Transplant_1 wrote:What is the club getting out of it? My guess is one upside is keeping parents less aware of nearby good clubs / teams / coaches, so then less likely to jump ship?

One of my children in elementary school travels about an hour to games in far flung parts of MD and VA, despite plenty of nearby teams (Arlington, Alexandria, Bethesda) that would provide decent competition. My main guess is to keep parents less aware of those nearby teams (but of course parents talk, so they are somewhat aware). And since the teams they are more aware of through games are extremely far away, they would never join.

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

Thank you. This is very interesting. I am shocked to see almost no difference between ECNL and National PRO on the boys side relative to MLS Next. Though not too surprised. As a player parent, I don't see any point in discussing leagues across genders, or, more generally, across pretty diverse regions and all age groups. The fact that ECNL offers top play for young women is completely irrelevant to my son.

You may think it is irrelevant to your son that ECNL allows for top play for both girls and boys, but you would by wrong. Clubs must have both their boys and girls teams in the ECNL National league to be a member. This is one reason why Arlington is in ECNL and not in MLSNext. This allows ECNL to give a more sustainable model for clubs to market themselves and to make money. Boys and girls teams support each other. They allow clubs to pay coaches and give more scholarships to both sides. If you have a club that can only REALLY market itself for high level play to the boy segment of the population, then the club will need to have a large number of lower level teams with players that pay full amounts to support the MLSNext team expenses, along with the scholarships for that team. And I do feel sorry for those parents who have been sold on development for their children, when in fact all they are is a paying parent.

As a player parent, who has seen alphabet leagues rise and fall, or come and go (the old DA league comes to mind), I think MLSNext is just the old DA league with a new name. This affects the boys on the second teams when a league folds and then your club is trying to find a league to play in the next season. Many of these teams that are going into the National Academy League are currently in EDP, before that they were in CCL, and before that they were in NCLS. There really isn't much difference and ultimately, in a couple of years these same teams will be in another league so the MLSNext clubs can try to market themselves.

Go Luck to the teams that are joining the new league. Don't get too comfortable or buy anything with NAL on it as it will be obsolete in about 2 years time.

TedLasso wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

Thank you. This is very interesting. I am shocked to see almost no difference between ECNL and National PRO on the boys side relative to MLS Next. Though not too surprised. As a player parent, I don't see any point in discussing leagues across genders, or, more generally, across pretty diverse regions and all age groups. The fact that ECNL offers top play for young women is completely irrelevant to my son.

You may think it is irrelevant to your son that ECNL allows for top play for both girls and boys, but you would by wrong. Clubs must have both their boys and girls teams in the ECNL National league to be a member. This is one reason why Arlington is in ECNL and not in MLSNext. This allows ECNL to give a more sustainable model for clubs to market themselves and to make money. Boys and girls teams support each other. They allow clubs to pay coaches and give more scholarships to both sides. If you have a club that can only REALLY market itself for high level play to the boy segment of the population, then the club will need to have a large number of lower level teams with players that pay full amounts to support the MLSNext team expenses, along with the scholarships for that team. And I do feel sorry for those parents who have been sold on development for their children, when in fact all they are is a paying parent.

As a player parent, who has seen alphabet leagues rise and fall, or come and go (the old DA league comes to mind), I think MLSNext is just the old DA league with a new name. This affects the boys on the second teams when a league folds and then your club is trying to find a league to play in the next season. Many of these teams that are going into the National Academy League are currently in EDP, before that they were in CCL, and before that they were in NCLS. There really isn't much difference and ultimately, in a couple of years these same teams will be in another league so the MLSNext clubs can try to market themselves.

Go Luck to the teams that are joining the new league. Don't get too comfortable or buy anything with NAL on it as it will be obsolete in about 2 years time.

I thought the same thing and then discovered Baltimore Celtic fields a GA team and a boys ECNL national team. So is it really in their rules or what happened with that club?

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

Thank you. This is very interesting. I am shocked to see almost no difference between ECNL and National PRO on the boys side relative to MLS Next. Though not too surprised. As a player parent, I don't see any point in discussing leagues across genders, or, more generally, across pretty diverse regions and all age groups. The fact that ECNL offers top play for young women is completely irrelevant to my son.

You may think it is irrelevant to your son that ECNL allows for top play for both girls and boys, but you would by wrong. Clubs must have both their boys and girls teams in the ECNL National league to be a member. This is one reason why Arlington is in ECNL and not in MLSNext. This allows ECNL to give a more sustainable model for clubs to market themselves and to make money. Boys and girls teams support each other. They allow clubs to pay coaches and give more scholarships to both sides. If you have a club that can only REALLY market itself for high level play to the boy segment of the population, then the club will need to have a large number of lower level teams with players that pay full amounts to support the MLSNext team expenses, along with the scholarships for that team. And I do feel sorry for those parents who have been sold on development for their children, when in fact all they are is a paying parent.

As a player parent, who has seen alphabet leagues rise and fall, or come and go (the old DA league comes to mind), I think MLSNext is just the old DA league with a new name. This affects the boys on the second teams when a league folds and then your club is trying to find a league to play in the next season. Many of these teams that are going into the National Academy League are currently in EDP, before that they were in CCL, and before that they were in NCLS. There really isn't much difference and ultimately, in a couple of years these same teams will be in another league so the MLSNext clubs can try to market themselves.

Go Luck to the teams that are joining the new league. Don't get too comfortable or buy anything with NAL on it as it will be obsolete in about 2 years time.

Yes, well, I and many others have experience with the alphabet soup of leagues and league-chest-beating as well, and despite all of the dire predictions in 2020/2021 about how SYC, Achilles and Alexandria would never have anything beyond U-14, or how they would never be able to play MLS club academies, or how ECNL would ultimately prevail, I don't think the last three years have borne that out at all. There is a talent gap and it continues to widen across the country. That goal difference will continue to expand. And kids will still go to SYC and Alexandria in droves at younger ages. Can we just give the league crap a rest?

I never said that SYC, Achilles and/or Alexandria would never be able to play any MLS clubs. Of course they would, could and do. There is lots of talent in the DC/Baltimore area. ECNL National and MLSNext clubs from this area are comparable in talent, are very good, are very competitive against clubs from outside this area, and will continue to be. Very similar talent on these level of teams.

What I'm trying to say, and maybe not doing a good job of it, is that I have heard several parents refer to MLSNext clubs forming 2nd MLSNext teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria, which they are not. These are the same second tier teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria that currently play in EDP. I have noticed that NAL did not say anything about MLSNext in their announcements. Overall, these are not MLSNext or ECNL National level players that will be in this league.

greypanther wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

Thank you. This is very interesting. I am shocked to see almost no difference between ECNL and National PRO on the boys side relative to MLS Next. Though not too surprised. As a player parent, I don't see any point in discussing leagues across genders, or, more generally, across pretty diverse regions and all age groups. The fact that ECNL offers top play for young women is completely irrelevant to my son.

You may think it is irrelevant to your son that ECNL allows for top play for both girls and boys, but you would by wrong. Clubs must have both their boys and girls teams in the ECNL National league to be a member. This is one reason why Arlington is in ECNL and not in MLSNext. This allows ECNL to give a more sustainable model for clubs to market themselves and to make money. Boys and girls teams support each other. They allow clubs to pay coaches and give more scholarships to both sides. If you have a club that can only REALLY market itself for high level play to the boy segment of the population, then the club will need to have a large number of lower level teams with players that pay full amounts to support the MLSNext team expenses, along with the scholarships for that team. And I do feel sorry for those parents who have been sold on development for their children, when in fact all they are is a paying parent.

As a player parent, who has seen alphabet leagues rise and fall, or come and go (the old DA league comes to mind), I think MLSNext is just the old DA league with a new name. This affects the boys on the second teams when a league folds and then your club is trying to find a league to play in the next season. Many of these teams that are going into the National Academy League are currently in EDP, before that they were in CCL, and before that they were in NCLS. There really isn't much difference and ultimately, in a couple of years these same teams will be in another league so the MLSNext clubs can try to market themselves.

Go Luck to the teams that are joining the new league. Don't get too comfortable or buy anything with NAL on it as it will be obsolete in about 2 years time.

Yes, well, I and many others have experience with the alphabet soup of leagues and league-chest-beating as well, and despite all of the dire predictions in 2020/2021 about how SYC, Achilles and Alexandria would never have anything beyond U-14, or how they would never be able to play MLS club academies, or how ECNL would ultimately prevail, I don't think the last three years have borne that out at all. There is a talent gap and it continues to widen across the country. That goal difference will continue to expand. And kids will still go to SYC and Alexandria in droves at younger ages. Can we just give the league crap a rest?

I never said that SYC, Achilles and/or Alexandria would never be able to play any MLS clubs. Of course they would, could and do. There is lots of talent in the DC/Baltimore area. ECNL National and MLSNext clubs from this area are comparable in talent, are very good, are very competitive against clubs from outside this area, and will continue to be. Very similar talent on these level of teams.

What I'm trying to say, and maybe not doing a good job of it, is that I have heard several parents refer to MLSNext clubs forming 2nd MLSNext teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria, which they are not. These are the same second tier teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria that currently play in EDP. I have noticed that NAL did not say anything about MLSNext in their announcements. Overall, these are not MLSNext or ECNL National level players that will be in this league.

But there does seem to be a gap. At U13, edp starts at div 3. Our mls next club second team performs at a much higher level than the teams in this edp division 3. Where do they play?

CleansheetDad wrote:I see this as another attempt by the MLSNext Academies to try and "sell" their second teams to unsuspecting parents. It seems that the ECNL Academies have a better structure for both the boys and girls with the National and Regional leagues. Most MLSNext clubs have their second teams in EDP, which is inferior competition when compared to ECNL Regional. In fact, many ECNL Regional teams play both ECNL-R and EDP so the data below may even be greater between EDP and ECNL-R.

USA Sports Statistics analyzed all the results in the Soccer Rankings app to find which leagues should be considered the best. They calculated the rating of the average team in each league for each age group and gender and found the rankings were the same for each of the 2006 - 2010 age groups. They also calculated the difference between the average team in each league and the average team in the best league. For example, the average boys MLSNext team should beat the average boys Elite 64 team by about 2.3 goals. Their takeaway is that there is a lot of overlap in quality between MLSNext and ECNL National boys. However, Elite 64, EA and ECNL Regional boys are quite similar and a lot weaker. For girls, ECNL National is by far the strongest competition.

Girls Ranking with goal difference
1. ECNL National
2. GA - 1.5
3. National League PRO - 1.5
4.ELITE 64 - 2.3
5. ECNL Regional - 3.2
6. DPL - 3.8
7. NPL - 4.0
8. EDP - 5.0

Boys Ranking with goal difference
1. MLSNext
2. ECNL National - 0.7
3. National League PRO - 0.8
4. ELITE 64 - 2.3
5. Elite Academy - 2.6
6. ECNL Regional - 3.2
7. NPL - 3.7
8. EDP - 4.2

I see ECNL as the better league for the majority of clubs as a whole. They can sell the high level of competition to both girls and boys, allow them to play for their High School, along with the options for developing players to move up or just play in a region without having to travel too far. This allows clubs to market themselves to a wider variety of parent and player. MLSNext though only has a high level of play for boys, limited opportunities for its current players due to their rules (both on game day and for High School teams), and no girl teams. So for an MLSNext club, you can really only market yourself to about 18-20 boys families. That limits the clubs resources and marketing capabilities since many parents want to give their kids a chance to develop and grow.

Anonymous wrote:

greypanther wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

Thank you. This is very interesting. I am shocked to see almost no difference between ECNL and National PRO on the boys side relative to MLS Next. Though not too surprised. As a player parent, I don't see any point in discussing leagues across genders, or, more generally, across pretty diverse regions and all age groups. The fact that ECNL offers top play for young women is completely irrelevant to my son.

You may think it is irrelevant to your son that ECNL allows for top play for both girls and boys, but you would by wrong. Clubs must have both their boys and girls teams in the ECNL National league to be a member. This is one reason why Arlington is in ECNL and not in MLSNext. This allows ECNL to give a more sustainable model for clubs to market themselves and to make money. Boys and girls teams support each other. They allow clubs to pay coaches and give more scholarships to both sides. If you have a club that can only REALLY market itself for high level play to the boy segment of the population, then the club will need to have a large number of lower level teams with players that pay full amounts to support the MLSNext team expenses, along with the scholarships for that team. And I do feel sorry for those parents who have been sold on development for their children, when in fact all they are is a paying parent.

As a player parent, who has seen alphabet leagues rise and fall, or come and go (the old DA league comes to mind), I think MLSNext is just the old DA league with a new name. This affects the boys on the second teams when a league folds and then your club is trying to find a league to play in the next season. Many of these teams that are going into the National Academy League are currently in EDP, before that they were in CCL, and before that they were in NCLS. There really isn't much difference and ultimately, in a couple of years these same teams will be in another league so the MLSNext clubs can try to market themselves.

Go Luck to the teams that are joining the new league. Don't get too comfortable or buy anything with NAL on it as it will be obsolete in about 2 years time.

Yes, well, I and many others have experience with the alphabet soup of leagues and league-chest-beating as well, and despite all of the dire predictions in 2020/2021 about how SYC, Achilles and Alexandria would never have anything beyond U-14, or how they would never be able to play MLS club academies, or how ECNL would ultimately prevail, I don't think the last three years have borne that out at all. There is a talent gap and it continues to widen across the country. That goal difference will continue to expand. And kids will still go to SYC and Alexandria in droves at younger ages. Can we just give the league crap a rest?

I never said that SYC, Achilles and/or Alexandria would never be able to play any MLS clubs. Of course they would, could and do. There is lots of talent in the DC/Baltimore area. ECNL National and MLSNext clubs from this area are comparable in talent, are very good, are very competitive against clubs from outside this area, and will continue to be. Very similar talent on these level of teams.

What I'm trying to say, and maybe not doing a good job of it, is that I have heard several parents refer to MLSNext clubs forming 2nd MLSNext teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria, which they are not. These are the same second tier teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria that currently play in EDP. I have noticed that NAL did not say anything about MLSNext in their announcements. Overall, these are not MLSNext or ECNL National level players that will be in this league.

But there does seem to be a gap. At U13, edp starts at div 3. Our mls next club second team performs at a much higher level than the teams in this edp division 3. Where do they play?

Didn't an EDP U13 team just win the Maryland State Cup beating MLS Next and ECNL teams along the way?
Youth Development isn't about labels.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

greypanther wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

Thank you. This is very interesting. I am shocked to see almost no difference between ECNL and National PRO on the boys side relative to MLS Next. Though not too surprised. As a player parent, I don't see any point in discussing leagues across genders, or, more generally, across pretty diverse regions and all age groups. The fact that ECNL offers top play for young women is completely irrelevant to my son.

You may think it is irrelevant to your son that ECNL allows for top play for both girls and boys, but you would by wrong. Clubs must have both their boys and girls teams in the ECNL National league to be a member. This is one reason why Arlington is in ECNL and not in MLSNext. This allows ECNL to give a more sustainable model for clubs to market themselves and to make money. Boys and girls teams support each other. They allow clubs to pay coaches and give more scholarships to both sides. If you have a club that can only REALLY market itself for high level play to the boy segment of the population, then the club will need to have a large number of lower level teams with players that pay full amounts to support the MLSNext team expenses, along with the scholarships for that team. And I do feel sorry for those parents who have been sold on development for their children, when in fact all they are is a paying parent.

As a player parent, who has seen alphabet leagues rise and fall, or come and go (the old DA league comes to mind), I think MLSNext is just the old DA league with a new name. This affects the boys on the second teams when a league folds and then your club is trying to find a league to play in the next season. Many of these teams that are going into the National Academy League are currently in EDP, before that they were in CCL, and before that they were in NCLS. There really isn't much difference and ultimately, in a couple of years these same teams will be in another league so the MLSNext clubs can try to market themselves.

Go Luck to the teams that are joining the new league. Don't get too comfortable or buy anything with NAL on it as it will be obsolete in about 2 years time.

Yes, well, I and many others have experience with the alphabet soup of leagues and league-chest-beating as well, and despite all of the dire predictions in 2020/2021 about how SYC, Achilles and Alexandria would never have anything beyond U-14, or how they would never be able to play MLS club academies, or how ECNL would ultimately prevail, I don't think the last three years have borne that out at all. There is a talent gap and it continues to widen across the country. That goal difference will continue to expand. And kids will still go to SYC and Alexandria in droves at younger ages. Can we just give the league crap a rest?

I never said that SYC, Achilles and/or Alexandria would never be able to play any MLS clubs. Of course they would, could and do. There is lots of talent in the DC/Baltimore area. ECNL National and MLSNext clubs from this area are comparable in talent, are very good, are very competitive against clubs from outside this area, and will continue to be. Very similar talent on these level of teams.

What I'm trying to say, and maybe not doing a good job of it, is that I have heard several parents refer to MLSNext clubs forming 2nd MLSNext teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria, which they are not. These are the same second tier teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria that currently play in EDP. I have noticed that NAL did not say anything about MLSNext in their announcements. Overall, these are not MLSNext or ECNL National level players that will be in this league.

But there does seem to be a gap. At U13, edp starts at div 3. Our mls next club second team performs at a much higher level than the teams in this edp division 3. Where do they play?

Didn't an EDP U13 team just win the Maryland State Cup beating MLS Next and ECNL teams along the way?
Youth Development isn't about labels.

Please show me the MLSNext teams in this bracket: https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/21516/schedules?group=176377 (I am not even sure if any are ECNL).

Kudos to Laurel, as it is hard to win any tournament of this nature. You can only play who is on your schedule, but they had a pretty easy ride (on paper), beating FC Charles (bottom of EDP), FC Frederick (bottom of EDP), Bethesda's second team (EDP), and Go Premier (EDP second division). So the answer to your question in bold above is "no, that didn't happen."

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

greypanther wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

CleansheetDad wrote:

westsidesoccer wrote:

Thank you. This is very interesting. I am shocked to see almost no difference between ECNL and National PRO on the boys side relative to MLS Next. Though not too surprised. As a player parent, I don't see any point in discussing leagues across genders, or, more generally, across pretty diverse regions and all age groups. The fact that ECNL offers top play for young women is completely irrelevant to my son.

You may think it is irrelevant to your son that ECNL allows for top play for both girls and boys, but you would by wrong. Clubs must have both their boys and girls teams in the ECNL National league to be a member. This is one reason why Arlington is in ECNL and not in MLSNext. This allows ECNL to give a more sustainable model for clubs to market themselves and to make money. Boys and girls teams support each other. They allow clubs to pay coaches and give more scholarships to both sides. If you have a club that can only REALLY market itself for high level play to the boy segment of the population, then the club will need to have a large number of lower level teams with players that pay full amounts to support the MLSNext team expenses, along with the scholarships for that team. And I do feel sorry for those parents who have been sold on development for their children, when in fact all they are is a paying parent.

As a player parent, who has seen alphabet leagues rise and fall, or come and go (the old DA league comes to mind), I think MLSNext is just the old DA league with a new name. This affects the boys on the second teams when a league folds and then your club is trying to find a league to play in the next season. Many of these teams that are going into the National Academy League are currently in EDP, before that they were in CCL, and before that they were in NCLS. There really isn't much difference and ultimately, in a couple of years these same teams will be in another league so the MLSNext clubs can try to market themselves.

Go Luck to the teams that are joining the new league. Don't get too comfortable or buy anything with NAL on it as it will be obsolete in about 2 years time.

Yes, well, I and many others have experience with the alphabet soup of leagues and league-chest-beating as well, and despite all of the dire predictions in 2020/2021 about how SYC, Achilles and Alexandria would never have anything beyond U-14, or how they would never be able to play MLS club academies, or how ECNL would ultimately prevail, I don't think the last three years have borne that out at all. There is a talent gap and it continues to widen across the country. That goal difference will continue to expand. And kids will still go to SYC and Alexandria in droves at younger ages. Can we just give the league crap a rest?

I never said that SYC, Achilles and/or Alexandria would never be able to play any MLS clubs. Of course they would, could and do. There is lots of talent in the DC/Baltimore area. ECNL National and MLSNext clubs from this area are comparable in talent, are very good, are very competitive against clubs from outside this area, and will continue to be. Very similar talent on these level of teams.

What I'm trying to say, and maybe not doing a good job of it, is that I have heard several parents refer to MLSNext clubs forming 2nd MLSNext teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria, which they are not. These are the same second tier teams for SYC, Achilles and Alexandria that currently play in EDP. I have noticed that NAL did not say anything about MLSNext in their announcements. Overall, these are not MLSNext or ECNL National level players that will be in this league.

But there does seem to be a gap. At U13, edp starts at div 3. Our mls next club second team performs at a much higher level than the teams in this edp division 3. Where do they play?

Didn't an EDP U13 team just win the Maryland State Cup beating MLS Next and ECNL teams along the way?
Youth Development isn't about labels.

Please show me the MLSNext teams in this bracket: https://system.gotsport.com/org_event/events/21516/schedules?group=176377 (I am not even sure if any are ECNL).

Kudos to Laurel, as it is hard to win any tournament of this nature. You can only play who is on your schedule, but they had a pretty easy ride (on paper), beating FC Charles (bottom of EDP), FC Frederick (bottom of EDP), Bethesda's second team (EDP), and Go Premier (EDP second division). So the answer to your question in bold above is "no, that didn't happen."

realdmv wrote:

Transplant_1 wrote:What is the club getting out of it? My guess is one upside is keeping parents less aware of nearby good clubs / teams / coaches, so then less likely to jump ship?

One of my children in elementary school travels about an hour to games in far flung parts of MD and VA, despite plenty of nearby teams (Arlington, Alexandria, Bethesda) that would provide decent competition. My main guess is to keep parents less aware of those nearby teams (but of course parents talk, so they are somewhat aware). And since the teams they are more aware of through games are extremely far away, they would never join.

Generally most people would agree and this was the case when we grew up in the DMV. There was the boys league - NCSL and the girls league - WAGS. Everyone played in those leagues. Since then i'd say Virginia clubs have created new leagues that exclude adjacent clubs, Club Champions League, and ECNL (headquarters are in Richmond). So if you want to blame anyone it's the Virginia clubs who started this mess. At least from my perspective.

I don't think anyone will benefit other than maybe you're kid will get scouted more than a kid in EDP.

Anonymous wrote:What am I missing?

Missing the most important variable. Money. Clubs made more money telling kids they made MLS Next when in reality half of them made MLS Next second team.