How do people live on 160k?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly do not know.

I mean here inside the beltway I don't know.

Sure if I'm in St Louis or something but I honestly don't know how you even enjoy your life on that esp if 2 kids.

Min 300k with 2 teens. Min. And that's rarely going out and limited vacation joys. Sorry but camping and eating beans and rice for every holiday is not my idea of fun times. Maybe once in awhile but folks who keep saying you can have fun just camping have never done more. I love nature but even getting there and doing stuff that's interesting can sometimes cost more than $10 you know? And forget about eating out more than like 2x/month if you have older kids.

I honestly don't know how people do it. We are $350k and it's not like we're big spenders. We don't have a lawn service. We don't drive new cars. But we do have 2 kids and 1 has learning disabilities so we pay a lot for tutoring and therapy.

I don't get where your money goes. We make half and have a SN child as well and pay for tons of tutoring (as in 10-15 hours a week or more) plus therapies, plus at one point caring for a family member. We spend what we want now as house is paid off (we paid it off in 16 years) and have college funds for a state college and grad school.

Are you frigging kidding? I don't know where you live but where we live, a babysitter is $20/hr, 2 years ago so do the math from there. The lunches in my hood start at $20 for a sandwich min.

Between 2 activities for a kid, LD therapy + tutoring for the other, a couple (not luxe) vacations just to keep our sanity because you know 9 weeks in the summertime without doing anything year after year will suck, eating out a few times as a family a month, all the actual bills like property which is sky high and of course 2 cars + utilities + insurance + 401k and even though our mortgage is so low it's unbelievable, college and some emergency savings, yes, we are just comfortable. Do you know how much summer stuff is for 2 kids ages 12 and 14? Unless you're sending them to idiot summer camp, the really interesting ones are going to be in the thousands. We do everything for our kids because they want to learn and do stuff so yeah, it's an easy $8k/kid during summer for their stuff. And unless you're eating regularly at Appleby's I'm not sure how you're not dropping a buck on a family dinner at a regular sit down restaurant when you eat out. Do the math from $20k a month net and subtract everything I've just listed - we're happy if we end up with $2500 left over each month to savings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 20+ year old cars we drive until they fall apart. Also, don't eat out at all and don't have pets.

I am a SAHW. I have been running the house on 10K monthly for past 20 years (post tax). He pays all the taxes, Social security, IRA, pension plan, investments and medical coverage. Of course, earlier I had kids living with us too but now we are mostly empty nesters. We are living quite lavishly

-Mortgage - 2300
-Food - 1500
-Utilities, internet, subscriptions, insurance, gas, office parking, cleaner, lawn person, co-pay, office lunch, - 2500
-Socializing and entertaining (including catering help) - 1000
-My kid needs room and board in college so that is usually - 1500
I still have around 1-2K left with me each month.

When kids were younger, I paid for tutors and other needs of the kids too. I always had money left. So, I saved for college, weddings, travel, gifts etc.

Catering help? Lawn, cleaner…do it yourself.

Our big expense is tutoring and sports-music lessons and activities. We make slightly less, paid off the house, no debt and will pay cash for our next car.

Sure. You can and we actually did it ourselves when we had less income, more expenses and wanted to also save for future. Compounding is magic. Keeping costs down and paying ourselves first was something we always did.

Having a low mortgage, driving reliable mid-price Japanese cars, no student debt, no childcare cost, no private schools, cooking from scratch, only 2 kids and no pets - all of these allowed us the luxury to grow our wealth, so that we are in a position to help our kids and grandkids too.

That seems silly if you are not working. I'd rather do those things to pay for more things for my kids.

I think it is a cultural difference in how you and I think. I am highly educated and being a SAHM was a strategic decision once my DH's salary reached a level where we knew we could do with his earnings.

We had a vision for what lifestyle we wanted and how we wanted to raise our kids. We were successful in that.

I make $250K ($11K/m take home after retirement/deductions) and wouldn’t describe myself as living richly nor would I want to support a spouse and two kids alone on this salary.

That's really a "you" problem. If your basic COL is too high (housing, childcare, student debt, schooling) then you are basically running in circles to make more and more to pay for things. The more you earn, the less time you have to do other things, and the more you have to outsource.

And there is a limit to what you can outsource. A nanny is not better than an educated and loving mother is who is present and involved.

NP - you PP is the problem. People like you talk about how others should be saving more/doing less/making more, etc etc. Listen up - $250k in this area - if Arlington/Del Ray/NW DC - that is nothing. I tell you, with 2+ kids, it's nothing. The amount of money we all need to be comfortable (and no - comfortable DOES NOT mean, only camp vacations and making every single meal of your life) is a lot. Does it mean you can take $15k holidays every year or go on vacation around the world every year? Of course not. Does it mean your car payment can't be less than $800/mo? Of course not. But property taxes are high. Any house you would have brought may be reasonable for mortgage but add property tax and it's at least $3500-4500 for both. Add on insurance and any issues your kids may have or any activities they do.

It's just not about outsourcing but yeah, definitely having a cleaning lady will keep your sanity. It's about living your life in a way that makes you not hate your life. So when people talk about how they can be really frugal like it's something everyone should learn to do, sorry but not everyone ones that kind of I have to do every single damn thing myself at every minute kinda life. They don't. I don't. We had a nanny share when my kids were young with no family around and 2 work out of the house parents for my kids and we just didn't have a choice but once they hit elementary school, we stopped. I do not have someone to drive my kids around, I don't have a housekeeper but I do have carpools. I do have a cleaning lady. And thank god I have that kind of help because I would slash my wrists without any support. So I get why for some people, $250k really isn't that much. I wish people would judge you as you judge others so readily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After taxes that’s a take home of almost 10k per month. Someone show us your budget on this salary.

No, you have to put aside $30K pretax for retirement annually so it’s less.

IRS limits are 23,500.

250000-23500*.75 (because let’s get real that’s the high side of what i pay when taxes are complete) = $169875 Net Income/12= $14,156/mo

It’s $30K if you are >50 years old. Add backdoor roth another $7K. HDHP with HSA another $3400-7K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I honestly do not know.

I mean here inside the beltway I don't know.

Sure if I'm in St Louis or something but I honestly don't know how you even enjoy your life on that esp if 2 kids.

Min 300k with 2 teens. Min. And that's rarely going out and limited vacation joys. Sorry but camping and eating beans and rice for every holiday is not my idea of fun times. Maybe once in awhile but folks who keep saying you can have fun just camping have never done more. I love nature but even getting there and doing stuff that's interesting can sometimes cost more than $10 you know? And forget about eating out more than like 2x/month if you have older kids.

I honestly don't know how people do it. We are $350k and it's not like we're big spenders. We don't have a lawn service. We don't drive new cars. But we do have 2 kids and 1 has learning disabilities so we pay a lot for tutoring and therapy.

I don't get where your money goes. We make half and have a SN child as well and pay for tons of tutoring (as in 10-15 hours a week or more) plus therapies, plus at one point caring for a family member. We spend what we want now as house is paid off (we paid it off in 16 years) and have college funds for a state college and grad school.

Are you frigging kidding? I don't know where you live but where we live, a babysitter is $20/hr, 2 years ago so do the math from there. The lunches in my hood start at $20 for a sandwich min.

Between 2 activities for a kid, LD therapy + tutoring for the other, a couple (not luxe) vacations just to keep our sanity because you know 9 weeks in the summertime without doing anything year after year will suck, eating out a few times as a family a month, all the actual bills like property which is sky high and of course 2 cars + utilities + insurance + 401k and even though our mortgage is so low it's unbelievable, college and some emergency savings, yes, we are just comfortable. Do you know how much summer stuff is for 2 kids ages 12 and 14? Unless you're sending them to idiot summer camp, the really interesting ones are going to be in the thousands. We do everything for our kids because they want to learn and do stuff so yeah, it's an easy $8k/kid during summer for their stuff. And unless you're eating regularly at Appleby's I'm not sure how you're not dropping a buck on a family dinner at a regular sit down restaurant when you eat out. Do the math from $20k a month net and subtract everything I've just listed - we're happy if we end up with $2500 left over each month to savings.

Exactly. We’ve never used a babysitter, we don’t buy $8 sandwiches very often and we haven’t had a vacation in years. We paid off our mortgage in 15 years, no family help, saved for a state college and grad school. We used to eat out a lot and now irs twice a week. Applebees is fine with us. In the past we’ve done 3 one week summer camps plus sports and pool. Kids have done summer school a bunch of years too, some at a private school, now public but that’s paid. We spend a fortune on tutors, sports and music. It’s all lifestyle choice. We pay cash for our cars new and drive them till it’s no longer reasonable, so usually 12-16 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 20+ year old cars we drive until they fall apart. Also, don't eat out at all and don't have pets.

I am a SAHW. I have been running the house on 10K monthly for past 20 years (post tax). He pays all the taxes, Social security, IRA, pension plan, investments and medical coverage. Of course, earlier I had kids living with us too but now we are mostly empty nesters. We are living quite lavishly

-Mortgage - 2300
-Food - 1500
-Utilities, internet, subscriptions, insurance, gas, office parking, cleaner, lawn person, co-pay, office lunch, - 2500
-Socializing and entertaining (including catering help) - 1000
-My kid needs room and board in college so that is usually - 1500
I still have around 1-2K left with me each month.

When kids were younger, I paid for tutors and other needs of the kids too. I always had money left. So, I saved for college, weddings, travel, gifts etc.

Catering help? Lawn, cleaner…do it yourself.

Our big expense is tutoring and sports-music lessons and activities. We make slightly less, paid off the house, no debt and will pay cash for our next car.

Sure. You can and we actually did it ourselves when we had less income, more expenses and wanted to also save for future. Compounding is magic. Keeping costs down and paying ourselves first was something we always did.

Having a low mortgage, driving reliable mid-price Japanese cars, no student debt, no childcare cost, no private schools, cooking from scratch, only 2 kids and no pets - all of these allowed us the luxury to grow our wealth, so that we are in a position to help our kids and grandkids too.

That seems silly if you are not working. I'd rather do those things to pay for more things for my kids.

I think it is a cultural difference in how you and I think. I am highly educated and being a SAHM was a strategic decision once my DH's salary reached a level where we knew we could do with his earnings.

We had a vision for what lifestyle we wanted and how we wanted to raise our kids. We were successful in that.

I make $250K ($11K/m take home after retirement/deductions) and wouldn’t describe myself as living richly nor would I want to support a spouse and two kids alone on this salary.

That's really a "you" problem. If your basic COL is too high (housing, childcare, student debt, schooling) then you are basically running in circles to make more and more to pay for things. The more you earn, the less time you have to do other things, and the more you have to outsource.

And there is a limit to what you can outsource. A nanny is not better than an educated and loving mother is who is present and involved.

NP - you PP is the problem. People like you talk about how others should be saving more/doing less/making more, etc etc. Listen up - $250k in this area - if Arlington/Del Ray/NW DC - that is nothing. I tell you, with 2+ kids, it's nothing. The amount of money we all need to be comfortable (and no - comfortable DOES NOT mean, only camp vacations and making every single meal of your life) is a lot. Does it mean you can take $15k holidays every year or go on vacation around the world every year? Of course not. Does it mean your car payment can't be less than $800/mo? Of course not. But property taxes are high. Any house you would have brought may be reasonable for mortgage but add property tax and it's at least $3500-4500 for both. Add on insurance and any issues your kids may have or any activities they do.

It's just not about outsourcing but yeah, definitely having a cleaning lady will keep your sanity. It's about living your life in a way that makes you not hate your life. So when people talk about how they can be really frugal like it's something everyone should learn to do, sorry but not everyone ones that kind of I have to do every single damn thing myself at every minute kinda life. They don't. I don't. We had a nanny share when my kids were young with no family around and 2 work out of the house parents for my kids and we just didn't have a choice but once they hit elementary school, we stopped. I do not have someone to drive my kids around, I don't have a housekeeper but I do have carpools. I do have a cleaning lady. And thank god I have that kind of help because I would slash my wrists without any support. So I get why for some people, $250k really isn't that much. I wish people would judge you as you judge others so readily.

It’s all about choices. We save and pay cash for cars. Last car was $50k but why not? We don’t really vacation but if we did we’d find ways to keep costs down. We did Disney a lot when kids were little. No nanny or child care costs. It is a huge amount. Our property taxes are about $5k for a tiny crummy house. We pay cash at the first bill. I am the driver, housekeeper, home repair. Spouse drives, yard work, house repair. We do get groceries delivered as it’s cheaper. You need to get mental health treatment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 20+ year old cars we drive until they fall apart. Also, don't eat out at all and don't have pets.

I am a SAHW. I have been running the house on 10K monthly for past 20 years (post tax). He pays all the taxes, Social security, IRA, pension plan, investments and medical coverage. Of course, earlier I had kids living with us too but now we are mostly empty nesters. We are living quite lavishly

-Mortgage - 2300
-Food - 1500
-Utilities, internet, subscriptions, insurance, gas, office parking, cleaner, lawn person, co-pay, office lunch, - 2500
-Socializing and entertaining (including catering help) - 1000
-My kid needs room and board in college so that is usually - 1500
I still have around 1-2K left with me each month.

When kids were younger, I paid for tutors and other needs of the kids too. I always had money left. So, I saved for college, weddings, travel, gifts etc.

Catering help? Lawn, cleaner…do it yourself.

Our big expense is tutoring and sports-music lessons and activities. We make slightly less, paid off the house, no debt and will pay cash for our next car.

Sure. You can and we actually did it ourselves when we had less income, more expenses and wanted to also save for future. Compounding is magic. Keeping costs down and paying ourselves first was something we always did.

Having a low mortgage, driving reliable mid-price Japanese cars, no student debt, no childcare cost, no private schools, cooking from scratch, only 2 kids and no pets - all of these allowed us the luxury to grow our wealth, so that we are in a position to help our kids and grandkids too.

That seems silly if you are not working. I'd rather do those things to pay for more things for my kids.

I think it is a cultural difference in how you and I think. I am highly educated and being a SAHM was a strategic decision once my DH's salary reached a level where we knew we could do with his earnings.

We had a vision for what lifestyle we wanted and how we wanted to raise our kids. We were successful in that.

I make $250K ($11K/m take home after retirement/deductions) and wouldn’t describe myself as living richly nor would I want to support a spouse and two kids alone on this salary.

Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 20+ year old cars we drive until they fall apart. Also, don't eat out at all and don't have pets.

I am a SAHW. I have been running the house on 10K monthly for past 20 years (post tax). He pays all the taxes, Social security, IRA, pension plan, investments and medical coverage. Of course, earlier I had kids living with us too but now we are mostly empty nesters. We are living quite lavishly

-Mortgage - 2300
-Food - 1500
-Utilities, internet, subscriptions, insurance, gas, office parking, cleaner, lawn person, co-pay, office lunch, - 2500
-Socializing and entertaining (including catering help) - 1000
-My kid needs room and board in college so that is usually - 1500
I still have around 1-2K left with me each month.

When kids were younger, I paid for tutors and other needs of the kids too. I always had money left. So, I saved for college, weddings, travel, gifts etc.

Catering help? Lawn, cleaner…do it yourself.

Our big expense is tutoring and sports-music lessons and activities. We make slightly less, paid off the house, no debt and will pay cash for our next car.

Sure. You can and we actually did it ourselves when we had less income, more expenses and wanted to also save for future. Compounding is magic. Keeping costs down and paying ourselves first was something we always did.

Having a low mortgage, driving reliable mid-price Japanese cars, no student debt, no childcare cost, no private schools, cooking from scratch, only 2 kids and no pets - all of these allowed us the luxury to grow our wealth, so that we are in a position to help our kids and grandkids too.

That seems silly if you are not working. I'd rather do those things to pay for more things for my kids.

I think it is a cultural difference in how you and I think. I am highly educated and being a SAHM was a strategic decision once my DH's salary reached a level where we knew we could do with his earnings.

We had a vision for what lifestyle we wanted and how we wanted to raise our kids. We were successful in that.

I make $250K ($11K/m take home after retirement/deductions) and wouldn’t describe myself as living richly nor would I want to support a spouse and two kids alone on this salary.

Easy. I would take $3k of it and double it in the market every few months.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We have 20+ year old cars we drive until they fall apart. Also, don't eat out at all and don't have pets.

I am a SAHW. I have been running the house on 10K monthly for past 20 years (post tax). He pays all the taxes, Social security, IRA, pension plan, investments and medical coverage. Of course, earlier I had kids living with us too but now we are mostly empty nesters. We are living quite lavishly

-Mortgage - 2300
-Food - 1500
-Utilities, internet, subscriptions, insurance, gas, office parking, cleaner, lawn person, co-pay, office lunch, - 2500
-Socializing and entertaining (including catering help) - 1000
-My kid needs room and board in college so that is usually - 1500
I still have around 1-2K left with me each month.

When kids were younger, I paid for tutors and other needs of the kids too. I always had money left. So, I saved for college, weddings, travel, gifts etc.

Catering help? Lawn, cleaner…do it yourself.

Our big expense is tutoring and sports-music lessons and activities. We make slightly less, paid off the house, no debt and will pay cash for our next car.

Sure. You can and we actually did it ourselves when we had less income, more expenses and wanted to also save for future. Compounding is magic. Keeping costs down and paying ourselves first was something we always did.

Having a low mortgage, driving reliable mid-price Japanese cars, no student debt, no childcare cost, no private schools, cooking from scratch, only 2 kids and no pets - all of these allowed us the luxury to grow our wealth, so that we are in a position to help our kids and grandkids too.

That seems silly if you are not working. I'd rather do those things to pay for more things for my kids.

I think it is a cultural difference in how you and I think. I am highly educated and being a SAHM was a strategic decision once my DH's salary reached a level where we knew we could do with his earnings.

We had a vision for what lifestyle we wanted and how we wanted to raise our kids. We were successful in that.

I make $250K ($11K/m take home after retirement/deductions) and wouldn’t describe myself as living richly nor would I want to support a spouse and two kids alone on this salary.

That's really a "you" problem. If your basic COL is too high (housing, childcare, student debt, schooling) then you are basically running in circles to make more and more to pay for things. The more you earn, the less time you have to do other things, and the more you have to outsource.

And there is a limit to what you can outsource. A nanny is not better than an educated and loving mother is who is present and involved.

It’s not. I have no mortgage, paid off car, no childcare costs, and one child. My publicly educated child has an highly educated, loving, present mother who WFH. The only things we outsource are math tutor, summer lawnmowing and biweekly house cleaning. Saving for college, retirement and summers are expensive. Everything day to day is expensive. We are okay, but I would not want to support four people on this salary.

It is hard to do an apples to apples comparison, really. I mean you can say anything and say that it is hard and expensive, but just the amount you alone earn is enough for my household to become wealthy.

It really depends on your age, your kid's age, culture, obligations, financial management etc. Did you ever pay for childcare for your kid? How much do you spend on going to work?

How much are you saving for college? How much are you saving for retirement? How much on EC activities? How much on socializing? How much on therapy, dental work, beauty treatments, eating out, groceries etc? Are you looking after pets, grandparents? How come you have no mortgage? Did you buy the house you live in?

I have friends who live a luxurious lifestyle but are absolutely torn apart of they have to replace their AC. Haven't saved for their kids but are happy to send them to low ranked party schools with zero merit aid. I love them but their financial choices makes my heart palpitate.

I am sorry but if you are making $200K and above - you are wealthy even in DMV.

We make less, zero family help, and we can replace the ac or car no problem. Need a new car soon with rto. I will send my kids to the best fit that we can afford with cash, I don’t care about ranking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'd love it if we made $160k per year!

We're a two-teacher household squeaking by on $122/year. No kids yet and honestly, not sure if we can afford them.

We only have 1 car because we teach at the same school. It is paid off. DH has no student loans and I only carry ~$10k now.

We rent @ $2400/mo. We can't get approved for a mortgage - that would be lower than our monthly rent - but we've never once missed a rent payment or even made one late (due on 1st of month but you get a grace period until the 5th). We keep saving as much as we can for a higher downpayment but it's frustrating.

We are thinking of taking the hit to our relatively new teaching careers and moving to a cheaper state where we could afford a house. We've both only been teaching for 3 years. I'd rather leave now and only need to restart after 3 years instead of trying to tough it out here to end up with no house, no kids, no life other than paycheck-to-paycheck.

Get out while you can! There's teaching jobs all over the country, and you and live on a lot less.