What's the difference between dual language and immersion porgrams?

[Anonymous]

I've seen both described, but what what are the practical differences? Is one better than another?

[Anonymous]

Quickly:

In the strictest terms dual-language immersion is a student body made up of half native speakers of language A and half native speakers of language B. Then half the instruction is in language A and the other half in language B. This is considered the best model for gaining fluency and academic ability in two languages...and the one that Oyster uses in some form in their lower grades.

Immersion is a full day in language A with an entire classroom of non-native speakers of that language with the goal of fluency for all in language A. The problem with this model is a lack of native speakers as "models". The students pick up on the mistakes/inaccuracies of their fellow learners with the only person speaking 100% correctly with a proper accent is the teacher. It is a less-desireacle model for language acquisition in two languages.

Every school probably has their own twists and takes on these models and it would be good to hear further from folks actually in these set-ups to hear how it is done at their school

[Anonymous]

Dual immersion is about immersion in instruction in two languages with the aim of learning to speak and write and read in both languages. There are dual immersion programs were all the students are English speakers learning a target language, like Mandarin or even Spanish. It need not be a full day in one language and then the other. It can be a half day or alternating classes. It absolutely need not be made up of half native speakers and half the other.

Full immersion is all instruction in one language, with the exception of English class and, where applicable, a third foreign language.

[Anonymous]

When is it too late to introduce this to a child? Does a child have to begin this in Pk or K or will a child be successful begining at any grade?

[Anonymous]

Great question. It gets harder every year. The last year I saw someone enter a duel language program with no previous immersion was Grade 4. The earlier the better. Every child is different, of course.

[Anonymous]

How long does it take to aquire fluency at that late admission? Will a child suffer in other subjects as a result?

[Anonymous]

Yu Ying allows children to join in Grade 2 with no prior Chinese exposure. No one can enter in Grade 3 or later.

My daughter started this year in Grade 2 and had a relatively easy transition for 2 unique reasons. (1) about half of the class was new to Yu Ying due to an underenrolled Grade 1 in the prior year (which was the school's first year) and some attrition, and (2) the continuing Grade 1 students had only studied Chinese for 1 previous school year. I think it would be much more difficult for new students in this coming year to join a Grade 2 class with primarily returning students who have already studied Chinese for two years (Grades K & 1).

I would think a 4th grader entering with no prior exposure to the other language would have a really really tough time, and I would hesitate to place a child into such a classroom. It happens in this city when someone moves inbounds for Oyster at that grade level, so Oyster would have some experience to relate. I also think the Elsie Stokes fills slots in higher grades via lottery, with no requirement for previous language exposure (French & Spanish).

good luck

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Quickly:

In the strictest terms dual-language immersion is a student body made up of half native speakers of language A and half native speakers of language B. Then half the instruction is in language A and the other half in language B. This is considered the best model for gaining fluency and academic ability in two languages...and the one that Oyster uses in some form in their lower grades.

Immersion is a full day in language A with an entire classroom of non-native speakers of that language with the goal of fluency for all in language A. The problem with this model is a lack of native speakers as "models". The students pick up on the mistakes/inaccuracies of their fellow learners with the only person speaking 100% correctly with a proper accent is the teacher. It is a less-desireacle model for language acquisition in two languages.

Every school probably has their own twists and takes on these models and it would be good to hear further from folks actually in these set-ups to hear how it is done at their school

I'd be very careful about that sort of generalization. We have a child at Yu Ying and have not found that to be the case at all. All the Chinese teachers are native speakers from either China or Taiwan, and the children are all getting excellent models for pronunciation, grammar, tones, etc. I don't think they're getting flawed models in Chinese any more than I think they're getting flawed models in English. The majority of language immersion programs in the United States are not dual language and are nonetheless successful. It's nice where you can do it, but it hasn't proven to be at all necessary.

[Anonymous]

There is no "least desirable" model. 9:20's description is offbase in that regard. There is a French immersion program in Montgomery County and half the students are not native speakers. Oyster's model was born out of its demographics 35 years ago, when Spanish speakers came to school not speaking much English. Today most Spanish dominant students at Oyster are bilingual. The Oyster model not the end all and be all of bilingual learning.

As for when it's too late, at Oyster the problem with entering later is that many students are advanced in Spanish, because they speak Spanish at home, so it's hard for some students. A school like Yu Ying would be different.

[Anonymous]

I'm a second language teacher. Here's the problem I have, conceptually, with the dual-language model.

If it the first year of instruction, and half the class speaks fluent Spanish, and the other half speaks close to no Spanish -- then the teacher teaching Math in Spanish has a bit of a problem. She can speak fluent Spanish, and teach to half her class but go completely over the head of the other half; or she can speak very simple Spanish, supplementing with gentures and pictures, and repeating herself over and over -- and reach those who speak no Spanish -- but the kids who already speak Spanish wil find the class quite easy.

The next class,Science, might be taught in English, but the same problems will ensue. Instruction will never be geared toward the abilities of both groups at the same time, at least not in the early years.

So I can't see how this is a good model. I much prefer the language immersion model -- where all the kids in kindergarten enter not speaking any Spanish -- so they are all at about the same level -- and the teacher can focus on beginner Spanish all year long.

[Anonymous]

12:51 Have you taught in a duel-immersion program? You can't exclude Spanish speakers. Really! At a school like Oyster, the problem with selling full immersion is parents of Spanish speakers want their children to perfect their English and parents of English speakers are afraid their children are going to lag on their cohorts in English-only programs. Too many subsets with their own priorities makes a year or two of full immersion followed by dual immersion a tough sell. WIS does full immersion in the early years, then moves to dual immersion.

[Anonymous]

Every Spanish language program is different in DCPS and charters, no matter what they say or how much they use the word "immersion". You have to visit schools to see what environment you prefer. The language of the playground and cafeteria will pretty much always be English, so take the claim of 50/50 bilingualism (aka dual language) with a grain of salt.

If your child is young and has no language background or other languages in the home, then you might want start with immersion in Spanish only.
Spanish-only all day immersion programs can be found in preschool at Tyler, Bancroft (new this year) and private schools WIS and Communikids.

If child is older, bear in mind that there are only 2 middle school bilingual options at the moment in DC, Oyster and WIS. And WIS is the only high school.

Try not to focus too much on what "research" says. Focus on a school you like and learn the language with your child if you want them to retain it and enjoy it.