Why can't people speak out against Israel/IDF?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just foreign nationals on college campuses. Now, Bands that have suggested the IDF be dismantled are banned from touring in America... It's perfectly fine to say "Defund the police" after a few rogue police officers (in some badly run police departments) kill some African Americans, but criticize the IDF or Israeli government (an organization which has no killed 60,000 or so and maybe 3-4 times that, while displacing and actively starving an entire country) and your visa is immediately revoked to perform as concerts in the US.

Is anyone else not seeing this lunacy and the complete double standard of all of this?

Some very reasonable solutions have been put forth in congress - like you should disclose if you possess foreign citizenship while running for office. I wonder if that will help us elucidate some things...

Nice try, OP.
This rapper led a cheer yelling “death, death to the IDF.” He encouraged thousands to join in.
I suppose had he led a chant yelling “death, death to the Palestines” you would feel the same way?

Looks like he FAFO.

There are plenty of Israeli singers who are on video singing about death to Gaza (Rinat Bar) or like the lovely Israeli singer Peretz who has a song titled “May your village burn”. But they are Israelis and nobody bats an eye if they sing about the death of Palestinians.

Listen. I’m sure there are plenty of examples of extreme rhetoric and hate speech on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides IN Israel and Palestine. Those are the directly impacted parties. The rhetoric on the Palestinian side is MUCH worse by orders of magnitude based on what I’ve seen, but setting that aside.

Have you ever seen a massive crowd IN THE WEST shouting DEATH to anyone before? I certainly haven’t. That’s not a thing that’s considered compatible with western values. Unless, apparently, Israel/Jews are involved. Why is that?

Yes. Lots of times. Have you been outside at any rally? I’ve heard death to cops during 2020 and lots of other crazy things during protests. Madonna threatened to blow up the White House at the women’s March. Many people scream for death or destruction during protests. Rallies or protests are magnets for the crazies/fringe. In Israel during Pride month before 10/7, death to Arab and death to lgbt rallies were hosted by Ben Gvir , the minister of national security and grand Marshall of ceremonies.

I genuinely just did a Google search and couldn’t find one documented instance of people shouting DEATH to something in America. I’ve heard F the police and whatnot but never death. Feel free to drop a link if you find one. Madonna didn’t threaten to blow up the White House and if you read her actual words it’s clear she was being flippant. And again, your last example happened in Israel (assuming it happened, I didn’t check).

Lol this video is obviously offensive for so many reasons but speaking as a Persian, I’m personally offended by his atrocious Farsi pronunciation. At least say it right if you’re going to say it.

[Anonymous]

I think Americans have issues regarding being censored and ultimately accused of being anti-for having the wrong opinions on a foreign government. If we’re allowed to freely criticize our own government why are we afraid to say the wrong things about a foreign government?We have freedom of speech here, but somehow we are being censored and sometimes pushed out, excluded from organizations, neighborhoods, etc. simply for having a differing opinion. The only reason I am on this board is because I am terrified of being ostracized for saying the wrong things irl. I don’t feel like this is a welcome topic to discuss as a nonjew amongst jews. A jewish person begins the discussion, speaks freely but the moment someone, a nonjew missteps you’re shut down. This is my experience and I haven’t witnessed this before in my entire life as an American. I understand and appreciate jewish history but as an Americans I don’t feel that this should our burden.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And Palestine started this, so they get whatever they deserve and then some.

You are, Just Dumb, ASF.

That is hardly a repudiation of the assertion, merely vitriol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just foreign nationals on college campuses. Now, Bands that have suggested the IDF be dismantled are banned from touring in America... It's perfectly fine to say "Defund the police" after a few rogue police officers (in some badly run police departments) kill some African Americans, but criticize the IDF or Israeli government (an organization which has no killed 60,000 or so and maybe 3-4 times that, while displacing and actively starving an entire country) and your visa is immediately revoked to perform as concerts in the US.

Is anyone else not seeing this lunacy and the complete double standard of all of this?

Some very reasonable solutions have been put forth in congress - like you should disclose if you possess foreign citizenship while running for office. I wonder if that will help us elucidate some things...

Nice try, OP.
This rapper led a cheer yelling “death, death to the IDF.” He encouraged thousands to join in.
I suppose had he led a chant yelling “death, death to the Palestines” you would feel the same way?

Looks like he FAFO.

There are plenty of Israeli singers who are on video singing about death to Gaza (Rinat Bar) or like the lovely Israeli singer Peretz who has a song titled “May your village burn”. But they are Israelis and nobody bats an eye if they sing about the death of Palestinians.

Listen. I’m sure there are plenty of examples of extreme rhetoric and hate speech on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides IN Israel and Palestine. Those are the directly impacted parties. The rhetoric on the Palestinian side is MUCH worse by orders of magnitude based on what I’ve seen, but setting that aside.

Have you ever seen a massive crowd IN THE WEST shouting DEATH to anyone before? I certainly haven’t. That’s not a thing that’s considered compatible with western values. Unless, apparently, Israel/Jews are involved. Why is that?

There was a mob of Jewish men who chanted “Death to Arabs” and attacked a woman in NYC a few months ago.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/mob-of-orthodox-jewish-men-chased-brooklyn-woman-after-mistaking-her-for-protester-against-israeli-security-minister

Yeah that’s completely disgusting and inexcusable. But it’s a bunch of ultra-religious hasids in crown heights. They’re essentially a fringe cult that lives in isolation from society. The Glastonbury festival incident was a bunch of otherwise sane, normal, mainstream people. That’s what makes it especially scary. These views are becoming absolutely commonplace.

How about when hundreds of Israelis sang "Death to Arabs" and "F*** the Arabs" on the streets of Amsterdam last year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HRUV86bVa0

Does that meet your or PP's qualifications?

1 - Massive crowd (video of hundreds of Israelis)
2 - In the West (Amsterdam)
3 - Not in Israel at the time
4 - Not ultra religious fringe cult living in isolation (Israeli soccer fans from Tel Aviv traveling to another country to attend the game)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just foreign nationals on college campuses. Now, Bands that have suggested the IDF be dismantled are banned from touring in America... It's perfectly fine to say "Defund the police" after a few rogue police officers (in some badly run police departments) kill some African Americans, but criticize the IDF or Israeli government (an organization which has no killed 60,000 or so and maybe 3-4 times that, while displacing and actively starving an entire country) and your visa is immediately revoked to perform as concerts in the US.

Is anyone else not seeing this lunacy and the complete double standard of all of this?

Some very reasonable solutions have been put forth in congress - like you should disclose if you possess foreign citizenship while running for office. I wonder if that will help us elucidate some things...

Nice try, OP.
This rapper led a cheer yelling “death, death to the IDF.” He encouraged thousands to join in.
I suppose had he led a chant yelling “death, death to the Palestines” you would feel the same way?

Looks like he FAFO.

There are plenty of Israeli singers who are on video singing about death to Gaza (Rinat Bar) or like the lovely Israeli singer Peretz who has a song titled “May your village burn”. But they are Israelis and nobody bats an eye if they sing about the death of Palestinians.

Listen. I’m sure there are plenty of examples of extreme rhetoric and hate speech on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides IN Israel and Palestine. Those are the directly impacted parties. The rhetoric on the Palestinian side is MUCH worse by orders of magnitude based on what I’ve seen, but setting that aside.

Have you ever seen a massive crowd IN THE WEST shouting DEATH to anyone before? I certainly haven’t. That’s not a thing that’s considered compatible with western values. Unless, apparently, Israel/Jews are involved. Why is that?

There was a mob of Jewish men who chanted “Death to Arabs” and attacked a woman in NYC a few months ago.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/amp/politics/mob-of-orthodox-jewish-men-chased-brooklyn-woman-after-mistaking-her-for-protester-against-israeli-security-minister

Yeah that’s completely disgusting and inexcusable. But it’s a bunch of ultra-religious hasids in crown heights. They’re essentially a fringe cult that lives in isolation from society. The Glastonbury festival incident was a bunch of otherwise sane, normal, mainstream people. That’s what makes it especially scary. These views are becoming absolutely commonplace.

How about when hundreds of Israelis sang "Death to Arabs" and "F*** the Arabs" on the streets of Amsterdam last year?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HRUV86bVa0

Does that meet your or PP's qualifications?

1 - Massive crowd (video of hundreds of Israelis)
2 - In the West (Amsterdam)
3 - Not in Israel at the time
4 - Not ultra religious fringe cult living in isolation (Israeli soccer fans from Tel Aviv traveling to another country to attend the game)

In East Jerusalem, some far right Jewish groups also put graffiti and urinate by ancient churches. I don’t know why the anti Christian nature is glossed over in the discussion of the Israeli far right. They don’t just hate Muslims. In fact, they hate Christians even more I’d argue

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not just foreign nationals on college campuses. Now, Bands that have suggested the IDF be dismantled are banned from touring in America... It's perfectly fine to say "Defund the police" after a few rogue police officers (in some badly run police departments) kill some African Americans, but criticize the IDF or Israeli government (an organization which has no killed 60,000 or so and maybe 3-4 times that, while displacing and actively starving an entire country) and your visa is immediately revoked to perform as concerts in the US.

Is anyone else not seeing this lunacy and the complete double standard of all of this?

Some very reasonable solutions have been put forth in congress - like you should disclose if you possess foreign citizenship while running for office. I wonder if that will help us elucidate some things...

Nice try, OP.
This rapper led a cheer yelling “death, death to the IDF.” He encouraged thousands to join in.
I suppose had he led a chant yelling “death, death to the Palestines” you would feel the same way?

Looks like he FAFO.

There are plenty of Israeli singers who are on video singing about death to Gaza (Rinat Bar) or like the lovely Israeli singer Peretz who has a song titled “May your village burn”. But they are Israelis and nobody bats an eye if they sing about the death of Palestinians.

Listen. I’m sure there are plenty of examples of extreme rhetoric and hate speech on both the Israeli and Palestinian sides IN Israel and Palestine. Those are the directly impacted parties. The rhetoric on the Palestinian side is MUCH worse by orders of magnitude based on what I’ve seen, but setting that aside.

Have you ever seen a massive crowd IN THE WEST shouting DEATH to anyone before? I certainly haven’t. That’s not a thing that’s considered compatible with western values. Unless, apparently, Israel/Jews are involved. Why is that?

Yes. Lots of times. Have you been outside at any rally? I’ve heard death to cops during 2020 and lots of other crazy things during protests. Madonna threatened to blow up the White House at the women’s March. Many people scream for death or destruction during protests. Rallies or protests are magnets for the crazies/fringe. In Israel during Pride month before 10/7, death to Arab and death to lgbt rallies were hosted by Ben Gvir , the minister of national security and grand Marshall of ceremonies.

I genuinely just did a Google search and couldn’t find one documented instance of people shouting DEATH to something in America. I’ve heard F the police and whatnot but never death. Feel free to drop a link if you find one. Madonna didn’t threaten to blow up the White House and if you read her actual words it’s clear she was being flippant. And again, your last example happened in Israel (assuming it happened, I didn’t check).

I’m shocked you couldn’t come up with one example. Do you not recall January 6th and the death to Nancy Pelosi cries and the calls to HANG Mike Pence? Have you not watched the news in the past 10 years?

[Anonymous]

Remember when Kathy Griffin carried a model of Trump’s severed head?

[Anonymous]

Even during the La anti-ICE raids last week, there were death threats and Kill trump signs posted and burned Us flags, many of these acts done by American leftists not immigrants. Protests always attract the fringe and are magnets for extreme language and acts

https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-death-threats-emerge-amid-los-angeles-riots-secret-service-aware.amp

[Anonymous]

Remember when Trump’s ear was shot?

[Anonymous]

I remember in NYC, there were massive demonstrations and protestors against the Iraq war blocking the bush motorcade before the 2004 Republican convention and I heard protestors with my own ears screaming burn bush, and calling the war a lie. I was surprised by the volume of anti war demonstrators in the city even back then. I don’t think the RNC has returned to nyc since

[Anonymous]

Someone tried to assassinate Trump. It would wager they wanted him dead.

[Anonymous]

Remember when Antifa burned police stations and banks?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, two things. First, they didn't say "dismantle the IDF" they said "Kill the IDF." Those are not the same things. One calls for disbanding an army and the other is a call for murder. So let's be honest about the situation.

Second, and I say this as proud Jew AND a proud Zionist, I am deeply bothered by the special status the government is giving in regards speaking out against Israel and Jews. This double standard--DEI is bad except when it comes to Jews and/or Israel--is not going to do us any favors with people who already hate us. Jews don't do well historically when people can point to us and say we get special things other people don't. Most of the people I know agree with this discomfort and I've read a few articles in the Jewish media pushing back against this idea. Don't get me wrong, I find what the band said appaling and ugly, but I don't agree that it alone should make them ineligible to enter the US.

Is your issue that its wrong or that the blowback tends to be historically bad? I cant tell....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Even during the La anti-ICE raids last week, there were death threats and Kill trump signs posted and burned Us flags, many of these acts done by American leftists not immigrants. Protests always attract the fringe and are magnets for extreme language and acts

https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-death-threats-emerge-amid-los-angeles-riots-secret-service-aware.amp

To the PP who posted the video of Israeli soccer fans - these are Israelis. Again, disgusting and inexcusable, but you’re going to see speech like this among actual impacted groups (Israelis and Palestinians alike, although FAR, FAR more common in the Palestinian side).

I have never seen a massive crowd of otherwise normal, sane Westerners shout “DEATH TO ___.” This was on the main stage at Glastonbury. The frightening part, and what I’m trying to get across, is that these views are becoming MAINSTREAMED. Yeah, you might see isolated incidents of posters, graffiti, etc. at political PROTESTS, but have you ever seen anything akin to this Glastonbury incident? I have not. These are not “the fringe.” These are just regular concertgoers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Even during the La anti-ICE raids last week, there were death threats and Kill trump signs posted and burned Us flags, many of these acts done by American leftists not immigrants. Protests always attract the fringe and are magnets for extreme language and acts

https://www.foxnews.com/us/trump-death-threats-emerge-amid-los-angeles-riots-secret-service-aware.amp

To the PP who posted the video of Israeli soccer fans - these are Israelis. Again, disgusting and inexcusable, but you’re going to see speech like this among actual impacted groups (Israelis and Palestinians alike, although FAR, FAR more common in the Palestinian side).

I have never seen a massive crowd of otherwise normal, sane Westerners shout “DEATH TO ___.” This was on the main stage at Glastonbury. The frightening part, and what I’m trying to get across, is that these views are becoming MAINSTREAMED. Yeah, you might see isolated incidents of posters, graffiti, etc. at political PROTESTS, but have you ever seen anything akin to this Glastonbury incident? I have not. These are not “the fringe.” These are just regular concertgoers.

The difference is talk verses action. Here in the US if someone wants to kill people they just do it. They don’t advertise it so much. We have guns here with minimal background checks, hence all the mass shootings in the past 30 years.