Who said there isn't a North-South divide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are VPI kids at the wealthier schools allowed to stay though? I thought they were not.

They're not, and the wealthier schools don't have VPI classrooms for the most part. They have Montessori satellite classrooms, and the Montessori kids can stay for their K year as part of Montessori and then have to return to their home schools for 1st or apply to Drew at 1st. Some may opt to leave before their K year in order to go to their neighborhood school for Kindergarten. Not sure if any data is available about how frequently this occurs, where students aren't completing their final year of preschool Montessori. I think this has been one of the complaints from Montessori advocates, because the classrooms ideally are supposed to have an equal mix of 3-5 year olds, with the 5 year olds being experience in the Montessori method.

Montessori PreKs should not be in the other schools. But APS already maximizes VPI program; therefore Montessori PreKs at least offer more preschool opportunities (theoretically) for lower-income families. APS should either switch to centralized preschool centers or distribute preschools throughout the elementary schools permanently instead of shuffling them around to make room for other things. Hoffman Boston and Campbell should not be half-filled by preschool kids. Balance enrollment across schools and allow for a better balance of preK classes in each - or centralize them. Montessori wants to grow its program. The easiest way for them to do that is to have Montessori "preKs" that are with the Montessori program and not scattered across neighborhood schools.

APS says it prefers to have preschool classes in the neighborhood schools where those kids will be going to kindergarten for "community building" and easier transitioning, etc. But you know what? But their current practices don't do that anyway. Besides, they can transition to a new school just like kids coming from private preschools. I suspect it's just easier for trying to get the parents involved. But, when your kid doesn't stay at the school for K-5 anyway, that's not happening either.

I wish APS would stop treating our kids as pawns.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are VPI kids at the wealthier schools allowed to stay though? I thought they were not.

They're not, and the wealthier schools don't have VPI classrooms for the most part. They have Montessori satellite classrooms, and the Montessori kids can stay for their K year as part of Montessori and then have to return to their home schools for 1st or apply to Drew at 1st. Some may opt to leave before their K year in order to go to their neighborhood school for Kindergarten. Not sure if any data is available about how frequently this occurs, where students aren't completing their final year of preschool Montessori. I think this has been one of the complaints from Montessori advocates, because the classrooms ideally are supposed to have an equal mix of 3-5 year olds, with the 5 year olds being experience in the Montessori method.

Montessori PreKs should not be in the other schools. But APS already maximizes VPI program; therefore Montessori PreKs at least offer more preschool opportunities (theoretically) for lower-income families. APS should either switch to centralized preschool centers or distribute preschools throughout the elementary schools permanently instead of shuffling them around to make room for other things. Hoffman Boston and Campbell should not be half-filled by preschool kids. Balance enrollment across schools and allow for a better balance of preK classes in each - or centralize them. Montessori wants to grow its program. The easiest way for them to do that is to have Montessori "preKs" that are with the Montessori program and not scattered across neighborhood schools.

APS says it prefers to have preschool classes in the neighborhood schools where those kids will be going to kindergarten for "community building" and easier transitioning, etc. But you know what? But their current practices don't do that anyway. Besides, they can transition to a new school just like kids coming from private preschools. I suspect it's just easier for trying to get the parents involved. But, when your kid doesn't stay at the school for K-5 anyway, that's not happening either.

I wish APS would stop treating our kids as pawns.

Centralizing montessori at Henry, including preschool classrooms, would be ideal, but I don't know that there is enough space. About 30 kids got into grades 1-5 at Drew this year, with a waitlist about that long. Among the 1st graders, preschoolers at Drew got 1st preference, then satellite aps preschool montessori kids, then kids who either had no Montessori experience or went to a "private" montessori school. None of that third group was offered a seat; in not sure all the satellite aps preschoolers got in, either.

Here's a interesting question: why are there so many VPI applications to ATS? As in, way more than any other school? ATS had almost 200 applications for 32 seats. The next highest was Campbell with about 150, then claremont, the others are all way less. Is the size of the Vpi waitlist because if kids get in as preschoolers they don't hAve to lottery in later? Is that what's going on?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are VPI kids at the wealthier schools allowed to stay though? I thought they were not.

They're not, and the wealthier schools don't have VPI classrooms for the most part. They have Montessori satellite classrooms, and the Montessori kids can stay for their K year as part of Montessori and then have to return to their home schools for 1st or apply to Drew at 1st. Some may opt to leave before their K year in order to go to their neighborhood school for Kindergarten. Not sure if any data is available about how frequently this occurs, where students aren't completing their final year of preschool Montessori. I think this has been one of the complaints from Montessori advocates, because the classrooms ideally are supposed to have an equal mix of 3-5 year olds, with the 5 year olds being experience in the Montessori method.

This is true- there is a lot of loss in Kindergarten especially outside of Drew. There was a report on this to the school board I think in the spring of 2017. This is one of the hidden costs of Montessori, participants effectively have two kindergarten seats.

I think the VPI classrooms in the option schools work really well. They are a way to ensure diversity in the option schools, and for the most part the students then continue.
I think the VPI classrooms in neighborhood schools are effective to, in the sense that it is improving outcomes for vulnerable preschoolers.

To the extent that the purpose of distributing montessori classrooms is an effort to integrate schools- that is totally ineffective. But I actually don't think that is even the purpose. I think they just scatter montesorri where they have space.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a interesting question: why are there so many VPI applications to ATS? As in, way more than any other school? ATS had almost 200 applications for 32 seats. The next highest was Campbell with about 150, then claremont, the others are all way less. Is the size of the Vpi waitlist because if kids get in as preschoolers they don't hAve to lottery in later? Is that what's going on?

That's interesting- I didn't know that, where are you finding the VPI numbers.
Here is one potential answer, as someone who has applied to and had a student in VPI, when you apply to VPI you rank your choices, and I think you pick 3. It's fairly obvious to include your closest neighborhood school on that list. You also tend to include ATS b/c it is more obvious to go to ATS then to say go to a different neighborhood school.

[Anonymous]

No arlington school should have entering Ks filled with VPI kids, both neighborhood and choice. But, especially not choice. That means the county is deliberately making a school "poor." VPI needs to be spread out across schools. And, schools need to manage enrollment to allow that to happen, especially once Reed comes aboard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are VPI kids at the wealthier schools allowed to stay though? I thought they were not.

They're not, and the wealthier schools don't have VPI classrooms for the most part. They have Montessori satellite classrooms, and the Montessori kids can stay for their K year as part of Montessori and then have to return to their home schools for 1st or apply to Drew at 1st. Some may opt to leave before their K year in order to go to their neighborhood school for Kindergarten. Not sure if any data is available about how frequently this occurs, where students aren't completing their final year of preschool Montessori. I think this has been one of the complaints from Montessori advocates, because the classrooms ideally are supposed to have an equal mix of 3-5 year olds, with the 5 year olds being experience in the Montessori method.

This is true- there is a lot of loss in Kindergarten especially outside of Drew. There was a report on this to the school board I think in the spring of 2017. This is one of the hidden costs of Montessori, participants effectively have two kindergarten seats.

I think the VPI classrooms in the option schools work really well. They are a way to ensure diversity in the option schools, and for the most part the students then continue.
I think the VPI classrooms in neighborhood schools are effective to, in the sense that it is improving outcomes for vulnerable preschoolers.

To the extent that the purpose of distributing montessori classrooms is an effort to integrate schools- that is totally ineffective. But I actually don't think that is even the purpose. I think they just scatter montesorri where they have space.

It's this, they're just putting them where they have space. Which is not great policy. What if they actually balance enrollment during the boundary changes? Then what? Trailers at Henry?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are VPI kids at the wealthier schools allowed to stay though? I thought they were not.

They're not, and the wealthier schools don't have VPI classrooms for the most part. They have Montessori satellite classrooms, and the Montessori kids can stay for their K year as part of Montessori and then have to return to their home schools for 1st or apply to Drew at 1st. Some may opt to leave before their K year in order to go to their neighborhood school for Kindergarten. Not sure if any data is available about how frequently this occurs, where students aren't completing their final year of preschool Montessori. I think this has been one of the complaints from Montessori advocates, because the classrooms ideally are supposed to have an equal mix of 3-5 year olds, with the 5 year olds being experience in the Montessori method.

Montessori PreKs should not be in the other schools. But APS already maximizes VPI program; therefore Montessori PreKs at least offer more preschool opportunities (theoretically) for lower-income families. APS should either switch to centralized preschool centers or distribute preschools throughout the elementary schools permanently instead of shuffling them around to make room for other things. Hoffman Boston and Campbell should not be half-filled by preschool kids. Balance enrollment across schools and allow for a better balance of preK classes in each - or centralize them. Montessori wants to grow its program. The easiest way for them to do that is to have Montessori "preKs" that are with the Montessori program and not scattered across neighborhood schools.

APS says it prefers to have preschool classes in the neighborhood schools where those kids will be going to kindergarten for "community building" and easier transitioning, etc. But you know what? But their current practices don't do that anyway. Besides, they can transition to a new school just like kids coming from private preschools. I suspect it's just easier for trying to get the parents involved. But, when your kid doesn't stay at the school for K-5 anyway, that's not happening either.

I wish APS would stop treating our kids as pawns.

Centralizing montessori at Henry, including preschool classrooms, would be ideal, but I don't know that there is enough space. About 30 kids got into grades 1-5 at Drew this year, with a waitlist about that long. Among the 1st graders, preschoolers at Drew got 1st preference, then satellite aps preschool montessori kids, then kids who either had no Montessori experience or went to a "private" montessori school. None of that third group was offered a seat; in not sure all the satellite aps preschoolers got in, either.

Here's a interesting question: why are there so many VPI applications to ATS? As in, way more than any other school? ATS had almost 200 applications for 32 seats. The next highest was Campbell with about 150, then claremont, the others are all way less. Is the size of the Vpi waitlist because if kids get in as preschoolers they don't hAve to lottery in later? Is that what's going on?

There are likely so many VPI applications to those two schools because of their location close to Carlin Springs' attendance zone. There are many Latino families in the Glencarlyn area that actually DON'T want to attend Carlin Springs and actually DO want their kids in "better" or more diverse schools. Claremont immersion is also very popular and families likely apply there due to a) location and b) getting into immersion - especially when there was geographic preference for Claremont and little chance outside of the preferred neighborhoods getting in.

There just aren't that many areas of significantly concentrated low-income in other parts of the County, like near Jamestown, so they aren't going to have as many applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No arlington school should have entering Ks filled with VPI kids, both neighborhood and choice. But, especially not choice. That means the county is deliberately making a school "poor." VPI needs to be spread out across schools. And, schools need to manage enrollment to allow that to happen, especially once Reed comes aboard.

I really don't understand what you are saying. In terms of choice schools, putting the VPI classrooms at the choice schools ensures that the choice schools better reflect the demographics of the county- it is in fact 'spreading it out.' In terms of the neighborhood VPI classrooms, those go where the kids are. The VPI classrooms at say Carlin Springs, are not increasing the number of FARMS students, those are all students from within the Carlin Springs Boundary. If you were to eliminate VPI at Carlin Springs and make those kids go to Jamestown for preschool, most of them would not go, and those that did go would be back at Carlin Springs for Kindergarten.

[Anonymous]

Except that the choice schools already have more "diversity" than most neighborhood schools. Claremont is just under the title I threshold at 38%. Key is at 41%. Campbell is always at around 55%. Even ATS is at 26%, which is not as much as it needs to be, but respectable. Much more an white parents start to complain.

Sorry, but putting more "diversity" (ATS could use a bit more) will just turn the choice schools into lower performing schools. Campbell does OK, but there are A LOT of supports for those kids there.

The problem is the neighborhood schools' lack of diversity and VPI. Not choice schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a interesting question: why are there so many VPI applications to ATS? As in, way more than any other school? ATS had almost 200 applications for 32 seats. The next highest was Campbell with about 150, then claremont, the others are all way less. Is the size of the Vpi waitlist because if kids get in as preschoolers they don't hAve to lottery in later? Is that what's going on?

That's interesting- I didn't know that, where are you finding the VPI numbers.
Here is one potential answer, as someone who has applied to and had a student in VPI, when you apply to VPI you rank your choices, and I think you pick 3. It's fairly obvious to include your closest neighborhood school on that list. You also tend to include ATS b/c it is more obvious to go to ATS then to say go to a different neighborhood school.

Lottery applications, results are here. Scroll down for tables: https://www.apsva.us/school-options/school-transfer-data/

Another interesting finding: the least in demand schools - those with the fewest number of po seats offered and no waitlist - are the SA schools where presumably many of the kids who benefit most from the program live. They appear to be, at least to some degree, avoiding their own neighborhood schools, too?

[Anonymous]

I don’t think you can include Claremont or key in your choice schools are more diverse argument. They only became true choice schools this year and we don’t have the farms rates for this upcoming fall. The current farms rate reflect at least in the case of key the demographics of the surrounding neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Except that the choice schools already have more "diversity" than most neighborhood schools. Claremont is just under the title I threshold at 38%. Key is at 41%. Campbell is always at around 55%. Even ATS is at 26%, which is not as much as it needs to be, but respectable. Much more an white parents start to complain.

Sorry, but putting more "diversity" (ATS could use a bit more) will just turn the choice schools into lower performing schools. Campbell does OK, but there are A LOT of supports for those kids there.

The problem is the neighborhood schools' lack of diversity and VPI. Not choice schools.

I'm not following you. They aren't adding more VPI classes to option schools. They are already there, they are just maintaining what currently exists, as they should lest each option schools stop reflecting the diversity of the district. As an option school parent, I don't want a less diverse school. It's one of the reasons we preferred the school in the first place. I wonder if putting VPI classrooms at less economically diverse schools and then allowing kids to stay for K-5 would make a difference. I used to think it might, but now I'm just not sure many parents would opt for that, due to distance, and to due to the parents fearing their child would be in the extreme minority and would be easily identifiable as "not from around here," so to speak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a interesting question: why are there so many VPI applications to ATS? As in, way more than any other school? ATS had almost 200 applications for 32 seats. The next highest was Campbell with about 150, then claremont, the others are all way less. Is the size of the Vpi waitlist because if kids get in as preschoolers they don't hAve to lottery in later? Is that what's going on?

That's interesting- I didn't know that, where are you finding the VPI numbers.
Here is one potential answer, as someone who has applied to and had a student in VPI, when you apply to VPI you rank your choices, and I think you pick 3. It's fairly obvious to include your closest neighborhood school on that list. You also tend to include ATS b/c it is more obvious to go to ATS then to say go to a different neighborhood school.

Lottery applications, results are here. Scroll down for tables: https://www.apsva.us/school-options/school-transfer-data/

Another interesting finding: the least in demand schools - those with the fewest number of po seats offered and no waitlist - are the SA schools where presumably many of the kids who benefit most from the program live. They appear to be, at least to some degree, avoiding their own neighborhood schools, too?

So Henry had no waitlist and didn't come near to filling its spots. It's widely considered one of the better S. Arlington neighborhood schools. Also----much (though not all) of the market rate affordable housing in its boundary has disappeared. Randolph and Carlin Springs both didn't go to waitlist either but came much closer to filling to capacity---likely due to the larger population of low income kids in their boundaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a interesting question: why are there so many VPI applications to ATS? As in, way more than any other school? ATS had almost 200 applications for 32 seats. The next highest was Campbell with about 150, then claremont, the others are all way less. Is the size of the Vpi waitlist because if kids get in as preschoolers they don't hAve to lottery in later? Is that what's going on?

That's interesting- I didn't know that, where are you finding the VPI numbers.
Here is one potential answer, as someone who has applied to and had a student in VPI, when you apply to VPI you rank your choices, and I think you pick 3. It's fairly obvious to include your closest neighborhood school on that list. You also tend to include ATS b/c it is more obvious to go to ATS then to say go to a different neighborhood school.

Lottery applications, results are here. Scroll down for tables: https://www.apsva.us/school-options/school-transfer-data/

Another interesting finding: the least in demand schools - those with the fewest number of po seats offered and no waitlist - are the SA schools where presumably many of the kids who benefit most from the program live. They appear to be, at least to some degree, avoiding their own neighborhood schools, too?

So Henry had no waitlist and didn't come near to filling its spots. It's widely considered one of the better S. Arlington neighborhood schools. Also----much (though not all) of the market rate affordable housing in its boundary has disappeared. Randolph and Carlin Springs both didn't go to waitlist either but came much closer to filling to capacity---likely due to the larger population of low income kids in their boundaries.

I wonder f the upcoming boundary changes had something to do with that. I know a few rising K families in the current Henry boundary who are going option because of the possibility that they were going to be rezoned next year. Maybe the VPI families made the same calculation and decided to go option for continuity, so that they could definitely go to K at the school where they did Pre-K? Just a thought.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Here's a interesting question: why are there so many VPI applications to ATS? As in, way more than any other school? ATS had almost 200 applications for 32 seats. The next highest was Campbell with about 150, then claremont, the others are all way less. Is the size of the Vpi waitlist because if kids get in as preschoolers they don't hAve to lottery in later? Is that what's going on?

That's interesting- I didn't know that, where are you finding the VPI numbers.
Here is one potential answer, as someone who has applied to and had a student in VPI, when you apply to VPI you rank your choices, and I think you pick 3. It's fairly obvious to include your closest neighborhood school on that list. You also tend to include ATS b/c it is more obvious to go to ATS then to say go to a different neighborhood school.

Lottery applications, results are here. Scroll down for tables: https://www.apsva.us/school-options/school-transfer-data/

Another interesting finding: the least in demand schools - those with the fewest number of po seats offered and no waitlist - are the SA schools where presumably many of the kids who benefit most from the program live. They appear to be, at least to some degree, avoiding their own neighborhood schools, too?

So Henry had no waitlist and didn't come near to filling its spots. It's widely considered one of the better S. Arlington neighborhood schools. Also----much (though not all) of the market rate affordable housing in its boundary has disappeared. Randolph and Carlin Springs both didn't go to waitlist either but came much closer to filling to capacity---likely due to the larger population of low income kids in their boundaries.

I wonder f the upcoming boundary changes had something to do with that. I know a few rising K families in the current Henry boundary who are going option because of the possibility that they were going to be rezoned next year. Maybe the VPI families made the same calculation and decided to go option for continuity, so that they could definitely go to K at the school where they did Pre-K? Just a thought.

Possibly. Hoffman Boston had similar numbers to Henry but could have been part of the same issue. I think that the amount of market rate and CAF units in a boundary probably comes into play though.