TJ Discrimination Case

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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


+1 Black and brown kids have no business attending TJ


Pack it up, guys, the racists have come out to play.


What's racist about wanting to return to the old policy that conservatives pine for where the number of black students was so low that it couldn't be reported? Before politics got involved, the school didn't have to deal with any of these issues, hopefully Asra can win a seat on the school board and right the ship
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


The problem with this framing is that it would allow any majority group in a particular context to challenge an effort to address racial discrimination as showing “animosity” to the majority racial group prohibiting a change in policy. Any time an organization changes its policies to address disparate treatment, it does so with the implicit understanding that it cannot increase the percentage representation of one group without reducing the percentage representation of another group.

To take it out of this context, let’s imagine a fire department that requires as part of its hiring process at least one recommendation from an existing member of the department. If historically the department has been all white, that is very likely to continue to be the case in substantial part because people tend to give favor to those who are like them. To address this issue, the department wants to do away with the internal recommendation requirement because it has had to turn away a lot of highly qualified black candidates because they don’t have the recommendation. Doing away with the recommendation requirement is racially neutral, but can always be framed as motivated by racial animus because the intent is to make it easier for non-white candidates to apply and be hired, which necessarily will mean fewer white candidates can be hired.

If the coalition were to prevail on its legal theory, it would effectively mean organizations would be locked into systemically racist policies and procedures because any effect to change them would be deemed racially discriminatory.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


Ha! Are they actually nominating him? He couldn’t even run the TJ PTSA for a few months before getting kicked out. Good luck trying to get him on the School Board.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


U.S. District Court factually found Asian students were illegally discriminated and that such action violated the U.S. Constitution. Misrepresenting a million times won't change this fact. Just say I hope and pray for the Court of Appeal's decision you agree with.

In addition, you neglected to mention all the statements and actions by the TJ principal over the past several years that were clearly hostile towards Asian TJ students and that some SB members AGREED with the observation that some of the actions were 'anti-asian'. So, it was not just saying such a statement but also AGREEING to such statements.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


U.S. District Court factually found Asian students were illegally discriminated and that such action violated the U.S. Constitution. Misrepresenting a million times won't change this fact. Just say I hope and pray for the Court of Appeal's decision you agree with.

In addition, you neglected to mention all the statements and actions by the TJ principal over the past several years that were clearly hostile towards Asian TJ students and that some SB members AGREED with the observation that some of the actions were 'anti-asian'. So, it was not just saying such a statement but also AGREEING to such statements.


You just took their post trying to address specific claims and replied to it with the same claims they were trying to address.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


It strains credulity to suggest the Board members would just exchange messages that the words and actions of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, unless they had something of a guilty conscience about what they were doing.

And of course the current process was not crafted on a "blank slate," when Brabrand expressly stated that the key driver of the admissions change was the George Floyd incident. It's not like they objectively sat back and asked themselves how they could craft a more efficient process or one designed to identify more qualified kids. They rushed through a process that they convinced themselves would serve "equity" goals, with multiple Board members stating that they believed the process had been rushed and less than satisfactory. And then, once approved, some Board members admitted that they didn't even understand the details of what they'd just approved, such as whether the 1.5% middle school quotas would be based on the schools to which students were zoned or instead those which they were attending.

Those who panned Judge Hilton's decision are, for the most part, far from "nonpartisan," but instead were drawn from the same stable of commentators on whom the liberal media regularly draws upon to comment on judicial cases. At this point, most believe that the Fourth Circuit, with its current composition, will overturn Hilton's decision, but that the Fourth Circuit's decision will also be appealed and may ultimately get reconsidered by the more conservative Supreme Court.

And if you want to refer to Harry Jackson as a "goon," that is certainly your prerogative, although you might be kinder, given that he's one of the very few Black men ever to have run or considered a run for the FCPS School Board. But, in that case, let's also not forget that the current Board members include:

* A dude without a college degree who found a way to waste over $35 million in county money on an unnecessary elementary school in Dunn Loring (Frisch);

* A member repeatedly on the record as having used the r-word when frustrated or not getting her way (Keys Gamarra);

* A wealthy hypocrite who ran as a Democrat, but since has done nothing but protect the interests of the county's wealthiest in Great Falls and narrowly escaped a recall (Tholen);

* A member who got into an unnecessary and avoidable confrontation with police and then, once in office, made anti-Semitic statements and urged students to wage "jihad" (Omeish);

* A cringe-inducing narcissist who has used her seat on the School Board to promote her son's musical career (Sizemore Heizer);

* A member who has failed for years to address the severe overcrowding at a high school in her district (Pekarsky); and

* A woman who claimed her appreciation for Asian culture stemmed from having eaten at a Benihana steak house as a child and kept FCPS closed for many months while enrolling her own kids in a learning pod (Meren); and

* A host of other members who have brought little to the table for years, such as Corbett-Sanders and Derenak-Kaufax.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


It strains credulity to suggest the Board members would just exchange messages that the words and actions of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, unless they had something of a guilty conscience about what they were doing.

And of course the current process was not crafted on a "blank slate," when Brabrand expressly stated that the key driver of the admissions change was the George Floyd incident. It's not like they objectively sat back and asked themselves how they could craft a more efficient process or one designed to identify more qualified kids. They rushed through a process that they convinced themselves would serve "equity" goals, with multiple Board members stating that they believed the process had been rushed and less than satisfactory. And then, once approved, some Board members admitted that they didn't even understand the details of what they'd just approved, such as whether the 1.5% middle school quotas would be based on the schools to which students were zoned or instead those which they were attending.

Those who panned Judge Hilton's decision are, for the most part, far from "nonpartisan," but instead were drawn from the same stable of commentators on whom the liberal media regularly draws upon to comment on judicial cases. At this point, most believe that the Fourth Circuit, with its current composition, will overturn Hilton's decision, but that the Fourth Circuit's decision will also be appealed and may ultimately get reconsidered by the more conservative Supreme Court.

And if you want to refer to Harry Jackson as a "goon," that is certainly your prerogative, although you might be kinder, given that he's one of the very few Black men ever to have run or considered a run for the FCPS School Board. But, in that case, let's also not forget that the current Board members include:

* A dude without a college degree who found a way to waste over $35 million in county money on an unnecessary elementary school in Dunn Loring (Frisch);

* A member repeatedly on the record as having used the r-word when frustrated or not getting her way (Keys Gamarra);

* A wealthy hypocrite who ran as a Democrat, but since has done nothing but protect the interests of the county's wealthiest in Great Falls and narrowly escaped a recall (Tholen);

* A member who got into an unnecessary and avoidable confrontation with police and then, once in office, made anti-Semitic statements and urged students to wage "jihad" (Omeish);

* A cringe-inducing narcissist who has used her seat on the School Board to promote her son's musical career (Sizemore Heizer);

* A member who has failed for years to address the severe overcrowding at a high school in her district (Pekarsky); and

* A woman who claimed her appreciation for Asian culture stemmed from having eaten at a Benihana steak house as a child and kept FCPS closed for many months while enrolling her own kids in a learning pod (Meren); and

* A host of other members who have brought little to the table for years, such as Corbett-Sanders and Derenak-Kaufax.


Huh, when you put it that way... Harry Jackson got kicked from the TJ PTSA for using its email lists to promote his leadership seminars. Guess he'll fit right in.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


It strains credulity to suggest the Board members would just exchange messages that the words and actions of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, unless they had something of a guilty conscience about what they were doing.

And of course the current process was not crafted on a "blank slate," when Brabrand expressly stated that the key driver of the admissions change was the George Floyd incident. It's not like they objectively sat back and asked themselves how they could craft a more efficient process or one designed to identify more qualified kids. They rushed through a process that they convinced themselves would serve "equity" goals, with multiple Board members stating that they believed the process had been rushed and less than satisfactory. And then, once approved, some Board members admitted that they didn't even understand the details of what they'd just approved, such as whether the 1.5% middle school quotas would be based on the schools to which students were zoned or instead those which they were attending.

Those who panned Judge Hilton's decision are, for the most part, far from "nonpartisan," but instead were drawn from the same stable of commentators on whom the liberal media regularly draws upon to comment on judicial cases. At this point, most believe that the Fourth Circuit, with its current composition, will overturn Hilton's decision, but that the Fourth Circuit's decision will also be appealed and may ultimately get reconsidered by the more conservative Supreme Court.

And if you want to refer to Harry Jackson as a "goon," that is certainly your prerogative, although you might be kinder, given that he's one of the very few Black men ever to have run or considered a run for the FCPS School Board. But, in that case, let's also not forget that the current Board members include:

* A dude without a college degree who found a way to waste over $35 million in county money on an unnecessary elementary school in Dunn Loring (Frisch);

* A member repeatedly on the record as having used the r-word when frustrated or not getting her way (Keys Gamarra);

* A wealthy hypocrite who ran as a Democrat, but since has done nothing but protect the interests of the county's wealthiest in Great Falls and narrowly escaped a recall (Tholen);

* A member who got into an unnecessary and avoidable confrontation with police and then, once in office, made anti-Semitic statements and urged students to wage "jihad" (Omeish);

* A cringe-inducing narcissist who has used her seat on the School Board to promote her son's musical career (Sizemore Heizer);

* A member who has failed for years to address the severe overcrowding at a high school in her district (Pekarsky); and

* A woman who claimed her appreciation for Asian culture stemmed from having eaten at a Benihana steak house as a child and kept FCPS closed for many months while enrolling her own kids in a learning pod (Meren); and

* A host of other members who have brought little to the table for years, such as Corbett-Sanders and Derenak-Kaufax.


Huh, when you put it that way... Harry Jackson got kicked from the TJ PTSA for using its email lists to promote his leadership seminars. Guess he'll fit right in.


The glass house the current Democrats on the SB inhabit is plenty big.
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


It strains credulity to suggest the Board members would just exchange messages that the words and actions of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, unless they had something of a guilty conscience about what they were doing.

And of course the current process was not crafted on a "blank slate," when Brabrand expressly stated that the key driver of the admissions change was the George Floyd incident. It's not like they objectively sat back and asked themselves how they could craft a more efficient process or one designed to identify more qualified kids. They rushed through a process that they convinced themselves would serve "equity" goals, with multiple Board members stating that they believed the process had been rushed and less than satisfactory. And then, once approved, some Board members admitted that they didn't even understand the details of what they'd just approved, such as whether the 1.5% middle school quotas would be based on the schools to which students were zoned or instead those which they were attending.

Those who panned Judge Hilton's decision are, for the most part, far from "nonpartisan," but instead were drawn from the same stable of commentators on whom the liberal media regularly draws upon to comment on judicial cases. At this point, most believe that the Fourth Circuit, with its current composition, will overturn Hilton's decision, but that the Fourth Circuit's decision will also be appealed and may ultimately get reconsidered by the more conservative Supreme Court.

And if you want to refer to Harry Jackson as a "goon," that is certainly your prerogative, although you might be kinder, given that he's one of the very few Black men ever to have run or considered a run for the FCPS School Board. But, in that case, let's also not forget that the current Board members include:

* A dude without a college degree who found a way to waste over $35 million in county money on an unnecessary elementary school in Dunn Loring (Frisch);

* A member repeatedly on the record as having used the r-word when frustrated or not getting her way (Keys Gamarra);

* A wealthy hypocrite who ran as a Democrat, but since has done nothing but protect the interests of the county's wealthiest in Great Falls and narrowly escaped a recall (Tholen);

* A member who got into an unnecessary and avoidable confrontation with police and then, once in office, made anti-Semitic statements and urged students to wage "jihad" (Omeish);

* A cringe-inducing narcissist who has used her seat on the School Board to promote her son's musical career (Sizemore Heizer);

* A member who has failed for years to address the severe overcrowding at a high school in her district (Pekarsky); and

* A woman who claimed her appreciation for Asian culture stemmed from having eaten at a Benihana steak house as a child and kept FCPS closed for many months while enrolling her own kids in a learning pod (Meren); and

* A host of other members who have brought little to the table for years, such as Corbett-Sanders and Derenak-Kaufax.


Huh, when you put it that way... Harry Jackson got kicked from the TJ PTSA for using its email lists to promote his leadership seminars. Guess he'll fit right in.


The glass house the current Democrats on the SB inhabit is plenty big.


For sure. Seriously, though, my instinct is that if you put Jackson on there as well, he'll just bring a big bag of boulders into the glass house and start playing shot-put with them, and then you've got no house at all. We really need better candidates for school board around here.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


The problem with this framing is that it would allow any majority group in a particular context to challenge an effort to address racial discrimination as showing “animosity” to the majority racial group prohibiting a change in policy. Any time an organization changes its policies to address disparate treatment, it does so with the implicit understanding that it cannot increase the percentage representation of one group without reducing the percentage representation of another group.

To take it out of this context, let’s imagine a fire department that requires as part of its hiring process at least one recommendation from an existing member of the department. If historically the department has been all white, that is very likely to continue to be the case in substantial part because people tend to give favor to those who are like them. To address this issue, the department wants to do away with the internal recommendation requirement because it has had to turn away a lot of highly qualified black candidates because they don’t have the recommendation. Doing away with the recommendation requirement is racially neutral, but can always be framed as motivated by racial animus because the intent is to make it easier for non-white candidates to apply and be hired, which necessarily will mean fewer white candidates can be hired.

If the coalition were to prevail on its legal theory, it would effectively mean organizations would be locked into systemically racist policies and procedures because any effect to change them would be deemed racially discriminatory.


That's the reason coalition for TJ framed the issue the way they did
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


It strains credulity to suggest the Board members would just exchange messages that the words and actions of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, unless they had something of a guilty conscience about what they were doing.

And of course the current process was not crafted on a "blank slate," when Brabrand expressly stated that the key driver of the admissions change was the George Floyd incident. It's not like they objectively sat back and asked themselves how they could craft a more efficient process or one designed to identify more qualified kids. They rushed through a process that they convinced themselves would serve "equity" goals, with multiple Board members stating that they believed the process had been rushed and less than satisfactory. And then, once approved, some Board members admitted that they didn't even understand the details of what they'd just approved, such as whether the 1.5% middle school quotas would be based on the schools to which students were zoned or instead those which they were attending.

Those who panned Judge Hilton's decision are, for the most part, far from "nonpartisan," but instead were drawn from the same stable of commentators on whom the liberal media regularly draws upon to comment on judicial cases. At this point, most believe that the Fourth Circuit, with its current composition, will overturn Hilton's decision, but that the Fourth Circuit's decision will also be appealed and may ultimately get reconsidered by the more conservative Supreme Court.

And if you want to refer to Harry Jackson as a "goon," that is certainly your prerogative, although you might be kinder, given that he's one of the very few Black men ever to have run or considered a run for the FCPS School Board. But, in that case, let's also not forget that the current Board members include:

* A dude without a college degree who found a way to waste over $35 million in county money on an unnecessary elementary school in Dunn Loring (Frisch);

* A member repeatedly on the record as having used the r-word when frustrated or not getting her way (Keys Gamarra);

* A wealthy hypocrite who ran as a Democrat, but since has done nothing but protect the interests of the county's wealthiest in Great Falls and narrowly escaped a recall (Tholen);

* A member who got into an unnecessary and avoidable confrontation with police and then, once in office, made anti-Semitic statements and urged students to wage "jihad" (Omeish);

* A cringe-inducing narcissist who has used her seat on the School Board to promote her son's musical career (Sizemore Heizer);

* A member who has failed for years to address the severe overcrowding at a high school in her district (Pekarsky); and

* A woman who claimed her appreciation for Asian culture stemmed from having eaten at a Benihana steak house as a child and kept FCPS closed for many months while enrolling her own kids in a learning pod (Meren); and

* A host of other members who have brought little to the table for years, such as Corbett-Sanders and Derenak-Kaufax.


Huh, when you put it that way... Harry Jackson got kicked from the TJ PTSA for using its email lists to promote his leadership seminars. Guess he'll fit right in.


The glass house the current Democrats on the SB inhabit is plenty big.


For sure. Seriously, though, my instinct is that if you put Jackson on there as well, he'll just bring a big bag of boulders into the glass house and start playing shot-put with them, and then you've got no house at all. We really need better candidates for school board around here.


No house is better than a toxic house.
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


It strains credulity to suggest the Board members would just exchange messages that the words and actions of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, unless they had something of a guilty conscience about what they were doing.

And of course the current process was not crafted on a "blank slate," when Brabrand expressly stated that the key driver of the admissions change was the George Floyd incident. It's not like they objectively sat back and asked themselves how they could craft a more efficient process or one designed to identify more qualified kids. They rushed through a process that they convinced themselves would serve "equity" goals, with multiple Board members stating that they believed the process had been rushed and less than satisfactory. And then, once approved, some Board members admitted that they didn't even understand the details of what they'd just approved, such as whether the 1.5% middle school quotas would be based on the schools to which students were zoned or instead those which they were attending.

Those who panned Judge Hilton's decision are, for the most part, far from "nonpartisan," but instead were drawn from the same stable of commentators on whom the liberal media regularly draws upon to comment on judicial cases. At this point, most believe that the Fourth Circuit, with its current composition, will overturn Hilton's decision, but that the Fourth Circuit's decision will also be appealed and may ultimately get reconsidered by the more conservative Supreme Court.

And if you want to refer to Harry Jackson as a "goon," that is certainly your prerogative, although you might be kinder, given that he's one of the very few Black men ever to have run or considered a run for the FCPS School Board. But, in that case, let's also not forget that the current Board members include:

* A dude without a college degree who found a way to waste over $35 million in county money on an unnecessary elementary school in Dunn Loring (Frisch);

* A member repeatedly on the record as having used the r-word when frustrated or not getting her way (Keys Gamarra);

* A wealthy hypocrite who ran as a Democrat, but since has done nothing but protect the interests of the county's wealthiest in Great Falls and narrowly escaped a recall (Tholen);

* A member who got into an unnecessary and avoidable confrontation with police and then, once in office, made anti-Semitic statements and urged students to wage "jihad" (Omeish);

* A cringe-inducing narcissist who has used her seat on the School Board to promote her son's musical career (Sizemore Heizer);

* A member who has failed for years to address the severe overcrowding at a high school in her district (Pekarsky); and

* A woman who claimed her appreciation for Asian culture stemmed from having eaten at a Benihana steak house as a child and kept FCPS closed for many months while enrolling her own kids in a learning pod (Meren); and

* A host of other members who have brought little to the table for years, such as Corbett-Sanders and Derenak-Kaufax.


Huh, when you put it that way... Harry Jackson got kicked from the TJ PTSA for using its email lists to promote his leadership seminars. Guess he'll fit right in.


The glass house the current Democrats on the SB inhabit is plenty big.


For sure. Seriously, though, my instinct is that if you put Jackson on there as well, he'll just bring a big bag of boulders into the glass house and start playing shot-put with them, and then you've got no house at all. We really need better candidates for school board around here.


No house is better than a toxic house.


...unless 178,000 kids depend on the house.
Anonymous
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Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


U.S. District Court factually found Asian students were illegally discriminated and that such action violated the U.S. Constitution. Misrepresenting a million times won't change this fact. Just say I hope and pray for the Court of Appeal's decision you agree with.

In addition, you neglected to mention all the statements and actions by the TJ principal over the past several years that were clearly hostile towards Asian TJ students and that some SB members AGREED with the observation that some of the actions were 'anti-asian'. So, it was not just saying such a statement but also AGREEING to such statements.


1) With respect to the bolded, no such statements exist. At all.

2) With respect to what follows the bolded, the SB members’ texts explicitly referenced the perception of the comments and not the comments themselves. Try again.
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Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Anecdotally, TJ has not been selecting the top students within a school, who would make the most use of the advanced classes.
I should say FCPS is not selecting the top students, as my understanding is TJ doesn't handle the admissions.


That is incorrect only the top 1.5% of students are selected from each school.


The top according to their scoring, which unfortunately doesn't do a good job of identifying the top students.


It absolutely does identify the top students. The old system just identified those who could afford to buy the test. This is vastly better.


True but I like to come up with an alternate definition of merit that suits my preferred outcome.


A system for a regional school that assigns a minimum percentage of seats to every middle school, including schools that don't have AAP programs and have few LLIV-eligible students, and then relies on more subjective factors might be more geographically diverse but is definitely not going to identify the top students in the region and may not even identify the top students at an individual school.


This is the real challenge facing FCPS moving forward.

There isn't really a good argument to stop with the middle school allocation process, and that has created wonderful new diversity in the hallways and in each individual classroom. The culture of TJ remains alive and well in the face of individuals outside of the community who seek to destroy it.

But there is a serious question regarding whether or not the current admissions process is actually identifying the students who will contribute the most to the educational community of the school. The previous process certainly did not - it merely identified who was most likely to score well on college entrance exams - but there's not a whole lot of evidence that the new process does either.

Given that we've established that standardized exams are occlusive to the process of evaluating students, the best answer seems to be a re-imagined teacher recommendation form that asks teachers to compare students to one another within their respective classrooms and offers them the opportunity to write on behalf of or against a very small group of students.

Middle school teachers know who the students are in their building who most belong at TJ through a combination of aptitude for the material and dedication to the collaborative educational process and they should be afforded the opportunity to weigh in on the matter.


I would strongly suggest you education yourself on bias in the identification of gifted students.


Sure. Only been around them for my entire life.

But again, we’re not just talking about gifted students here - we’re talking about students who would make the strongest and most positive total impacts to the TJ community as a group, rather than as individuals.



It is has been empirically established that Asians are rated relatively lower on “group contribution” at Harvard and other places. The Supreme Court will decide whether these proxies for discrimination will pass muster.


Of course, but fortunately race isn't a factor for TJ admissions since it's a race blind process so the SCOTUS decision is irrelevant.


It was designed and implemented to reduce Asian students at TJ. We won't have to wait long for SCOTUs to tell us.


I wouldn’t hold your breath since the case isn’t even before SCOTUS.


The legality of use of 'race' for public and private school is before the SCOTUS! SCOTUS' decision will be binding on all private and public schools in the US.


It won’t necessarily be clear how these decisions apply, if at all, to an admissions policy like the new TJ admissions policy that on its face is race-neutral.


We have a US District Court's factual finding that there was a racial discrimination that was unconstitutional and no Court has reversed that ruling. Pretty clear.


No court has reversed it, but a higher court quickly invalidated its order and the activist Supreme Court declined to intervene. Pretty strong statements and part of the reason that the District Court judge hasn’t been promoted in 40 years on the bench.


Actually, The 4th Circuit Court of Appeals has NOT ruled on the appeal and they merely stayed the implementation of the District Court's Order and the SCOTUS has decided not to intervene in the case yet and we will have to see what happens at the Circuit Court of Appeals. The Harvard case will impact the eventual ruling by the Circuit Court of Appeals since they are legally bound by the SCOTUS' decisions! The US District Court's Order stands period.


If their order stood, the Admissions process for the Class of 2027, which is currently underway, wouldn’t be allowed to proceed. The stay, however temporary it is, will remain in place until the same three-judge panel that implemented the stay reverses the ruling.

Harvard and UNC will have no bearing on TJ because those schools use race directly in the admissions process. FCPS, despite a lot of rather obvious misinformation here, does not with respect to TJ.


It's misinformation for you to say the district court ruling's no longer "stands." It has simply been stayed by the Fourth Circuit pending appeal, which is typical. Given the fact that the current SCOTUS is an activist conservative court, some expected the Court to intervene and overturn the stay, but it declined to do so at this juncture (which again is typical).

It's also not accurate to say the Harvard and UNC cases will have "no bearing" on TJ. Even though those schools, unlike FCPS, use race directly in their admissions processes, there may be language in those decisions that affect how the lower courts ultimately decide to address the TJ case.

Finally, one should not lose sight of the fact that the AG investigation into potential violations of the Virginia Human Rights Act will be a distinct matter from the case alleging a violation of the U.S. Constitution. Even if FCPS is found not to have violated the Constitution in the federal case, FCPS may yet be found to have violated the VHRA, which could give rise to sanctions on FCPS.

Short version: FCPS is going to have a lot on its plate to defend when it comes to TJ for a long time.


DP. You are grasping at straws here.


So you wish. In case you haven't noticed, FCPS hasn't been doing too well in the courts on many fronts lately.


They're winning on this one.


No, they lost at the District Court level and we are waiting for the Court of Appeals to rule on the merits.


The only impact of FCPS having "lost" anything to this point in this mess is that the Class of 2026 was seated somewhat later than it should have been because of the delay caused by the initial, since-stayed ruling.

The Coalition has won literally zero in terms of action items. That's great for them that they've gotten a sympathetic state government to engage in an investigation, but the investigation is going to turn up a clerical error.


The state AG investigation is examining both (1) the change in admissions policy and (2) the delayed notification to recipients of Letters of Commendation.

Whatever it finds, it will be more than a "clerical error" relating to the latter. It doesn't help your cause to misrepresent the scope of the state investigation.


This is just another GOP goose chase that will yield nothing but it will help rally Youngkin's extreme far-right base.


The issue with the change in admissions policy is that the policy is race-neutral on its face, but animated by animosity towards Asian kids and White politicians thinking they can curry favor with Blacks and Hispanic voters by treating Asian kids not as individuals but as members of an “over-represented” group and throwing them under the bus.

That’s a tough issue to address legally. If you think the current admissions policy would have been acceptable if crafted on a blank slate, without the factual record indicating the racial hostility towards Asians, then what is the path forward? It feels like judicial overreach to lock FCPS into its prior admissions policy, but a bit of a farce to tell FCPS to go back to the drawing board, in which case FCPS could re-adopt its current policy with the School Board members presumably under strict instructions not to admit the anti-Asian bias, call TJ with an Asian super-majority “toxic,” or the like.

So at some level it does all feel more political than legal, but it’s not just the “extreme far-right base” that will look at this and be appalled by the behavior of the School Board and past administrators like Brabrand. It seems the real goal is to effect change in the governance of FCPS and, on that score, the conservatives may yet lose a battle but win a war.


There isn't a factual record indicating racial hostility towards Asians. There is a factual record of School Board members exchanging messages of concern that the actions and words of Brabrand and the Board could be interpreted as anti-Asian, which is a very different matter. And yeah, Brabrand 100% goofed his way through this when he should have left the communication of the new policy completely in the hands of the Admissions Office, who is actually trained to deal with stuff like this.

Like it or not, the current admissions process was indeed crafted on a blank slate. There are almost no tangible aspects of the former process in the new process, apart from the method of collecting applications and on some level, the Student Portrait/Information Sheet... but even that is evaluated differently. They crafted an entire new process with a significant eye towards being able to withstand legal scrutiny, once the old poorly-conceived Merit Lottery proposal went by the wayside (thank goodness). And they did so successfully, notwithstanding Judge Hilton's hilariously erroneous decision that has been broadly panned by nonpartisan legal analysts.

It's possible that the conservatives in Fairfax County may screw up what should be a glorious opportunity to gain a few seats on the School Board with the goons that they're presently looking at nominating. If Harry Jackson is the best that they can do in the Hunter Mill District, with all of the skeletons in his closet that haven't even come to light yet... it's going to be a very sad November for the wildly out-of-touch Fairfax GOP.


U.S. District Court factually found Asian students were illegally discriminated and that such action violated the U.S. Constitution. Misrepresenting a million times won't change this fact. Just say I hope and pray for the Court of Appeal's decision you agree with.

In addition, you neglected to mention all the statements and actions by the TJ principal over the past several years that were clearly hostile towards Asian TJ students and that some SB members AGREED with the observation that some of the actions were 'anti-asian'. So, it was not just saying such a statement but also AGREEING to such statements.


1) With respect to the bolded, no such statements exist. At all.

2) With respect to what follows the bolded, the SB members’ texts explicitly referenced the perception of the comments and not the comments themselves. Try again.


There were comments leading up to the change by people other than the beleaguered Bonitatibus that also gave rise to the messages exchanged among School Board members that the Board's actions could be perceived as anti-Asian.

Again, not even people as dense as some the members of this School Board speculate idly about public perceptions of their actions without some factual basis for their concerns.

To keep implying that the School Board went about the process for changing the admissions process properly, and that the new process was in fact adopted on a blank slate, is only the type of argument that a lawyer for FCPS or a shill for the FCDC (which endorsed the current SB members) might make. It doesn't align with reality. Whether or not the conduct ultimately is found to violate the Constitution has yet to be determined, but the School Board has already lost in the "court of public opinion" in some circles, and trying to sugar coat what a nakedly political decision the admissions change was is not going to help in those venues.
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