Private middle school and TJ

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[Post New]06/27/2022 12:50
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Anonymous
It would have been preferable just to do a pure lottery among the applicants meeting minimum criteria, since the system they came up with is not merit-based, is poorly understood (as this thread demonstrates), and depends largely on subjective factors. A pure lottery would be simpler to administer and involve less BS.

The idiots on the School Board who approved this fiasco need to be voted out next year. They are utter imbeciles.
[Post New]06/27/2022 13:25
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Anonymous
Your private school kid has very low odds, OP. Last year there were fewer than 10 kids accepted from private schools. I’m not sure of this year’s number.
[Post New]06/27/2022 14:42
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febegaj
Member Offline
Anonymous wrote:Your private school kid has very low odds, OP. Last year there were fewer than 10 kids accepted from private schools. I’m not sure of this year’s number.


Is there a source for that?
[Post New]06/27/2022 16:40
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Anonymous
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your private school kid has very low odds, OP. Last year there were fewer than 10 kids accepted from private schools. I’m not sure of this year’s number.


Is there a source for that?


No it's made up.
[Post New]06/27/2022 18:40
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Anonymous
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your private school kid has very low odds, OP. Last year there were fewer than 10 kids accepted from private schools. I’m not sure of this year’s number.


Is there a source for that?


DP. For the Class of 2025, there were 15 private school/homeschooled kids out of the 550 total students offered admission. The admission rate for public school kids was 18.6%. The admission rate for private/homeschooled kids was 10.2%. Of course, with the declining interest in TJ it is possible that the odds may have improved for both public and private school kids applying to the Class of 2026.

https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem
[Post New]06/28/2022 13:03
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Anonymous
It depends on which private school. DC said 20+ 8th graders applied this year from Basis McLean. 4 got offers, and some declined the offer. Not sure whether more classmates were admitted from the wait pool. The admission outcomes seem somewhat random though.
[Post New]06/28/2022 13:18
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Anonymous
It’s important to keep in mind that the kids from disadvantaged families have to work harder to get the same grades as kids from families that give them every possible advantage. So, the kids from disadvantaged families could possibly be smarter, as in having a higher raw intelligence level, than the kids from more advantaged families.
[Post New]06/28/2022 14:34
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Anonymous
febegaj wrote:I see contradicting answers and I am still confused.
So suppose we have 3 middle schools, each with 100 students.
School A is FCPS "lower-performing", school B is FCPS "high-performing" and school C is private.
We have 3 students x,y,z from schools A,B and C respectively. All 3 students have the same academic level.
What are (roughly) the TJ admission odds for each student?


A Good performing student in a low performing school has the best chance of getting into TJ. But depending on the number of qualified students, they may not even use 1.5% quota. Anything unused goes to unallocated

Students from high performing schools (Longfellow, Carson, Rocky Run, Cooper) gets > 1.5% when it is all done because when they are ranked with others as part of the unallocated quota, these kids get in.
My son got into TJ from Longfellow and have seen how competitive kids are from these top schools. You pretty much need GPA 4 from those schools to get in + writing the best SPS and STEM response

Private schools have no reserved quota and kids from private are in the unallocated seats
[Post New]06/28/2022 14:37
quote
Anonymous
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your private school kid has very low odds, OP. Last year there were fewer than 10 kids accepted from private schools. I’m not sure of this year’s number.


Is there a source for that?


https://www.fcag.org/tjstatistics.shtml

I have heard private admission was low last year because the TJ results came in late and kids in private middle school ended by continuing in private for high school
[Post New]06/29/2022 14:42
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Anonymous
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Your basic premise is flawed in saying the students are equal level performers. If they are performing equally with the students at the weaker school, then they are most likely not getting in.
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.


I don't think it is flawed. I'm not saying the student in school A performs equally with the rest of the students in school A. E.g. you can imagine the exact same student, "cloned" across those 3 schools, and comparing the chances for each "cloned" student in each school.

Anonymous wrote:The students at C are not disadvantaged compared to B, but both B & C are disadvantaged compared to A.


Anonymous wrote:
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.


So for concrete numbers, and to show if I understand correctly: suppose open pool is 50 spots. Then A offers 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, B has 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, and C has 50 from open pool.

Student in school A (which is in the same academic level as that in B and in C), has a chance to get one of the 6 spots by competing against 100 academically weaker students, therefore at an advantage.
Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult.
Student in school C has no pre-allocated spots at all, therefore can only compete against the open pool from all schools, so student C is the most disadvantaged student of all 3. So I guess what PP 06/23/2022 11:29 said is correct?


"Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult."
If the student in school B does not get one of these 6 spots, than he has not gotten an advantage over an equal(or any) student in school C.
If the student in school B gets one of these 6 spots, then the equal student in school C will get an at large spot.
There is no disadvantage to a private school vs a top public school.


[Post New]06/30/2022 10:40
quote
febegaj
Member Offline
Anonymous wrote:
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Your basic premise is flawed in saying the students are equal level performers. If they are performing equally with the students at the weaker school, then they are most likely not getting in.
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.


I don't think it is flawed. I'm not saying the student in school A performs equally with the rest of the students in school A. E.g. you can imagine the exact same student, "cloned" across those 3 schools, and comparing the chances for each "cloned" student in each school.

Anonymous wrote:The students at C are not disadvantaged compared to B, but both B & C are disadvantaged compared to A.


Anonymous wrote:
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.


So for concrete numbers, and to show if I understand correctly: suppose open pool is 50 spots. Then A offers 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, B has 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, and C has 50 from open pool.

Student in school A (which is in the same academic level as that in B and in C), has a chance to get one of the 6 spots by competing against 100 academically weaker students, therefore at an advantage.
Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult.
Student in school C has no pre-allocated spots at all, therefore can only compete against the open pool from all schools, so student C is the most disadvantaged student of all 3. So I guess what PP 06/23/2022 11:29 said is correct?


"Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult."
If the student in school B does not get one of these 6 spots, than he has not gotten an advantage over an equal(or any) student in school C.
If the student in school B gets one of these 6 spots, then the equal student in school C will get an at large spot.
There is no disadvantage to a private school vs a top public school.




So far I understand the consensus is that B>C. I don't understand what you mean with that sentence. If e.g. school B has 10 applicants, then 6 of them get the pre-allocated spots and the rest 4 can still compete against all students (including C) in the open pool. School C does not have this, so I don't see why B == C.
[Post New]06/30/2022 10:55
quote
Anonymous
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Your basic premise is flawed in saying the students are equal level performers. If they are performing equally with the students at the weaker school, then they are most likely not getting in.
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.


I don't think it is flawed. I'm not saying the student in school A performs equally with the rest of the students in school A. E.g. you can imagine the exact same student, "cloned" across those 3 schools, and comparing the chances for each "cloned" student in each school.

Anonymous wrote:The students at C are not disadvantaged compared to B, but both B & C are disadvantaged compared to A.


Anonymous wrote:
Let's say there are 400 8th graders. Then both A & B are guaranteed six spots. However, after those 6, the remaining students would be competing in the open pool, which is what's left after every school get's their 1.5%.
School C would not have any guaranteed six spots and everyone would compete in the open pool. However, if C1 through C6 are as good as B6, then they will all be accepted, so they are not at a disadvantage compared to B(Longfellow). If the students are not that good, then they are in the open pool, same as B7-50, and again not a disadvantage.


So for concrete numbers, and to show if I understand correctly: suppose open pool is 50 spots. Then A offers 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, B has 6 spots plus 50 from open pool, and C has 50 from open pool.

Student in school A (which is in the same academic level as that in B and in C), has a chance to get one of the 6 spots by competing against 100 academically weaker students, therefore at an advantage.
Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult.
Student in school C has no pre-allocated spots at all, therefore can only compete against the open pool from all schools, so student C is the most disadvantaged student of all 3. So I guess what PP 06/23/2022 11:29 said is correct?


"Student in school B has the same numbers but competes against 100 stronger students, making claiming one of the 6 spots more difficult."
If the student in school B does not get one of these 6 spots, than he has not gotten an advantage over an equal(or any) student in school C.
If the student in school B gets one of these 6 spots, then the equal student in school C will get an at large spot.
There is no disadvantage to a private school vs a top public school.




So far I understand the consensus is that B>C. I don't understand what you mean with that sentence. If e.g. school B has 10 applicants, then 6 of them get the pre-allocated spots and the rest 4 can still compete against all students (including C) in the open pool. School C does not have this, so I don't see why B == C.


They're saying that if a kid has, say, 860/900 points in the TJ application, that kid will have the same chances as a Longfellow or Carson kid with the same score. In that sense, B==C.

The main reason B>C is that an equally proficient kid from private likely won't have as many points in the TJ application as the public school kid. Private school kids have not been inundated with the Portrait of a Graduate stuff, so they are less likely to do as well on the essays. If they say anything that outs them as a private school kid, they're likely to be judged more harshly. If the problem solving essay is science based, it will almost certainly be something covered in 7th grade or 1st quarter of 8th grade Honors science. Also, if the private school doesn't inflate grades nearly as much as the public, it's likely that the private school kid loses points from GPA.
[Post New]07/05/2022 15:12
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
They're saying that if a kid has, say, 860/900 points in the TJ application, that kid will have the same chances as a Longfellow or Carson kid with the same score. In that sense, B==C.

.


Exactly. Anyone good enough to get an automatic spot at Carson, is good enough to get an at large spot.
If the top 6 at the private school are not good enough to get an at large spot, then they wouldn't get an automatic spot at Carson.
[Post New]07/09/2022 10:41
quote
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
febegaj wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Your private school kid has very low odds, OP. Last year there were fewer than 10 kids accepted from private schools. I’m not sure of this year’s number.


Is there a source for that?


DP. For the Class of 2025, there were 15 private school/homeschooled kids out of the 550 total students offered admission. The admission rate for public school kids was 18.6%. The admission rate for private/homeschooled kids was 10.2%. Of course, with the declining interest in TJ it is possible that the odds may have improved for both public and private school kids applying to the Class of 2026.

https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem


This underscores how much better public education can be than private for people who make the best of it.
[Post New]07/24/2022 18:08
quote
Anonymous
Stay in private
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