Anonymous wrote:

BlueFredneck wrote:From the wiki:

Australia 30% foreign born, although it's in the 25% range if you take out England, Scotland, and the USA.
Switzerland 25% (although I don't see a date here) as of 2016.
Canada 21.9% as of 2019.
Norway: 16.8% as of 2017
Sweden: 14.3% of its population is foreign born as of 2010.
USA: 14.4% of its population are immigrants as of 2015.
Denmark: 8% as of 2014.
Finland: 7.3% as of 2018.

Just wanted to correct the belief that the Nordic nations are homogenous in their immigration patterns.

This is a current phenomenon.

Look at the Scandinavian countries 40 years ago and you will see very different numbers. The large group of US draft dodgers in Sweden during the Vietnam war were quite exotic

Like the US and other countries with low birth rates, the Scandinavians first let in Poles because of racial similarities, then they started with Afghan refugees in the early 1980s and now admit people from any world war zone. These countries spent vast sums acculturation immigrants but recently gave up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

So why does a multi-cultural society make implementing a welfare state more difficult? I've been kind enough to point out that Nordic countries aren't as monolithic as you thought. (Also, Australia's been multi-cultural since the 1950s and has always been a place for British outcasts. Canada has been just as multi-cultural as we have been, yet seems able to have a welfare state.)

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

So why does a multi-cultural society make implementing a welfare state more difficult? I've been kind enough to point out that Nordic countries aren't as monolithic as you thought. (Also, Australia's been multi-cultural since the 1950s and has always been a place for British outcasts. Canada has been just as multi-cultural as we have been, yet seems able to have a welfare state.)

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

So why does a multi-cultural society make implementing a welfare state more difficult? I've been kind enough to point out that Nordic countries aren't as monolithic as you thought. (Also, Australia's been multi-cultural since the 1950s and has always been a place for British outcasts. Canada has been just as multi-cultural as we have been, yet seems able to have a welfare state.)

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

So why does a multi-cultural society make implementing a welfare state more difficult? I've been kind enough to point out that Nordic countries aren't as monolithic as you thought. (Also, Australia's been multi-cultural since the 1950s and has always been a place for British outcasts. Canada has been just as multi-cultural as we have been, yet seems able to have a welfare state.)

Anonymous wrote:Immigrants are traditionally more motivated to “conform” to whatever country they are joining.

The US is unique in that, unlike other countries who did most of their enslaving and colonizing overseas, we kept it mostly in-house. We have a significant percentage of our population descended from people we historically oppressed. This results in a more “Us Vs. Them” mentality.

Anonymous wrote:

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

So why does a multi-cultural society make implementing a welfare state more difficult? I've been kind enough to point out that Nordic countries aren't as monolithic as you thought. (Also, Australia's been multi-cultural since the 1950s and has always been a place for British outcasts. Canada has been just as multi-cultural as we have been, yet seems able to have a welfare state.)

Australi and Canada have been lovely to their native populations. I believe they’re still uncovering mass graves up north.

Anonymous wrote:

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

So why does a multi-cultural society make implementing a welfare state more difficult? I've been kind enough to point out that Nordic countries aren't as monolithic as you thought. (Also, Australia's been multi-cultural since the 1950s and has always been a place for British outcasts. Canada has been just as multi-cultural as we have been, yet seems able to have a welfare state.)

It’s not so much homogeneity as population. Australia and Canada have populations of 30-40 million people while Scandinavian countries like Norway have a lower population than New York City.

We should be comparing ourselves to countries like Pakistan and Brazil with somewhat similar populations rather than small European or Commonwealth countries. The expression “herding cats” is applicable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

BlueFredneck wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"we're a bunch of f**kin racists" and/or "black people can't be trusted not to be lazy criminals."

I still do not understand why mentioning research on this topic when discussing different cultures makes someone a " f**kin racist" who believes that "black people can't be trusted". Can you please explain that a bit?

You're conflating the two statements which isn't always appropriate. I've seen both sentiments expressed as reasons why Nordic countries can have nice things and we can't. Racism means that we aren't willing to give up some of our resources to benefit people of different races regardless of their personal qualities. The lazy black person trope -- which in fairness could be immigrants or anyone of color -- means that even if we're willing to share our resources, these lazy Others would just bankrupt us by taking without giving. But, very often, these two sentiments are intertwined.

Ok. It’s still unclear to me why you feel that mentioning fact based research on racism/homogeneity in different cultures makes someone racist or someone who believes that black people cant be trusted. Can you explain why you feel this way?

So why does a multi-cultural society make implementing a welfare state more difficult? I've been kind enough to point out that Nordic countries aren't as monolithic as you thought. (Also, Australia's been multi-cultural since the 1950s and has always been a place for British outcasts. Canada has been just as multi-cultural as we have been, yet seems able to have a welfare state.)

It’s not so much homogeneity as population. Australia and Canada have populations of 30-40 million people while Scandinavian countries like Norway have a lower population than New York City.

We should be comparing ourselves to countries like Pakistan and Brazil with somewhat similar populations rather than small European or Commonwealth countries. The expression “herding cats” is applicable.

I don't buy it. We're not seeing much Nordic style social welfare at the state level. Indiana has 6 million people and not a ton of diversity. And, yet, lots of poverty and an incredibly thin social safety net.