Gifted but meh student?

[Anonymous]

I am surprised you didn’t get a diagnosis. Everyone I know has gotten one when evaluated for adhd. Did he test at age 7? That is young so maybe the results were invalid. Also it was more than just a WISC, right?

Nothing you’ve written points anywhere close to him being a bored genius. He doesn’t sound like he’s doing any genius things. He would be reading at a high school level. Interested in a subject at an adult level. Doing advanced math...he also doesn’t sound bored.

He sounds like a very normal 7yo. Utterly normal.

His second grade teacher probably has 15 other kids just like him in class wrt work ethic and motivation. School is a weird mix of being hard and easy and boring for 7yos. That’s why most 7yos produce work like your 7yo. They want to play video games.

I think you should press for him to get into aap. You should appeal and he will get in. (I really doubt you’ll need to appeal.) I don’t think it’s going to help him much. The work is not that much harder or less boring.

I also think you should have him re-evaluated in a couple years. His scores will stabilize. And if he’s still having behavior issues he will get an ADHD diagnosis. If he doesn’t it doesn’t take much to just get one anyway. I’ve known parents to shop around for the diagnosis in order to get the 504 plan ie extra time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised you didn’t get a diagnosis. Everyone I know has gotten one when evaluated for adhd. Did he test at age 7? That is young so maybe the results were invalid. Also it was more than just a WISC, right?

Nothing you’ve written points anywhere close to him being a bored genius. He doesn’t sound like he’s doing any genius things. He would be reading at a high school level. Interested in a subject at an adult level. Doing advanced math...he also doesn’t sound bored.

He sounds like a very normal 7yo. Utterly normal.

His second grade teacher probably has 15 other kids just like him in class wrt work ethic and motivation. School is a weird mix of being hard and easy and boring for 7yos. That’s why most 7yos produce work like your 7yo. They want to play video games.

I think you should press for him to get into aap. You should appeal and he will get in. (I really doubt you’ll need to appeal.) I don’t think it’s going to help him much. The work is not that much harder or less boring.

I also think you should have him re-evaluated in a couple years. His scores will stabilize. And if he’s still having behavior issues he will get an ADHD diagnosis. If he doesn’t it doesn’t take much to just get one anyway. I’ve known parents to shop around for the diagnosis in order to get the 504 plan ie extra time.

OP here. He got a complete neuro-psych work up. The WISC was only a part of it.

The psych. was pretty certain that my son didn't have ADHD based on the clinical testing and review of the documents given by the school and us. He did say exactly what you did, which is if we wanted to get the diagnosis, someone would probably be happy to give it. But he cautioned that can be problematic and ethically he wouldn't assign a diagnosis when it was clear one wasn't warranted.

I will repeat myself. I don't think my kid is some savant. I am struggling with trying to find a way to get him engaged in school and to get him to meet the expectations. He's an August birthday, so he is on the young side of things. But the problems we have this year are such a diversion from what we've seen the previous two years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised you didn’t get a diagnosis. Everyone I know has gotten one when evaluated for adhd. Did he test at age 7? That is young so maybe the results were invalid. Also it was more than just a WISC, right?

Nothing you’ve written points anywhere close to him being a bored genius. He doesn’t sound like he’s doing any genius things. He would be reading at a high school level. Interested in a subject at an adult level. Doing advanced math...he also doesn’t sound bored.

He sounds like a very normal 7yo. Utterly normal.

His second grade teacher probably has 15 other kids just like him in class wrt work ethic and motivation. School is a weird mix of being hard and easy and boring for 7yos. That’s why most 7yos produce work like your 7yo. They want to play video games.

I think you should press for him to get into aap. You should appeal and he will get in. (I really doubt you’ll need to appeal.) I don’t think it’s going to help him much. The work is not that much harder or less boring.

I also think you should have him re-evaluated in a couple years. His scores will stabilize. And if he’s still having behavior issues he will get an ADHD diagnosis. If he doesn’t it doesn’t take much to just get one anyway. I’ve known parents to shop around for the diagnosis in order to get the 504 plan ie extra time.

OP here. He got a complete neuro-psych work up. The WISC was only a part of it.

The psych. was pretty certain that my son didn't have ADHD based on the clinical testing and review of the documents given by the school and us. He did say exactly what you did, which is if we wanted to get the diagnosis, someone would probably be happy to give it. But he cautioned that can be problematic and ethically he wouldn't assign a diagnosis when it was clear one wasn't warranted.

I will repeat myself. I don't think my kid is some savant. I am struggling with trying to find a way to get him engaged in school and to get him to meet the expectations. He's an August birthday, so he is on the young side of things. But the problems we have this year are such a diversion from what we've seen the previous two years.

How are you communicating with the Teacher? Just curious.

I would ask her to send home any incomplete or rushed work and have him redo it at home. When he complains, I would tell him that he is not doing what he needs to do at school so he will do it at home. Plain and simple.

DS does not like writing. He hates writing. In K he started going to the bathroom often enough that his Teacher grabbed me at dismissal to ask if there was an ongoing medical problem. I said no and we figured out that he was asking to go to the bathroom whenever the class was working on writing. She never told him he couldn't go to the bathroom but she did tell him that he would need to finish his writing before he could go to centers at the end of the day. The bathroom breaks went from 20 minutes to 5 minutes. He missed center time exactly once.

For your son it might be losing his play time at home a few times before he figures out that he needs to complete his work properly at school. He is smart, he will figure it out. It will also give you a chance to see if he is really struggling with something that is causing the disparity between his work and his test score. If he is struggling with it, beyond being annoyed that he has to do it, then you can discuss that with his Teacher.

[Anonymous]

OP, it sounds like the teacher is just a really bad fit for your child. My kids have had teachers who weren't good fits, and it's not atypical for kids to struggle to complete their work or even shut down a bit in the classroom if they don't mesh at all with the teacher. It's unfortunate that yours got the bad fit in 2nd, when the teacher's view of your child matters for GBRS.

If your child isn't accepted, I would use everything you've talked about as evidence that your child cannot be served in a general education classroom and needs a different environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. After some very helpful posts, this thread has turned into what I feared.

Listen, I do not, in any way, excuse my kid's behavior. If anything, I have worked hard to try to get the source of the issue, try to teach him that effort is important, and try to work with the school and his teacher to reach him as a learner. I've asked for help in coming up with incentive systems from his teacher and she has shut down that idea (her words were: unless there's an IEP or 504, she is not going to take on anything additional because there is no legitimate reason to give him "special" support). I will be blunt and admit there's probably a fit issue, my son probably isn't the best behaved student, and there are concrete limitations in the day and demands on this teacher to expect anything more than what's required.

I have tried using incentives at home, but there's a break between when I ask my son about his day and when I see evidence of what he actually does. I don't see assessments for weeks. I don't see daily writing work until the end of a marking period. I don't even see anything beyond an interim and report card from the teacher so if I wasn't piecing together information from papers that were graded weeks ago, I would basically only have interims and report cards (which are vague) to tease out what the issue is.

I have tried to put together some supports like computer games he likes. So, if I see a completed worksheet with effort, he gets ten minutes. It is slow going because it takes him a while to understand that something he did three weeks ago will impact whether or not he gets an award. Because he's 7.

I hate, hate the impression that I am throwing my hands up and claiming my child is a gifted genius who's bored with school and it's the school's fault. I am doing everything I can to help my son own his education and be driven to learn intrinsically. Do I think his school is being helpful? Not terribly. But it is what it is.

And my guess reading this board is that my kid will likely not end up in AAP without some sort of appeal on my part due to his GBRS being terrible. I may be surprised, but based on what I see, I have serious doubts. We'll cross that bridge in April, I guess.

OP there is nothing wrong with you or your child. You have a teacher issue. If she is NOT willing to teach your child, you need to go to the principal and jump up and down. Yes, be that parent! Or pull him out and send him to a private school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised you didn’t get a diagnosis. Everyone I know has gotten one when evaluated for adhd. Did he test at age 7? That is young so maybe the results were invalid. Also it was more than just a WISC, right?

Nothing you’ve written points anywhere close to him being a bored genius. He doesn’t sound like he’s doing any genius things. He would be reading at a high school level. Interested in a subject at an adult level. Doing advanced math...he also doesn’t sound bored.

He sounds like a very normal 7yo. Utterly normal.

His second grade teacher probably has 15 other kids just like him in class wrt work ethic and motivation. School is a weird mix of being hard and easy and boring for 7yos. That’s why most 7yos produce work like your 7yo. They want to play video games.

I think you should press for him to get into aap. You should appeal and he will get in. (I really doubt you’ll need to appeal.) I don’t think it’s going to help him much. The work is not that much harder or less boring.

I also think you should have him re-evaluated in a couple years. His scores will stabilize. And if he’s still having behavior issues he will get an ADHD diagnosis. If he doesn’t it doesn’t take much to just get one anyway. I’ve known parents to shop around for the diagnosis in order to get the 504 plan ie extra time.

OP here. He got a complete neuro-psych work up. The WISC was only a part of it.

The psych. was pretty certain that my son didn't have ADHD based on the clinical testing and review of the documents given by the school and us. He did say exactly what you did, which is if we wanted to get the diagnosis, someone would probably be happy to give it. But he cautioned that can be problematic and ethically he wouldn't assign a diagnosis when it was clear one wasn't warranted.

I will repeat myself. I don't think my kid is some savant. I am struggling with trying to find a way to get him engaged in school and to get him to meet the expectations. He's an August birthday, so he is on the young side of things. But the problems we have this year are such a diversion from what we've seen the previous two years.

How are you communicating with the Teacher? Just curious.

I would ask her to send home any incomplete or rushed work and have him redo it at home. When he complains, I would tell him that he is not doing what he needs to do at school so he will do it at home. Plain and simple.

DS does not like writing. He hates writing. In K he started going to the bathroom often enough that his Teacher grabbed me at dismissal to ask if there was an ongoing medical problem. I said no and we figured out that he was asking to go to the bathroom whenever the class was working on writing. She never told him he couldn't go to the bathroom but she did tell him that he would need to finish his writing before he could go to centers at the end of the day. The bathroom breaks went from 20 minutes to 5 minutes. He missed center time exactly once.

For your son it might be losing his play time at home a few times before he figures out that he needs to complete his work properly at school. He is smart, he will figure it out. It will also give you a chance to see if he is really struggling with something that is causing the disparity between his work and his test score. If he is struggling with it, beyond being annoyed that he has to do it, then you can discuss that with his Teacher.

We've had e-mail, phone calls, and conferences. And yes, I've asked for incomplete work to be sent home and was told that wasn't possible because she was responsible for assessing kids based on what they do in school "without parental input." I made it clear I had no intention of coaching him beyond getting him to complete the work but the request was a non-starter. On top of it, she said even if she sent home desk work, my son's assessments would reflect only what he did in the classroom and that is what she bases her assessment of him on. So, according to her, there's no point.

It's just frustrating. I appreciate some of the comments with tips, including yours. We are working at using incentives at home. It's just a bit of struggle timing wise.

[Anonymous]

I would talk to the Principal. Make it clear that you want the incomplete work sent home to make your son accountable for finishing the work. You are hoping that he realizes that he has to complete his work and not rush through it either at school or home and in doing so change his behavior in school.

[pettifogger]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised you didn’t get a diagnosis. Everyone I know has gotten one when evaluated for adhd. Did he test at age 7? That is young so maybe the results were invalid. Also it was more than just a WISC, right?

Nothing you’ve written points anywhere close to him being a bored genius. He doesn’t sound like he’s doing any genius things. He would be reading at a high school level. Interested in a subject at an adult level. Doing advanced math...he also doesn’t sound bored.

He sounds like a very normal 7yo. Utterly normal.

His second grade teacher probably has 15 other kids just like him in class wrt work ethic and motivation. School is a weird mix of being hard and easy and boring for 7yos. That’s why most 7yos produce work like your 7yo. They want to play video games.

I think you should press for him to get into aap. You should appeal and he will get in. (I really doubt you’ll need to appeal.) I don’t think it’s going to help him much. The work is not that much harder or less boring.

I also think you should have him re-evaluated in a couple years. His scores will stabilize. And if he’s still having behavior issues he will get an ADHD diagnosis. If he doesn’t it doesn’t take much to just get one anyway. I’ve known parents to shop around for the diagnosis in order to get the 504 plan ie extra time.

OP here. He got a complete neuro-psych work up. The WISC was only a part of it.

The psych. was pretty certain that my son didn't have ADHD based on the clinical testing and review of the documents given by the school and us. He did say exactly what you did, which is if we wanted to get the diagnosis, someone would probably be happy to give it. But he cautioned that can be problematic and ethically he wouldn't assign a diagnosis when it was clear one wasn't warranted.

I will repeat myself. I don't think my kid is some savant. I am struggling with trying to find a way to get him engaged in school and to get him to meet the expectations. He's an August birthday, so he is on the young side of things. But the problems we have this year are such a diversion from what we've seen the previous two years.

How are you communicating with the Teacher? Just curious.

I would ask her to send home any incomplete or rushed work and have him redo it at home. When he complains, I would tell him that he is not doing what he needs to do at school so he will do it at home. Plain and simple.

DS does not like writing. He hates writing. In K he started going to the bathroom often enough that his Teacher grabbed me at dismissal to ask if there was an ongoing medical problem. I said no and we figured out that he was asking to go to the bathroom whenever the class was working on writing. She never told him he couldn't go to the bathroom but she did tell him that he would need to finish his writing before he could go to centers at the end of the day. The bathroom breaks went from 20 minutes to 5 minutes. He missed center time exactly once.

For your son it might be losing his play time at home a few times before he figures out that he needs to complete his work properly at school. He is smart, he will figure it out. It will also give you a chance to see if he is really struggling with something that is causing the disparity between his work and his test score. If he is struggling with it, beyond being annoyed that he has to do it, then you can discuss that with his Teacher.

We've had e-mail, phone calls, and conferences. And yes, I've asked for incomplete work to be sent home and was told that wasn't possible because she was responsible for assessing kids based on what they do in school "without parental input." I made it clear I had no intention of coaching him beyond getting him to complete the work but the request was a non-starter. On top of it, she said even if she sent home desk work, my son's assessments would reflect only what he did in the classroom and that is what she bases her assessment of him on. So, according to her, there's no point.

It's just frustrating. I appreciate some of the comments with tips, including yours. We are working at using incentives at home. It's just a bit of struggle timing wise.

How is his behavior at home? Have you tried giving him some work to emulate the school environment and see if he listens to you and does it? What about any assigned homework, does he do it relatively easily (i.e without you having to make/yell at him, etc)? I know in 2nd they don't normally like to give homework often and they just want kids to start building a habit.

Basically, do you see it as only an issue during school or are there similar behaviors at home too? At school, is his behavior the same everywhere (i.e if they occasionally rotate with other teachers at all part of the day or do "specials" such as art or language classes, etc. does he behave the same way in other classrooms?) Or is it only isolated to his main classroom and teacher?

[Anonymous]

pettifogger wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised you didn’t get a diagnosis. Everyone I know has gotten one when evaluated for adhd. Did he test at age 7? That is young so maybe the results were invalid. Also it was more than just a WISC, right?

Nothing you’ve written points anywhere close to him being a bored genius. He doesn’t sound like he’s doing any genius things. He would be reading at a high school level. Interested in a subject at an adult level. Doing advanced math...he also doesn’t sound bored.

He sounds like a very normal 7yo. Utterly normal.

His second grade teacher probably has 15 other kids just like him in class wrt work ethic and motivation. School is a weird mix of being hard and easy and boring for 7yos. That’s why most 7yos produce work like your 7yo. They want to play video games.

I think you should press for him to get into aap. You should appeal and he will get in. (I really doubt you’ll need to appeal.) I don’t think it’s going to help him much. The work is not that much harder or less boring.

I also think you should have him re-evaluated in a couple years. His scores will stabilize. And if he’s still having behavior issues he will get an ADHD diagnosis. If he doesn’t it doesn’t take much to just get one anyway. I’ve known parents to shop around for the diagnosis in order to get the 504 plan ie extra time.

OP here. He got a complete neuro-psych work up. The WISC was only a part of it.

The psych. was pretty certain that my son didn't have ADHD based on the clinical testing and review of the documents given by the school and us. He did say exactly what you did, which is if we wanted to get the diagnosis, someone would probably be happy to give it. But he cautioned that can be problematic and ethically he wouldn't assign a diagnosis when it was clear one wasn't warranted.

I will repeat myself. I don't think my kid is some savant. I am struggling with trying to find a way to get him engaged in school and to get him to meet the expectations. He's an August birthday, so he is on the young side of things. But the problems we have this year are such a diversion from what we've seen the previous two years.

How are you communicating with the Teacher? Just curious.

I would ask her to send home any incomplete or rushed work and have him redo it at home. When he complains, I would tell him that he is not doing what he needs to do at school so he will do it at home. Plain and simple.

DS does not like writing. He hates writing. In K he started going to the bathroom often enough that his Teacher grabbed me at dismissal to ask if there was an ongoing medical problem. I said no and we figured out that he was asking to go to the bathroom whenever the class was working on writing. She never told him he couldn't go to the bathroom but she did tell him that he would need to finish his writing before he could go to centers at the end of the day. The bathroom breaks went from 20 minutes to 5 minutes. He missed center time exactly once.

For your son it might be losing his play time at home a few times before he figures out that he needs to complete his work properly at school. He is smart, he will figure it out. It will also give you a chance to see if he is really struggling with something that is causing the disparity between his work and his test score. If he is struggling with it, beyond being annoyed that he has to do it, then you can discuss that with his Teacher.

We've had e-mail, phone calls, and conferences. And yes, I've asked for incomplete work to be sent home and was told that wasn't possible because she was responsible for assessing kids based on what they do in school "without parental input." I made it clear I had no intention of coaching him beyond getting him to complete the work but the request was a non-starter. On top of it, she said even if she sent home desk work, my son's assessments would reflect only what he did in the classroom and that is what she bases her assessment of him on. So, according to her, there's no point.

It's just frustrating. I appreciate some of the comments with tips, including yours. We are working at using incentives at home. It's just a bit of struggle timing wise.

How is his behavior at home? Have you tried giving him some work to emulate the school environment and see if he listens to you and does it? What about any assigned homework, does he do it relatively easily (i.e without you having to make/yell at him, etc)? I know in 2nd they don't normally like to give homework often and they just want kids to start building a habit.

Basically, do you see it as only an issue during school or are there similar behaviors at home too? At school, is his behavior the same everywhere (i.e if they occasionally rotate with other teachers at all part of the day or do "specials" such as art or language classes, etc. does he behave the same way in other classrooms?) Or is it only isolated to his main classroom and teacher?

OP here. This is a "no homework school." We only have to have him read for 20 minutes every day, which he does without me bothering him (he chooses the books). In terms of specials, I haven't heard any complaints from teachers or my kid. This is mostly a main class issue.

At home, he's a normal kid. Pretty helpful, pretty good-natured, but somewhat rigid in terms of routine and needed to know what is happening and where things are going (hates surprises for example).

I am afraid to contact the principal because the year is long and I am worried about how this is going to impact my kid, particularly since the teacher and my son already are at odds in a way.