Concerns about TJ Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since merit-based evaluation did not yield the intended level of student diversity, the system transitioned to the current subjective, essay-based lottery process. While a school-based quota exists, many students from lower-performing schools decline their offers. Consequently, those spots are reallocated to the top four middle schools, which nurture overwhelming number of FCPS’s advanced STEM students.

Keep telling yourself that. It apparently makes you feel better about yourself.

The DEI nonsense is dead. Merit is back

Apparently only on paper, but not in reality, if you read the College Threads...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You can have concerns about TJ admissions but you can’t change it so just make sure your kid is prepared for the test and understands the pros and cons of attending TJ

As for the students whose base schools did not prepare them, I think TJ should take responsibility for getting those kids the remedial help they need. Clearly those kids are motivated. Teachers should not be accepting that those kids are destined to do poorly - they need additional supports and help and maybe there need to be some lower level classes for freshman available in certain subjects.

These are my thoughts as well...

TJ admissions and TJ itself are 2 totally different entities and do not function in concert with each other. The supports provided by teachers are dictated by the administration. This new regime seems intent on sending kids back to the base school as opposed to actually helping them fill in the gaps. That's not the teachers' fault. As a TJ parent, I can see they're doing the best they can with the time they've been given, but if there's no admin support or vision for talent development, that makes it harder.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a child who is currently in 8th grade, and went to our school's TJ info session last night. After listening to the presentation, I had a couple of concerns.

According to the presenter, the only official records that the admissions people are allowed to take into consideration are grades and experience factors. Everything else is on the essays. No test scores or teacher recommendations. We were counseled that if our child has noteworthy STEM-related achievements or experiences, they should write about it in their reflections essays. This made me wonder - what's to keep children from flat-out lying and inventing a fantastical tale of grand STEM accomplishment? It sounds like the admissions group isn't allowed to cross-check them and cannot even rely on the endorsement of trusted sources like teachers.

Second, I'm somewhat concerned that so much of the admissions process relies on essays. I've been on plenty of hiring committees where some people love a candidate while others consider it awful, and it all hinges on a few relatively mundane lines in their cover letter. I've also had research paper where one reviewer calls the work remarkable and novel, while another recommends it for rejection. It seems like a lot hinges on something that can be taken very subjectively, and the fate of our children depends a lot on having the luck to land sympathetic reviewers.

The presenter refused to comment on the specifics of the process, in terms of how each piece of information is taken into account. This is understandable. However, I'm worried that the information that they have to start with isn't enough to ensure a fair process.

Oh it's super easy. They take the top kids from every school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently all the teachers are racist in middle school. In high school none of the teachers are racist so they use recommendations for colleges.

All the tests are unfair in middle school and amazingly SAT/ACT are fair in HS.

It is a mystery.

There are academic studies that there were very clear differences in how letters of recommendation where written for similarly qualified kids based on race. I am not sure that applied to TJ applicants but it does happen and it is studied.

I think the dropping of letters of recommendation was great for teachers at the feeder schools due to the number of kids who were asking for them. I can’t imagine how many kids were asking the same people, their Math and Science teachers, for letters at Carson. There are 4 science teachers for 8th grade, I am not sure about the number of math teachers. I can see the science and math teachers being asked to write 30-40 letters of recommendation. That is a ton of extra work that would be needed on top of grading and lesson planning.

People on this board consistently complain about the HOPE scores that are given by second grade teachers and talk about how the teachers cannot see how gifted their kid and how poorly educated the teacher is to pick out the gifted traits in their kid. It is one of the factors that people want to get rid of.

There is plenty of literature out there that demonstrate that the SAT/ACT are written in a way that is biased towards white, upper middle class, life experiences. And one of the common criticisms is that the SAT/ACT are easily gamed by people who can afford prep and to take it 5 times to get a super score. The SAT/ACT scores that people see that are so amazing are rarely from a kids first attempt.

I call bullshit. Can you provide a cite?

And the "common criticism" of the gamification of the SAT is not data it's complaining because your kid isn't as smart as you thought they were.

There are in fact studies showing that rich kids and poor kids with the same test scores get the same GPA. I do think the college board should limit how many times you can take the exam to the same number of times you can take the exam for free if you are poor. Right now you can only take the exam twice for free and some school systems pay for your first one.

https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/racist-beginnings-standardized-testing

NP.

Is that link meant to some sort of joke? It leads to the site of largest teachers’ union in the USA, the NEA.

Teachers’ unions do NOT represent students nor students best interests.

Furthermore, the NEA is a far-left organization which is politically-aligned with the same groups of people who entirely eliminated the advanced academic programs of NYC and Seattle public schools. The linked article is not based on believable research.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently all the teachers are racist in middle school. In high school none of the teachers are racist so they use recommendations for colleges.

All the tests are unfair in middle school and amazingly SAT/ACT are fair in HS.

It is a mystery.

There are academic studies that there were very clear differences in how letters of recommendation where written for similarly qualified kids based on race. I am not sure that applied to TJ applicants but it does happen and it is studied.

I think the dropping of letters of recommendation was great for teachers at the feeder schools due to the number of kids who were asking for them. I can’t imagine how many kids were asking the same people, their Math and Science teachers, for letters at Carson. There are 4 science teachers for 8th grade, I am not sure about the number of math teachers. I can see the science and math teachers being asked to write 30-40 letters of recommendation. That is a ton of extra work that would be needed on top of grading and lesson planning.

People on this board consistently complain about the HOPE scores that are given by second grade teachers and talk about how the teachers cannot see how gifted their kid and how poorly educated the teacher is to pick out the gifted traits in their kid. It is one of the factors that people want to get rid of.

There is plenty of literature out there that demonstrate that the SAT/ACT are written in a way that is biased towards white, upper middle class, life experiences. And one of the common criticisms is that the SAT/ACT are easily gamed by people who can afford prep and to take it 5 times to get a super score. The SAT/ACT scores that people see that are so amazing are rarely from a kids first attempt.

I call bullshit. Can you provide a cite?

And the "common criticism" of the gamification of the SAT is not data it's complaining because your kid isn't as smart as you thought they were.

There are in fact studies showing that rich kids and poor kids with the same test scores get the same GPA. I do think the college board should limit how many times you can take the exam to the same number of times you can take the exam for free if you are poor. Right now you can only take the exam twice for free and some school systems pay for your first one.

https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/racist-beginnings-standardized-testing

NP.

Is that link meant to some sort of joke? It leads to the site of largest teachers’ union in the USA, the NEA.

Teachers’ unions do NOT represent students nor students best interests.

Furthermore, the NEA is a far-left organization which is politically-aligned with the same groups of people who entirely eliminated the advanced academic programs of NYC and Seattle public schools. The linked article is not based on believable research.

+1

In addition, if Mamdani wins the NYC mayoral election, he plans to go even further than his socialist predecessor, Mayor DiBlasio, by prohibiting advanced educational programs in K through 2nd grade, according to the NYT:

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/02/nyregion/mamdani-schools-gifted-and-talented-program.html#:~:text=Mr.%2520Mamdani's%2520campaign%2520said%2520in,nurtures%2520their%2520curiosity%2520and%2520learning.%E2%80%9D

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since merit-based evaluation did not yield the intended level of student diversity, the system transitioned to the current subjective, essay-based lottery process. While a school-based quota exists, many students from lower-performing schools decline their offers. Consequently, those spots are reallocated to the top four middle schools, which nurture overwhelming number of FCPS’s advanced STEM students.

Keep telling yourself that. It apparently makes you feel better about yourself.

The DEI nonsense is dead. Merit is back

Apparently only on paper, but not in reality, if you read the College Threads...

Because DEI makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since merit-based evaluation did not yield the intended level of student diversity, the system transitioned to the current subjective, essay-based lottery process. While a school-based quota exists, many students from lower-performing schools decline their offers. Consequently, those spots are reallocated to the top four middle schools, which nurture overwhelming number of FCPS’s advanced STEM students.

Keep telling yourself that. It apparently makes you feel better about yourself.

The DEI nonsense is dead. Merit is back

Apparently only on paper, but not in reality, if you read the College Threads...

Because DEI makes sense.

DEI initiatives are a form of unlawful discrimination because they result in education and employment actions based on protected characteristics such as race or sex, violating Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.

Further, DEI practices lead to preferential treatment and segregation based on these characteristics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since merit-based evaluation did not yield the intended level of student diversity, the system transitioned to the current subjective, essay-based lottery process. While a school-based quota exists, many students from lower-performing schools decline their offers. Consequently, those spots are reallocated to the top four middle schools, which nurture overwhelming number of FCPS’s advanced STEM students.

Keep telling yourself that. It apparently makes you feel better about yourself.

The DEI nonsense is dead. Merit is back

Apparently only on paper, but not in reality, if you read the College Threads...

Because DEI makes sense.

DEI initiatives are a form of unlawful discrimination because they result in education and employment actions based on protected characteristics such as race or sex, violating Title VII of the Civil Rights Act.

Further, DEI practices lead to preferential treatment and segregation based on these characteristics.

They lead to slightly decreased preferential treatment for groups with oversized opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

I was surprised that you can apply with a 3.5 given how easy it is to get As in middle school

Admitted average was far higher. This is just to increase the applicant pool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG the parents whats app group... it's so out of control, and it's obvious a ton of parents got their kids into TJ via HEAVY use of tutors and test coaching. My kid has excellent grades and I have done exactly zero - both now and in prior years. No tutoring, nothing.

I now absolutely share the concerns about TJ admissions because many of the kids who now "hate school" (or their parents want to tell the teachers to make it easier) simply should not be at this school. Maybe up the GPA requirements or have a more rigorous entrance exam.

I was surprised that you can apply with a 3.5 given how easy it is to get As in middle school

You do realize that most of the kids in MS are not getting A's? My kid's friend group has a few kids with straight A's, some kids working hard for As and A-s, and the majority with A's and B's. He is unusual in that he has all As and has very limited homework. His friends are bringing home homework that takes anywhere from 30 minutes to hours to complete. They are at Carson in AAP or all honors classes.

There are parents who post regularly on this forum about using tutors to keep their kid a float in AAP math at the ES level. A 3.5 GPA, with 3 honors classes, is not easy for a lot of kids. Parents who are interested in TJ tend to have kids who are doing well in school, some with little support, some with a lot of support, which might blind you to the fact that the requirements for TJ are more rigorous than you think.

That said, I would prefer the GPA be a 3.75 and that Geometry was required by 8th grade with a pass advanced on the Algebra 1 SOL. I think it would help find students that are a better academic fit. You could adjust the math requirement for the schools that have fewer kids in Geometry in 8th grade.

Couldn’t have put it better. The lack of a Geometry requirement is mind-boggling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 years ago our neighbor in an apartment complex had a son who is 3 years old and used to play with my son who is the same age. The father who is Chinese used to work job including a nightime shift. Both the jobs are pretty low paying menial jobs. He used to tell me he needs to save that money since he would send his child to Harvard.

I can imagine the child, who is a really sweet kid, doing really well in college admissions.

A family that does not put as much emphasis on academics would not do as well.

Immigrants in general and Asians immigrants in particular are just willing to sacrifice more for education than most others.

Sacrificing for education is one thing and is very admirable.

Wealthy families choosing to optimize their child's chances in competitive admissions processes by streamlining their childhood in service of that process is problematic, especially when access to that optimization is limited to those with resources. So it's incumbent on those who design admissions processes to remove those incentives for two reasons:

1) It's not good for *any* elite institution to restrict access, either de facto or de jure, from students who are every bit as meritorious and deserving but perhaps weren't lucky enough to be born to parents who have resources, motivation, and awareness of the rules of the game;

2) It's not good to put pressure on families who would like to raise well-rounded, well-adjusted children that if they want their kids to have a shot, they have to engage in the problematic behaviors of the parents who don't care about the damage they're doing to their children in service of the TJ/HYPSM golden idol.

Well designed standardized tests are not biased along lines of race, class or sex.
The reason some groups do better than other groups is because they have trained their kids to be better students.
If all kids had been raised by those same parents perhaps different kids would risen to the top but the kids that do better on the tests are better students.
Does money help? Sure, wealthy families can support academics better than poor families. But the tests are not biased in favor of wealthy kids, except to the extent that wealthier families (by which we mean middle class) can invest more in their children's education.

Almost every other country in the world uses a single test or a series of tests as the sole or primary determinant of who goes to which college.

You guys act like it's just China and India, it's not.

Is almost every other country in the world damaging their children with "problematic behavior?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 years ago our neighbor in an apartment complex had a son who is 3 years old and used to play with my son who is the same age. The father who is Chinese used to work job including a nightime shift. Both the jobs are pretty low paying menial jobs. He used to tell me he needs to save that money since he would send his child to Harvard.

I can imagine the child, who is a really sweet kid, doing really well in college admissions.

A family that does not put as much emphasis on academics would not do as well.

Immigrants in general and Asians immigrants in particular are just willing to sacrifice more for education than most others.

Periodic reminder that before the modernization of the TJ admissions process, TJ was functionally inaccessible to low-income Asian students and families.

And that's no longer the case. But by all means, feel free to advocate for the removal of low-income Asian students from TJ.

Modernization? ROFLMAO

They eliminated testing because they couldn't figure out how else to reduce the asian population and increase the black population. And they ended up mostly just increasing the white and hispanic population.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Periodic reminder than students are dropping off in large numbers every year from TJ within the first few weeks of school year due to the poor admissions process.

A friend's son was offered admission to TJ, 2 weeks after the start of classes from the waitlist pool!

Has always happened! But at least now they’re working to fill the class back to its intended number.

No this has not always happened. In the past we used to see maybe 1% recidivism to base schools. In 2025 it was closer to 10% of the entering class returning to their base school before the beginning of their sophomore year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently all the teachers are racist in middle school. In high school none of the teachers are racist so they use recommendations for colleges.

All the tests are unfair in middle school and amazingly SAT/ACT are fair in HS.

It is a mystery.

There are academic studies that there were very clear differences in how letters of recommendation where written for similarly qualified kids based on race. I am not sure that applied to TJ applicants but it does happen and it is studied.

I think the dropping of letters of recommendation was great for teachers at the feeder schools due to the number of kids who were asking for them. I can’t imagine how many kids were asking the same people, their Math and Science teachers, for letters at Carson. There are 4 science teachers for 8th grade, I am not sure about the number of math teachers. I can see the science and math teachers being asked to write 30-40 letters of recommendation. That is a ton of extra work that would be needed on top of grading and lesson planning.

People on this board consistently complain about the HOPE scores that are given by second grade teachers and talk about how the teachers cannot see how gifted their kid and how poorly educated the teacher is to pick out the gifted traits in their kid. It is one of the factors that people want to get rid of.

There is plenty of literature out there that demonstrate that the SAT/ACT are written in a way that is biased towards white, upper middle class, life experiences. And one of the common criticisms is that the SAT/ACT are easily gamed by people who can afford prep and to take it 5 times to get a super score. The SAT/ACT scores that people see that are so amazing are rarely from a kids first attempt.

I call bullshit. Can you provide a cite?

And the "common criticism" of the gamification of the SAT is not data it's complaining because your kid isn't as smart as you thought they were.

There are in fact studies showing that rich kids and poor kids with the same test scores get the same GPA. I do think the college board should limit how many times you can take the exam to the same number of times you can take the exam for free if you are poor. Right now you can only take the exam twice for free and some school systems pay for your first one.

https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/racist-beginnings-standardized-testing

We give you peer reviewed research to support our point and you cite an opinion peice that relies on Ibram Kendi X's book "How to be an Anrti-racist"

Can you cite to any peer reviewed research that "the SAT/ACT are written in a way that is biased towards white, upper middle class, life experiences"

Can you explain why this bias towards white middle class experience seems to resonate so well with chinese and indian immigrants?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OK but EVERYTHING old in USA has "racist beginnings" because USA (like many others) was founded as racist nation.

Holistic admissions has anti-semitic origins, the woke folk seem to have no problems with holistic admissions.