers but would be nice to do more practice in lieu of receiving the books. (I guess that's how they get you to buy the books.)

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is BA a complete curriculum or supplement? Could it be used in conjunction with Khan Academy or Kumon worksheets as a complete curriculum? DC is home schooled for the time being and just wondering how thorough BA is.

It's a full curriculum and it's pretty thorough, particularly with regard to problem solving, making lots of conceptual connections, and many challenging problems. While it does of course contain basic exercises at the beginning of each chapter/topic, some parents find that their kids needed a bit more practice on the drill type questions. For that, anything such as Kumon/random worksheets can be used.

It's important to guide/support the child, especially initially when they are not used to the feeling of being stuck and want to quickly give up if they can't think of anything in a minute. Ideally work some of the problems together with them, and read the provided hints/solutions as they're very helpful. Some parents do the problems themselves ahead of time so that they can explain/help their kids effectively when they do get stuck Initially it's a big step for kids (and some adults) to switch away from thinking in a very procedural fashion, but once they get used to it, it's very much worth it for the critical thinking skills.

Thanks! I have noticed this already as we work through BA2 and am working on balancing providing support and encouraging persistence. Are the practice books useful for the extra practice over and above the online material or are you talking about a different kind of practice like memorizing basic facts and procedures? Does BA teach all the basic procedures or concepts the child would encounter on Kumon worksheets and elsewhere?

It sounds like your child would be better in a program like RSM where they teach the math concepts and dive more deeply into those concepts. AoPS and BA are solid options for kids who already understand the fundamentals or grasp the fundamental skills quickly and easily.If your kid is not one of those kids then you need a parent who can explain the fundamentals and provide extra drill questions/support. The AoPS in-person/online classes use the BA books in the classroom environment but there is a Teacher to walk the kids through the books. We noticed that the Teacher needed to have some kids stay online after class to review material with them pretty much every week. It isn’t an easy program. I think people on this forum think that BA is challenging but doable for everyone because they have kids that grasp math concepts quickly but those kids are the rarity. They also have/are parents who can guide their kids through the BA books but, again, those people are the rarity.

RSM works well for a kid who needs some level of support, that is what the first level of class is for, as well as kids who can grasp the material quickly and want to dive deeper. There are more RSM store fronts then AoPS for a reason, more kids can succeed at RSM then in AoPS because of how the courses are designed. RSM has the math competition classes that they offer for the kids who want to delve into more creative math problems.

Both programs are great, we have used both and ended up with RSM simply because it was a lot closer and saves us an hour of drive time. But they are not inter changeable. AoPS is more niche. If I was was looking for a program for a homeschool kid, I would probably look at RSM because it offers a more traditional approach that moves quickly and cna go deep.

My quibble with RSM was that they have not published any books or material that I can just buy and evaluate. AoPS has all the books published and I can buy them from their website and evaluate their scope and depth by working through samples of it. Anecdotally, I saw a few RSM worksheet like samples from a friend in a different state and they did not look challenging. So outside of their math contest preparation class, I'm unsure as to what and how they are learning since there is no way to access anything without enrolling in a class.

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, one more q, will BA give new problems if you redo a lesson or is it the same probs? Not that it makes a huge difference as I doubt my son would remember the old answers but would be nice to do more practice in lieu of receiving the books. (I guess that's how they get you to buy the books.)

Not fully sure, but you can experiment by clicking redo and see if it changes the problems, or the order, or both. If you're also thinking of buying books, note that the guidebooks are exactly the same as the digital version so you would only need to get the workbooks (practice books). Also I strongly recommend you join the two facebook groups I posted earlier in this thread, any kind of specific question down to specific problems are asked and you will get a lot of feedback on everything BA/AoPS related. Also note that the challenging/enrichment topics are in the "upstairs" section in the online version, I believe those correspond to some of the problem sections in the workbooks.

Anonymous wrote:Also, one more q, will BA give new problems if you redo a lesson or is it the same probs? Not that it makes a huge difference as I doubt my son would remember the old answers but would be nice to do more practice in lieu of receiving the books. (I guess that's how they get you to buy the books.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, one more q, will BA give new problems if you redo a lesson or is it the same probs? Not that it makes a huge difference as I doubt my son would remember the old answers but would be nice to do more practice in lieu of receiving the books. (I guess that's how they get you to buy the books.)

It's been a long time since my kids were at the BA level, but if I remember correctly, there are 2 or 3 different problem sets for each lesson. If you redo it once, you should get different problems. After that, I'm not sure.