national merit semifinalists announced - link to area schools

[Anonymous]

Appropriate props to Blair Magnet and TJ.

In the independent school world, a good year for Sidwell; and very impressive showing by Visitation which in the past hadn't had many.

[Anonymous]

Yes, really good for Sidwell. As a GDS parent, I'm pleased to see so many girls on the GDS list. Last year it was all or nearly all boys.

[Anonymous]

And a good year for Whitman with 25, which is not bad for a non-magnet public school.

[Anonymous]

Where are you seeing the NMSF lists for gds and sidwell?

[Anonymous]

http://georgetown.patch.com/articles/area-schools-students-national-merit-semifinalists

A great year for Visi, average for GDS and NCS/STA, low for Maret, and very good for Sidwell (compared to last year when only 5-6 for Sidwell and twice as many for GDS, making anything of a single year at small private is misleading).

[Anonymous]

Why is any of this a surprise? They are MAGNET schools, intended to attract kids who do well on STANDARIZED tests. I'd hope they have a huge number of NMS-types. I am always a little surprised that privates don't have more.

My DS, at a private, was a semi-finalist and I expect so with the younger one but, surprise surprise, they've always done well on standardized tests and were easily admitted to Blair .... because they do well on standardized tests. Long and short of it is that TJ and Blair are self-selecting based on standardized test performance.

I have some surprising news. These same kids do well on NON-STANDARDIZED tests. How many private school kids earn USAMO, Siemens, Intel and Davidson Fellowships? When I last checked these were not standardardized tests. As a private school alumni I graciously take my hats of to these kids that kick much butt on STANDARDIZED and NON-STANDARDIZED tests.

[Anonymous]

"Kick much butt"? I'm guessing we won't hear as much from you today since school's back in session.

[Anonymous]

PP is so out of touch

[Anonymous]

Just to add a point of information to this discussion, remember when you try to compare %'s of NMSFs between schools in DC, MD and VA, that the cutoffs are really very significantly different. DC has the highest cutoff in the country (along with International and I believe NJ and MA), this year 221 (2210 in terms more of us can understand to compare to SATs), VA's is only 217 and MD's is 219. So trying to compare the numbers of NMSFs at Blair magnet or TJ versus schools in DC is really difficult, since the cutoffs are different (and it can really make a huge difference at the top end, counselor in my kids Big3 school indicated if used VA cutoff that the school would have quadrupled the number of NMSFs which would have brought the % into the TJ range, and using Maryland cutoff would have increased by 2.5 fold).

I keep seeing people being "surprised" that schools like GDS, Sidwell and the Cathedral Schools don't have more in terms of %'s compared to the public magnets, this is the main reason why (besides of course that those schools select in 8 grade based on SAT-like testing abilities, and the privates have kids coming in at age 4-5 with no idea how they will end up as standardized test takers).

The schools that this situation really hurts are the DC publics, absolutely certain that for instance Wilson High School would have some significant number of NMSFs if they had a cutoff similar to VA or even MD. Being in a city where there are loads of kids that come into the city from MD and VA to attend highly academic privates and parochial schools really drives up the cutoff score artificially.

Then there is the whole issue of whether the cutoffs should differ by state, understand the reasoning behind it, but there are even larger differences than the local ones (i.e. Wyoming and West Virginia for instance have cutoffs of 200. I suspect a significant majority of kids at many local privates and just about every student at TJ or Blair would be a NMSF if those were the cutoffs here!). Many colleges give $2500 to NMSFs and then the NM foundation itself supports some number of $2500 scholarships to the NM finalists so this has real monetary consequences.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just to add a point of information to this discussion, remember when you try to compare %'s of NMSFs between schools in DC, MD and VA, that the cutoffs are really very significantly different. DC has the highest cutoff in the country (along with International and I believe NJ and MA), this year 221 (2210 in terms more of us can understand to compare to SATs), VA's is only 217 and MD's is 219. So trying to compare the numbers of NMSFs at Blair magnet or TJ versus schools in DC is really difficult, since the cutoffs are different (and it can really make a huge difference at the top end, counselor in my kids Big3 school indicated if used VA cutoff that the school would have quadrupled the number of NMSFs which would have brought the % into the TJ range, and using Maryland cutoff would have increased by 2.5 fold).

I keep seeing people being "surprised" that schools like GDS, Sidwell and the Cathedral Schools don't have more in terms of %'s compared to the public magnets, this is the main reason why (besides of course that those schools select in 8 grade based on SAT-like testing abilities, and the privates have kids coming in at age 4-5 with no idea how they will end up as standardized test takers).

We're talking about the tail end of the SAT score distribution, so this seems a little unlikely.

[Anonymous]

Just to add a point of information to this discussion, remember when you try to compare %'s of NMSFs between schools in DC, MD and VA, that the cutoffs are really very significantly different. DC has the highest cutoff in the country (along with International and I believe NJ and MA), this year 221 (2210 in terms more of us can understand to compare to SATs), VA's is only 217 and MD's is 219. So trying to compare the numbers of NMSFs at Blair magnet or TJ versus schools in DC is really difficult, since the cutoffs are different (and it can really make a huge difference at the top end, counselor in my kids Big3 school indicated if used VA cutoff that the school would have quadrupled the number of NMSFs which would have brought the % into the TJ range, and using Maryland cutoff would have increased by 2.5 fold).

I keep seeing people being "surprised" that schools like GDS, Sidwell and the Cathedral Schools don't have more in terms of %'s compared to the public magnets, this is the main reason why (besides of course that those schools select in 8 grade based on SAT-like testing abilities, and the privates have kids coming in at age 4-5 with no idea how they will end up as standardized test takers). The schools that this situation really hurts are the DC publics, absolutely certain that for instance Wilson High School would have some significant number of NMSFs if they had a cutoff similar to VA or even MD. Being in a city where there are loads of kids that come into the city from MD and VA to attend highly academic privates and parochial schools really drives up the cutoff score artificially.

Then there is the whole issue of whether the cutoffs should differ by state, understand the reasoning behind it, but there are even larger differences than the local ones (i.e. Wyoming and West Virginia for instance have cutoffs of 200. I suspect a significant majority of kids at many local privates and just about every student at TJ or Blair would be a NMSF if those were the cutoffs here!). Many colleges give $2500 to NMSFs and then the NM foundation itself supports some number of $2500 scholarships to the NM finalists so this has real monetary consequences.

So, the explanation why the public school students at Blair magnet program and TJHS simply whip the academic socks off students in D.C. private schools is due to a much higher standard or cutoff for the D.C. private schools?

Is this thesis also true for non-standadardized tests and accolades like AP scholarrs, Davidson Fellowships, USAMO, Olympiaids, Intel and Seimens? What's the standard "talking point" rebuttal?

Of course, students in public school just take standardized tests? These types of tests don't exist in private schools? ERB, SSAT are not standardized tests.

Area D.C. private studnts do not participate in CTY or Duke TIPS programs and they do not participate in SAT and ACT standardized test taking for qualification. These tests don't really qualify as standardized tests and don't count.

[Anonymous]

You mean the magnet school kids - not the public school kids - right? If you took the magnet school kids out of the mix - how many Blair and TJ kids are NMSFs?

That is why all the other schools don't have NMSFs because they took a test and a big magnet pulled them into these two schools.

Now explain Whitman - that's impressive.

Anonymous wrote:

Just to add a point of information to this discussion, remember when you try to compare %'s of NMSFs between schools in DC, MD and VA, that the cutoffs are really very significantly different. DC has the highest cutoff in the country (along with International and I believe NJ and MA), this year 221 (2210 in terms more of us can understand to compare to SATs), VA's is only 217 and MD's is 219. So trying to compare the numbers of NMSFs at Blair magnet or TJ versus schools in DC is really difficult, since the cutoffs are different (and it can really make a huge difference at the top end, counselor in my kids Big3 school indicated if used VA cutoff that the school would have quadrupled the number of NMSFs which would have brought the % into the TJ range, and using Maryland cutoff would have increased by 2.5 fold).

I keep seeing people being "surprised" that schools like GDS, Sidwell and the Cathedral Schools don't have more in terms of %'s compared to the public magnets, this is the main reason why (besides of course that those schools select in 8 grade based on SAT-like testing abilities, and the privates have kids coming in at age 4-5 with no idea how they will end up as standardized test takers). The schools that this situation really hurts are the DC publics, absolutely certain that for instance Wilson High School would have some significant number of NMSFs if they had a cutoff similar to VA or even MD. Being in a city where there are loads of kids that come into the city from MD and VA to attend highly academic privates and parochial schools really drives up the cutoff score artificially.

Then there is the whole issue of whether the cutoffs should differ by state, understand the reasoning behind it, but there are even larger differences than the local ones (i.e. Wyoming and West Virginia for instance have cutoffs of 200. I suspect a significant majority of kids at many local privates and just about every student at TJ or Blair would be a NMSF if those were the cutoffs here!). Many colleges give $2500 to NMSFs and then the NM foundation itself supports some number of $2500 scholarships to the NM finalists so this has real monetary consequences.

So, the explanation why the public school students at Blair magnet program and TJHS simply whip the academic socks off students in D.C. private schools is due to a much higher standard or cutoff for the D.C. private schools?

Is this thesis also true for non-standadardized tests and accolades like AP scholarrs, Davidson Fellowships, USAMO, Olympiaids, Intel and Seimens? What's the standard "talking point" rebuttal?

Of course, students in public school just take standardized tests? These types of tests don't exist in private schools? ERB, SSAT are not standardized tests.

Area D.C. private studnts do not participate in CTY or Duke TIPS programs and they do not participate in SAT and ACT standardized test taking for qualification. These tests don't really qualify as standardized tests and don't count.

[Anonymous]

You mean the magnet school kids - not the public school kids - right? If you took the magnet school kids out of the mix - how many Blair and TJ kids are NMSFs?

That is why all the other schools don't have NMSFs because they took a test and a big magnet pulled them into these two schools.

Now explain Whitman - that's impressive.

Did it ever occur to you that schools like Whitman and Wootton (student peer group and bricks and mortar) may be just as good or better than most D.C. area private schools?

[Anonymous]

These are all excellent schools, but the score differences between states really can explain differences for NMSF at least to some extent (and really does a disservice to DC public schools) and should at least be considered before people make all sorts of blanket ridiculous statements about "whipping the socks" off etc etc etc. If each parent/student is thrilled at their kid's school and its academic achievements, great, but then why be so nasty, boastful and competitive about this all? The schools and how they approach standardized testing, participation in various contests, and AP courses/exams differs enormously (many of the privates explicitly steer away from even designating courses APs because the department/teachers feel the content mandated by AP is not adequate and focuses too much on memorization or archaic content-for instance the bio AP until it was finally revised this past year). Any kid who is a NMSF is likely to have been in the same score range whatever school he/she went to, relatively low level and rote standardized testing skills tested by the PSAT and SAT. Some kids/families thrive in a public school and want the diversity and acceleration of math and science courses offered at TJ and Blair. Other kids who are focused more on the humanities or who in high school would far rather focus on learning to write with more individualized attention and participate in true discussion courses are not going to be happy at TJ or Blair and may stay at a smaller local public or an IB program or a different sort of magnet program, or may be lucky enough to have the means to attend a top private schools either from their family resources or financial aid.
All these kids seem to do very well from any of the schools being discussed here when they get to college.

[Anonymous]

Nothing riduculous here. I stand by the statement that the kids at TJHS and Blair Magnet are in a class of their own. Just talk to HYP and Stanford MIT admission folk. You might not like it. But, I'm afraid that the current status. Work a little harder.