What are the odds of them eliminating neighborhood elementary schools in favor of controlled choice?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP here. People are welcome to say good riddance to us, PP - but if I don't have the school I want for our kids, and can afford to move, why on earth would I stay? Childfree people will then move to our house and be happy enough there and everything will balance itself out. I like walking everywhere and being close to work, but not enough to send any of my children to a school I don't care for.

To the PP who mentioned geographical component - I saw that but the problem is we live on the Hill where our inbound school is good (Brent) but any of the other neighboring ones, not so much, so any school choice that has a decent chance of landing my DD at e.g. Tyler Traditional (or sending half of Tyler Traditional students to Brent) is not really great.

If this comes about, they will try and lure you to stay with promises of great programs and shiny new stuff. The inequality at this point is so great in our school system ( for example between the education one receives at Brent, and the one at Tyler Traditional ) that those is charge are willing to gamble that you really want to stay and will give up some certainty to do so.

In what way is the inequity so great between Tyler and Brent?

Just look at the test scores. But I don't see how destroying Brent's achievements can help Tyler. Either expand Brent or help Tyler directly. No grad school social engineering.

That's it? Test scores? You don't have anything but test scores to prove an inequity? Not facilities, curriculum, teaching quality, learning environment, special programs? Test scores are correlated with SES, so where's the inequity? Are you saying that a school is only good if it has high SES students?

I think low-ses students should have higher test scores, absolutely.

But test scores do not indicate an inequality in the opportunities offered by the two schools.

This why "equality of opportunity" becomes a pointless concept. Different kinds of students have different kinds of needs, so equality (eg facilities, fancy curriculums, even per $ expenditures) is not really a useful notion. Whatever it takes to help low-SES students should be done, whether it costs less or more than high-SES schools.

So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't be surprised if this whole "Controlled Choice" idea stems from engaged parents' willingness, so far, to be bandied about by the system as long as they can stay in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

Even high SES students are not guaranteed a "regular childhood." Illness and tragedy can affect any child. A good public school system should provide students what they need and can handle, whether it be remediation and/or world languages.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

Even high SES students are not guaranteed a "regular childhood." Illness and tragedy can affect any child. A good public school system should provide students what they need and can handle, whether it be remediation and/or world languages.

How about letting go of the test scores and unreal expectations for what every child should be able to do at exactly the same time?
Why don't we provide every child a well-rounded education?
Wouldn't that serve equity much more than all this test score nonsense?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the OP here. People are welcome to say good riddance to us, PP - but if I don't have the school I want for our kids, and can afford to move, why on earth would I stay? Childfree people will then move to our house and be happy enough there and everything will balance itself out. I like walking everywhere and being close to work, but not enough to send any of my children to a school I don't care for.

To the PP who mentioned geographical component - I saw that but the problem is we live on the Hill where our inbound school is good (Brent) but any of the other neighboring ones, not so much, so any school choice that has a decent chance of landing my DD at e.g. Tyler Traditional (or sending half of Tyler Traditional students to Brent) is not really great.

If this comes about, they will try and lure you to stay with promises of great programs and shiny new stuff. The inequality at this point is so great in our school system ( for example between the education one receives at Brent, and the one at Tyler Traditional ) that those is charge are willing to gamble that you really want to stay and will give up some certainty to do so.

In what way is the inequity so great between Tyler and Brent?

Just look at the test scores. But I don't see how destroying Brent's achievements can help Tyler. Either expand Brent or help Tyler directly. No grad school social engineering.

That's it? Test scores? You don't have anything but test scores to prove an inequity? Not facilities, curriculum, teaching quality, learning environment, special programs? Test scores are correlated with SES, so where's the inequity? Are you saying that a school is only good if it has high SES students?

I think low-ses students should have higher test scores, absolutely.

But test scores do not indicate an inequality in the opportunities offered by the two schools.

This why "equality of opportunity" becomes a pointless concept. Different kinds of students have different kinds of needs, so equality (eg facilities, fancy curriculums, even per $ expenditures) is not really a useful notion. Whatever it takes to help low-SES students should be done, whether it costs less or more than high-SES schools.

So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

I am not an expert but I don't see why a KIPP style program cannot include enrichment activities. People are too rigid in their thinking. Also I don't really care about museum programs as long as my kid is getting appropriately challenged in class. Too much edu-tainment around here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

Even high SES students are not guaranteed a "regular childhood." Illness and tragedy can affect any child. A good public school system should provide students what they need and can handle, whether it be remediation and/or world languages.

How about letting go of the test scores and unreal expectations for what every child should be able to do at exactly the same time?
Why don't we provide every child a well-rounded education?
Wouldn't that serve equity much more than all this test score nonsense?

I agree that to much testing is bad. At the same time, every student should leave DCPS knowing how to read and write adequately. Test scores show that is not happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:That would terribly hurt these schools which use tremendous community donations to make up for neglect from DCPS. Take away certainty (and continuity between children) and you may end up turning off the spigot.

DCPS has about 99 problems, but not spending enough isn't one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can also ask for evidence that any of these scenarios has resulted in success on any measure they choose to share. And ask that the evidence come from a city that shares DCs demographics. What makes them cofident that movement away from neighborhood schools toward controlled choice will actually achieve their goals and not put us in a worse position ( due to middle class flight).

well put, you should go!

+1

Why shouldn't there be a "test" group or school. If the results aren't significant in 2-3 years then there is NO sense in implementing a system-wide change. No organization should ever jump into a massive change without doing tests groups first.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:That would terribly hurt these schools which use tremendous community donations to make up for neglect from DCPS. Take away certainty (and continuity between children) and you may end up turning off the spigot.

DCPS has about 99 problems, but not spending enough isn't one.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

Even high SES students are not guaranteed a "regular childhood." Illness and tragedy can affect any child. A good public school system should provide students what they need and can handle, whether it be remediation and/or world languages.

How about letting go of the test scores and unreal expectations for what every child should be able to do at exactly the same time?
Why don't we provide every child a well-rounded education?
Wouldn't that serve equity much more than all this test score nonsense?

I agree that to much testing is bad. At the same time, every student should leave DCPS knowing how to read and write adequately. Test scores show that is not happening.

PP is ignorant to the problems of failing schools. PP we're not talking about variations in excellent students. We're talking about kids that are grade levels behind and continuing to fall further and further behind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The WOTP resources are highly educated families and their kids that reap the benefits of these parents.

How could DCPS export that across the park?

It can't. That's why the conversation needs to focus on what is offered in neighborhood schools rather than test scores.

So are they going to try to engineer 75% IB at wotp schools? We'd be so out of DC if my kid couldn't go the school across the street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The WOTP resources are highly educated families and their kids that reap the benefits of these parents.

How could DCPS export that across the park?

It can't. That's why the conversation needs to focus on what is offered in neighborhood schools rather than test scores.

So are they going to try to engineer 75% IB at wotp schools? We'd be so out of DC if my kid couldn't go the school across the street.

But then there are the families who are already driving their kids across town every day -- DC probably sees them as easy marks for their new controlled choice program. These are parents an children who have already been "trained" to jump to the tune of the latest fad in school reform -- for the great privilege of staying in DC.

none of the programs have worked yet -- remember Capital gains -- the program that paid kids for good attendance, etc, that was supposed to raise scores -- didn't work. Remember bonus pay for highly effective teachers based on high impact scores? That was supposed to raise scores, too, as the teachers "taught harder" but it just showed that most of the highly effective teachers were teaching in ward 3, where the kids were already doing fine. remember the "rock star" principals - most of whom have left. remember the "incredible gains" made in some of the lowest scoring schools? cheating.

[Anonymous]

Expanded capacity [evenly distributed] at WOTP schools for all DC residents who want WOTP educations. Also provide school improvements to benefit students whose parents do not request WOTP schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

Even high SES students are not guaranteed a "regular childhood." Illness and tragedy can affect any child. A good public school system should provide students what they need and can handle, whether it be remediation and/or world languages.

How about letting go of the test scores and unreal expectations for what every child should be able to do at exactly the same time?
Why don't we provide every child a well-rounded education?
Wouldn't that serve equity much more than all this test score nonsense?

I agree that to much testing is bad. At the same time, every student should leave DCPS knowing how to read and write adequately. Test scores show that is not happening.

Really? Test scores show that not all students are scoring at a particular benchmark at a particular grade level. Whether that benchmark is an indication that students can't read adequately is up for debate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
So low-scoring, low-SES students should get remediation and KIPP-type extended day programs, while higher-scoring, high-SES student can get world language, museum programs and a regular childhood?

Even high SES students are not guaranteed a "regular childhood." Illness and tragedy can affect any child. A good public school system should provide students what they need and can handle, whether it be remediation and/or world languages.

How about letting go of the test scores and unreal expectations for what every child should be able to do at exactly the same time?
Why don't we provide every child a well-rounded education?
Wouldn't that serve equity much more than all this test score nonsense?

I agree that to much testing is bad. At the same time, every student should leave DCPS knowing how to read and write adequately. Test scores show that is not happening.

PP is ignorant to the problems of failing schools. PP we're not talking about variations in excellent students. We're talking about kids that are grade levels behind and continuing to fall further and further behind.

and you think this is because the schools are failing them?