How to handle this situation?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

I would suggest either he gets them mental health care, he allows you to get them mental health care (if you're willing to let him abdicate as a parent and do the work for him), or you give up on ever having both sets of kids together, or you break up with him and date someone else. Or I guess you can see how things go, maybe they'll get mental health care on their own, anything's possible.

As the kid in this situation, I just hate to see my mom's retirement being so consumed with the mental health problems of her partner's adult children. And I'm not willing to bring my own children to my mom's for the holidays because of the mental health behaviors. It's sad. I much prefer my mom to have a partner in life, but I think she would be much better off if she had chosen someone else to date, who didn't bring all these problems to the relationship. It's not his fault that his children have mental health problems, but he's never been willing to deal with it effectively and it's affecting my mom a lot. She's an adult and she made her choice, but I'm not willing to go along with it as if everything's fine.

It's hard for me to say your situation is like ours. His kids are well adjusted for the most part--get good grades, on track for college, have friends, have sports, get along with their dad. So there is no "mental health" breakdown except that they have a non-existent, very unwell parent who has convinced them that her failings are all because of their dad (and me/my kids) and like all kids, they're protective of their mom to an irrational extent and behave accordingly.

Okay, and is this "irrational" behavior going to go poof 5 years from now when you move in together? You've said that right now you can't get two family outings a year to go well. So why would you set up a situation where if your children want to come home for a holiday, they have to be around his children? Or is it your hope that his children will not show up? What does parenting adult children look like for him and you and your kids, in this relationship?

Yes. Childish tantrums may as well go poof in 5 years as his kids mature and get a different perspective on life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP they are freezing you out on purpose because they know that if they're nice to you, you'll escalate your demands. You have an image of a blended family in your mind and if they show you any minor courtesy it makes you think you can implement it. So they have to be super cold to you to stop you from pressuring them. It's like when someone wants to date you and you don't want to date them-- they can't give you any encouragement and mixed messages make it worse. My mom is like this too, so I've had a freeze on her boyfriend and his family for 20 years. It isn't gonna change.

You need to ask yourself how this looks 5, 10, 15 years from now. Because they aren't going to come around. Your kids can spend holidays with your ex, I hope, if you choose this situation over time with your kids. His kids have nowhere else to go. So are you hoping they never come home? I just don't see how these ingredients produce an acceptable family life for anyone.

15 years from now his kids will be adults. Are you seriously advocating adult kids having veto power over their divorced parent's choice of new partner? I get that you may not like that your father has a new partner, but if you're an adult, your choices are to accept it or to stay away. If you must get together for holidays, it looks sort of childish to affect complete coldness out of fear that you may be pressured to do more if you show the slightest bit of courtesy.

I'm not advocating veto power, I'm suggesting to OP that she needs to consider her options. This may never change. Her boyfriend is not willing to do anything about it. Seems like a roll of the dice whether they will come around, at best. She has a boyfriend problem here.

Unfortunately my coldness to my mother's partner and his kids is necessary because it's the only way to get my mother to respect my boundaries. I wish we could all be cordially impersonal, but time has taught me that she will never settle for less than the close "blended" family of her imagination and will never acknowledge the very real obstacles to that happening. So, coldness it is. I genuinely wish it were different, but when people can't accept that others have boundaries, relationships don't go well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

I would suggest either he gets them mental health care, he allows you to get them mental health care (if you're willing to let him abdicate as a parent and do the work for him), or you give up on ever having both sets of kids together, or you break up with him and date someone else. Or I guess you can see how things go, maybe they'll get mental health care on their own, anything's possible.

As the kid in this situation, I just hate to see my mom's retirement being so consumed with the mental health problems of her partner's adult children. And I'm not willing to bring my own children to my mom's for the holidays because of the mental health behaviors. It's sad. I much prefer my mom to have a partner in life, but I think she would be much better off if she had chosen someone else to date, who didn't bring all these problems to the relationship. It's not his fault that his children have mental health problems, but he's never been willing to deal with it effectively and it's affecting my mom a lot. She's an adult and she made her choice, but I'm not willing to go along with it as if everything's fine.

It's hard for me to say your situation is like ours. His kids are well adjusted for the most part--get good grades, on track for college, have friends, have sports, get along with their dad. So there is no "mental health" breakdown except that they have a non-existent, very unwell parent who has convinced them that her failings are all because of their dad (and me/my kids) and like all kids, they're protective of their mom to an irrational extent and behave accordingly.

Okay, and is this "irrational" behavior going to go poof 5 years from now when you move in together? You've said that right now you can't get two family outings a year to go well. So why would you set up a situation where if your children want to come home for a holiday, they have to be around his children? Or is it your hope that his children will not show up? What does parenting adult children look like for him and you and your kids, in this relationship?

Yes. Childish tantrums may as well go poof in 5 years as his kids mature and get a different perspective on life.

Or maybe they still won't like OP. Lots of people don't like their stepfamily and it's not a tantrum. People are allowed to not like other people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP they are freezing you out on purpose because they know that if they're nice to you, you'll escalate your demands. You have an image of a blended family in your mind and if they show you any minor courtesy it makes you think you can implement it. So they have to be super cold to you to stop you from pressuring them. It's like when someone wants to date you and you don't want to date them-- they can't give you any encouragement and mixed messages make it worse. My mom is like this too, so I've had a freeze on her boyfriend and his family for 20 years. It isn't gonna change.

You need to ask yourself how this looks 5, 10, 15 years from now. Because they aren't going to come around. Your kids can spend holidays with your ex, I hope, if you choose this situation over time with your kids. His kids have nowhere else to go. So are you hoping they never come home? I just don't see how these ingredients produce an acceptable family life for anyone.

15 years from now his kids will be adults. Are you seriously advocating adult kids having veto power over their divorced parent's choice of new partner? I get that you may not like that your father has a new partner, but if you're an adult, your choices are to accept it or to stay away. If you must get together for holidays, it looks sort of childish to affect complete coldness out of fear that you may be pressured to do more if you show the slightest bit of courtesy.

I'm not advocating veto power, I'm suggesting to OP that she needs to consider her options. This may never change. Her boyfriend is not willing to do anything about it. Seems like a roll of the dice whether they will come around, at best. She has a boyfriend problem here.

Unfortunately my coldness to my mother's partner and his kids is necessary because it's the only way to get my mother to respect my boundaries. I wish we could all be cordially impersonal, but time has taught me that she will never settle for less than the close "blended" family of her imagination and will never acknowledge the very real obstacles to that happening. So, coldness it is. I genuinely wish it were different, but when people can't accept that others have boundaries, relationships don't go well.

Your answers are informed by your own scenario that may well have nothing to do with what OP is dealing with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP they are freezing you out on purpose because they know that if they're nice to you, you'll escalate your demands. You have an image of a blended family in your mind and if they show you any minor courtesy it makes you think you can implement it. So they have to be super cold to you to stop you from pressuring them. It's like when someone wants to date you and you don't want to date them-- they can't give you any encouragement and mixed messages make it worse. My mom is like this too, so I've had a freeze on her boyfriend and his family for 20 years. It isn't gonna change.

You need to ask yourself how this looks 5, 10, 15 years from now. Because they aren't going to come around. Your kids can spend holidays with your ex, I hope, if you choose this situation over time with your kids. His kids have nowhere else to go. So are you hoping they never come home? I just don't see how these ingredients produce an acceptable family life for anyone.

15 years from now his kids will be adults. Are you seriously advocating adult kids having veto power over their divorced parent's choice of new partner? I get that you may not like that your father has a new partner, but if you're an adult, your choices are to accept it or to stay away. If you must get together for holidays, it looks sort of childish to affect complete coldness out of fear that you may be pressured to do more if you show the slightest bit of courtesy.

Well yes, so does OP think the future holds many happy holidays that are boycotted by his kids? And that he'll be happy with that as the status quo? It doesn't sound so great to me. Not saying the kids should have veto power or that they are right to avoid (though they may be, I don't know), I'm just saying does OP see her relationship thriving if this is how things shake out with his kids? Or the same if her kids choose to avoid-- will OP be happy with that outcome in the long run?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP they are freezing you out on purpose because they know that if they're nice to you, you'll escalate your demands. You have an image of a blended family in your mind and if they show you any minor courtesy it makes you think you can implement it. So they have to be super cold to you to stop you from pressuring them. It's like when someone wants to date you and you don't want to date them-- they can't give you any encouragement and mixed messages make it worse. My mom is like this too, so I've had a freeze on her boyfriend and his family for 20 years. It isn't gonna change.

You need to ask yourself how this looks 5, 10, 15 years from now. Because they aren't going to come around. Your kids can spend holidays with your ex, I hope, if you choose this situation over time with your kids. His kids have nowhere else to go. So are you hoping they never come home? I just don't see how these ingredients produce an acceptable family life for anyone.

15 years from now his kids will be adults. Are you seriously advocating adult kids having veto power over their divorced parent's choice of new partner? I get that you may not like that your father has a new partner, but if you're an adult, your choices are to accept it or to stay away. If you must get together for holidays, it looks sort of childish to affect complete coldness out of fear that you may be pressured to do more if you show the slightest bit of courtesy.

I'm not advocating veto power, I'm suggesting to OP that she needs to consider her options. This may never change. Her boyfriend is not willing to do anything about it. Seems like a roll of the dice whether they will come around, at best. She has a boyfriend problem here.

Unfortunately my coldness to my mother's partner and his kids is necessary because it's the only way to get my mother to respect my boundaries. I wish we could all be cordially impersonal, but time has taught me that she will never settle for less than the close "blended" family of her imagination and will never acknowledge the very real obstacles to that happening. So, coldness it is. I genuinely wish it were different, but when people can't accept that others have boundaries, relationships don't go well.

Your answers are informed by your own scenario that may well have nothing to do with what OP is dealing with.

No, my answers are informed by what OP has said. The kids don't like her, the boyfriend won't do anything about it. There's no reason to think this will change. Stay or go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

I would suggest either he gets them mental health care, he allows you to get them mental health care (if you're willing to let him abdicate as a parent and do the work for him), or you give up on ever having both sets of kids together, or you break up with him and date someone else. Or I guess you can see how things go, maybe they'll get mental health care on their own, anything's possible.

As the kid in this situation, I just hate to see my mom's retirement being so consumed with the mental health problems of her partner's adult children. And I'm not willing to bring my own children to my mom's for the holidays because of the mental health behaviors. It's sad. I much prefer my mom to have a partner in life, but I think she would be much better off if she had chosen someone else to date, who didn't bring all these problems to the relationship. It's not his fault that his children have mental health problems, but he's never been willing to deal with it effectively and it's affecting my mom a lot. She's an adult and she made her choice, but I'm not willing to go along with it as if everything's fine.

It's hard for me to say your situation is like ours. His kids are well adjusted for the most part--get good grades, on track for college, have friends, have sports, get along with their dad. So there is no "mental health" breakdown except that they have a non-existent, very unwell parent who has convinced them that her failings are all because of their dad (and me/my kids) and like all kids, they're protective of their mom to an irrational extent and behave accordingly.

Okay, and is this "irrational" behavior going to go poof 5 years from now when you move in together? You've said that right now you can't get two family outings a year to go well. So why would you set up a situation where if your children want to come home for a holiday, they have to be around his children? Or is it your hope that his children will not show up? What does parenting adult children look like for him and you and your kids, in this relationship?

Yes. Childish tantrums may as well go poof in 5 years as his kids mature and get a different perspective on life.

Or maybe they still won't like OP. Lots of people don't like their stepfamily and it's not a tantrum. People are allowed to not like other people.

That's true, and sometimes blood family siblings don't like each other either. But I've never seen anyone advocate that one's parent disowns a disliked sibling because "no one has to like each other." People are allowed not to like each other, and other people are allowed to ignore it or not give it outsize importance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

I would suggest either he gets them mental health care, he allows you to get them mental health care (if you're willing to let him abdicate as a parent and do the work for him), or you give up on ever having both sets of kids together, or you break up with him and date someone else. Or I guess you can see how things go, maybe they'll get mental health care on their own, anything's possible.

As the kid in this situation, I just hate to see my mom's retirement being so consumed with the mental health problems of her partner's adult children. And I'm not willing to bring my own children to my mom's for the holidays because of the mental health behaviors. It's sad. I much prefer my mom to have a partner in life, but I think she would be much better off if she had chosen someone else to date, who didn't bring all these problems to the relationship. It's not his fault that his children have mental health problems, but he's never been willing to deal with it effectively and it's affecting my mom a lot. She's an adult and she made her choice, but I'm not willing to go along with it as if everything's fine.

It's hard for me to say your situation is like ours. His kids are well adjusted for the most part--get good grades, on track for college, have friends, have sports, get along with their dad. So there is no "mental health" breakdown except that they have a non-existent, very unwell parent who has convinced them that her failings are all because of their dad (and me/my kids) and like all kids, they're protective of their mom to an irrational extent and behave accordingly.

Okay, and is this "irrational" behavior going to go poof 5 years from now when you move in together? You've said that right now you can't get two family outings a year to go well. So why would you set up a situation where if your children want to come home for a holiday, they have to be around his children? Or is it your hope that his children will not show up? What does parenting adult children look like for him and you and your kids, in this relationship?

Yes. Childish tantrums may as well go poof in 5 years as his kids mature and get a different perspective on life.

Or maybe they still won't like OP. Lots of people don't like their stepfamily and it's not a tantrum. People are allowed to not like other people.

That's true, and sometimes blood family siblings don't like each other either. But I've never seen anyone advocate that one's parent disowns a disliked sibling because "no one has to like each other." People are allowed not to like each other, and other people are allowed to ignore it or not give it outsize importance.

Ok, so does OP want to voluntarily sign up for a lifetime of that, and to impose it on her kids (or have her kids avoid it)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP they are freezing you out on purpose because they know that if they're nice to you, you'll escalate your demands. You have an image of a blended family in your mind and if they show you any minor courtesy it makes you think you can implement it. So they have to be super cold to you to stop you from pressuring them. It's like when someone wants to date you and you don't want to date them-- they can't give you any encouragement and mixed messages make it worse. My mom is like this too, so I've had a freeze on her boyfriend and his family for 20 years. It isn't gonna change.

You need to ask yourself how this looks 5, 10, 15 years from now. Because they aren't going to come around. Your kids can spend holidays with your ex, I hope, if you choose this situation over time with your kids. His kids have nowhere else to go. So are you hoping they never come home? I just don't see how these ingredients produce an acceptable family life for anyone.

15 years from now his kids will be adults. Are you seriously advocating adult kids having veto power over their divorced parent's choice of new partner? I get that you may not like that your father has a new partner, but if you're an adult, your choices are to accept it or to stay away. If you must get together for holidays, it looks sort of childish to affect complete coldness out of fear that you may be pressured to do more if you show the slightest bit of courtesy.

I'm not advocating veto power, I'm suggesting to OP that she needs to consider her options. This may never change. Her boyfriend is not willing to do anything about it. Seems like a roll of the dice whether they will come around, at best. She has a boyfriend problem here.

Unfortunately my coldness to my mother's partner and his kids is necessary because it's the only way to get my mother to respect my boundaries. I wish we could all be cordially impersonal, but time has taught me that she will never settle for less than the close "blended" family of her imagination and will never acknowledge the very real obstacles to that happening. So, coldness it is. I genuinely wish it were different, but when people can't accept that others have boundaries, relationships don't go well.

Your answers are informed by your own scenario that may well have nothing to do with what OP is dealing with.

No, my answers are informed by what OP has said. The kids don't like her, the boyfriend won't do anything about it. There's no reason to think this will change. Stay or go?

Actually there is no reason to think that every feeling experienced at 18 will persevere into 23.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP they are freezing you out on purpose because they know that if they're nice to you, you'll escalate your demands. You have an image of a blended family in your mind and if they show you any minor courtesy it makes you think you can implement it. So they have to be super cold to you to stop you from pressuring them. It's like when someone wants to date you and you don't want to date them-- they can't give you any encouragement and mixed messages make it worse. My mom is like this too, so I've had a freeze on her boyfriend and his family for 20 years. It isn't gonna change.

You need to ask yourself how this looks 5, 10, 15 years from now. Because they aren't going to come around. Your kids can spend holidays with your ex, I hope, if you choose this situation over time with your kids. His kids have nowhere else to go. So are you hoping they never come home? I just don't see how these ingredients produce an acceptable family life for anyone.

15 years from now his kids will be adults. Are you seriously advocating adult kids having veto power over their divorced parent's choice of new partner? I get that you may not like that your father has a new partner, but if you're an adult, your choices are to accept it or to stay away. If you must get together for holidays, it looks sort of childish to affect complete coldness out of fear that you may be pressured to do more if you show the slightest bit of courtesy.

I'm not advocating veto power, I'm suggesting to OP that she needs to consider her options. This may never change. Her boyfriend is not willing to do anything about it. Seems like a roll of the dice whether they will come around, at best. She has a boyfriend problem here.

Unfortunately my coldness to my mother's partner and his kids is necessary because it's the only way to get my mother to respect my boundaries. I wish we could all be cordially impersonal, but time has taught me that she will never settle for less than the close "blended" family of her imagination and will never acknowledge the very real obstacles to that happening. So, coldness it is. I genuinely wish it were different, but when people can't accept that others have boundaries, relationships don't go well.

Your answers are informed by your own scenario that may well have nothing to do with what OP is dealing with.

No, my answers are informed by what OP has said. The kids don't like her, the boyfriend won't do anything about it. There's no reason to think this will change. Stay or go?

Actually there is no reason to think that every feeling experienced at 18 will persevere into 23.

Indeed, but it's been 10 years already and the boyfriend isn't willing to intervene. There's no reason to think it won't persist-- it might actually get worse once they become adults with their own income and can't be as easily pressured.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

I would suggest either he gets them mental health care, he allows you to get them mental health care (if you're willing to let him abdicate as a parent and do the work for him), or you give up on ever having both sets of kids together, or you break up with him and date someone else. Or I guess you can see how things go, maybe they'll get mental health care on their own, anything's possible.

As the kid in this situation, I just hate to see my mom's retirement being so consumed with the mental health problems of her partner's adult children. And I'm not willing to bring my own children to my mom's for the holidays because of the mental health behaviors. It's sad. I much prefer my mom to have a partner in life, but I think she would be much better off if she had chosen someone else to date, who didn't bring all these problems to the relationship. It's not his fault that his children have mental health problems, but he's never been willing to deal with it effectively and it's affecting my mom a lot. She's an adult and she made her choice, but I'm not willing to go along with it as if everything's fine.

It's hard for me to say your situation is like ours. His kids are well adjusted for the most part--get good grades, on track for college, have friends, have sports, get along with their dad. So there is no "mental health" breakdown except that they have a non-existent, very unwell parent who has convinced them that her failings are all because of their dad (and me/my kids) and like all kids, they're protective of their mom to an irrational extent and behave accordingly.

Okay, and is this "irrational" behavior going to go poof 5 years from now when you move in together? You've said that right now you can't get two family outings a year to go well. So why would you set up a situation where if your children want to come home for a holiday, they have to be around his children? Or is it your hope that his children will not show up? What does parenting adult children look like for him and you and your kids, in this relationship?

Yes. Childish tantrums may as well go poof in 5 years as his kids mature and get a different perspective on life.

Or maybe they still won't like OP. Lots of people don't like their stepfamily and it's not a tantrum. People are allowed to not like other people.

That's true, and sometimes blood family siblings don't like each other either. But I've never seen anyone advocate that one's parent disowns a disliked sibling because "no one has to like each other." People are allowed not to like each other, and other people are allowed to ignore it or not give it outsize importance.

Ok, so does OP want to voluntarily sign up for a lifetime of that, and to impose it on her kids (or have her kids avoid it)?

Only she can answer that. I would personally advocate that an adult person does not allow teenage people drive their life decisions but that's me. Kids are launching soon enough, they have their own lives to worry about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

I would suggest either he gets them mental health care, he allows you to get them mental health care (if you're willing to let him abdicate as a parent and do the work for him), or you give up on ever having both sets of kids together, or you break up with him and date someone else. Or I guess you can see how things go, maybe they'll get mental health care on their own, anything's possible.

As the kid in this situation, I just hate to see my mom's retirement being so consumed with the mental health problems of her partner's adult children. And I'm not willing to bring my own children to my mom's for the holidays because of the mental health behaviors. It's sad. I much prefer my mom to have a partner in life, but I think she would be much better off if she had chosen someone else to date, who didn't bring all these problems to the relationship. It's not his fault that his children have mental health problems, but he's never been willing to deal with it effectively and it's affecting my mom a lot. She's an adult and she made her choice, but I'm not willing to go along with it as if everything's fine.

It's hard for me to say your situation is like ours. His kids are well adjusted for the most part--get good grades, on track for college, have friends, have sports, get along with their dad. So there is no "mental health" breakdown except that they have a non-existent, very unwell parent who has convinced them that her failings are all because of their dad (and me/my kids) and like all kids, they're protective of their mom to an irrational extent and behave accordingly.

Okay, and is this "irrational" behavior going to go poof 5 years from now when you move in together? You've said that right now you can't get two family outings a year to go well. So why would you set up a situation where if your children want to come home for a holiday, they have to be around his children? Or is it your hope that his children will not show up? What does parenting adult children look like for him and you and your kids, in this relationship?

Yes. Childish tantrums may as well go poof in 5 years as his kids mature and get a different perspective on life.

Or maybe they still won't like OP. Lots of people don't like their stepfamily and it's not a tantrum. People are allowed to not like other people.

That's true, and sometimes blood family siblings don't like each other either. But I've never seen anyone advocate that one's parent disowns a disliked sibling because "no one has to like each other." People are allowed not to like each other, and other people are allowed to ignore it or not give it outsize importance.

Ok, so does OP want to voluntarily sign up for a lifetime of that, and to impose it on her kids (or have her kids avoid it)?

Only she can answer that. I would personally advocate that an adult person does not allow teenage people drive their life decisions but that's me. Kids are launching soon enough, they have their own lives to worry about.

See, I don't really think it's allowing teenagers to drive decisions. I think it would be breaking up with a man who isn't parenting appropriately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

You should have dumped him ten plus years ago when you realized he wasn’t getting care for his children.

This. So they're rude to you, and he allows it, and this is the fault of his ex? Come on.

Op here. They aren't rude to me. They're rude to my kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you're saying there's kids who have a difficult parent, they have been through a difficult divorce and now have a difficult custody situation/alienation, and are potentially at risk for hereditary mental health issues, and their more-functional parent refuses to acknowledge and treat their mental health despite obvious red flags.

And all that said, the problem in your eyes is they don't want to be friends with your kids and aren't fun enough for your liking on twice-annual outings? Listen to yourself! Come on!

Before jumping in with all these declaratory statements, let me calm you down a bit. Boyfriend is doing the best he can. Has he put them in therapy? No. But he does an amazing job with them and always has their interests at heart. Am I sad that 10 years in and his kids don't acknowledge mine? Absolutely. I don't think that should be shocking for me to feel. I am human. Am I sad that his ex-wife won't let them be when it comes to me? For sure. Am I sad his wife wants no custody despite his urging? You betcha. It's a very difficult situation but that doesn't make me a bad guy for being sad about it all and posting on here so please calm down.

How is refusing to get them mental health care an "amazing job"?

Really, ask yourself do you want it to be this way long-term? Because I don't see why anything would change.

OK. You win.

Look, it's not an easy road to be the parent of adults with mental health problems. Your boyfriend is setting himself up for some even more difficult challenges if he doesn't intervene and get these kids into a better condition of health. As soon as they turn 18, parents have so much less information and so much less leverage and when something really bad does happen, it can be really hard to help them. They might start self-medicating with controlled substances for example, fail out of college, lose jobs, who knows. And when their situation gets bad enough, they may turn to their parents for help, and that will put him, and you, in a really stressful and difficult situation.

Really truly consider whether you want this for your kids. I get that you want to move in with this guy and all get along and do family holidays together etc., it's a beautiful dream, but how does that happen if his children continue to have mental health problems? I am an adult child in this situation, and let me tell you, it's not so merry when you're expected to show up and fake a normal holiday but the parents are preoccupied with attempting to manage the long-term entrenched mental health conditions of my stepsiblings.

So what are you suggesting? That we stop being together unless and until his kids are treated because all future gatherings will be stressful?

You should have dumped him ten plus years ago when you realized he wasn’t getting care for his children.

This. So they're rude to you, and he allows it, and this is the fault of his ex? Come on.

Op here. They aren't rude to me. They're rude to my kids.

Honestly that is interesting and I wonder why.

But the bottom line is he allows it. And he won't get them mental health support. You have a boyfriend problem.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP they are freezing you out on purpose because they know that if they're nice to you, you'll escalate your demands. You have an image of a blended family in your mind and if they show you any minor courtesy it makes you think you can implement it. So they have to be super cold to you to stop you from pressuring them. It's like when someone wants to date you and you don't want to date them-- they can't give you any encouragement and mixed messages make it worse. My mom is like this too, so I've had a freeze on her boyfriend and his family for 20 years. It isn't gonna change.

You need to ask yourself how this looks 5, 10, 15 years from now. Because they aren't going to come around. Your kids can spend holidays with your ex, I hope, if you choose this situation over time with your kids. His kids have nowhere else to go. So are you hoping they never come home? I just don't see how these ingredients produce an acceptable family life for anyone.

15 years from now his kids will be adults. Are you seriously advocating adult kids having veto power over their divorced parent's choice of new partner? I get that you may not like that your father has a new partner, but if you're an adult, your choices are to accept it or to stay away. If you must get together for holidays, it looks sort of childish to affect complete coldness out of fear that you may be pressured to do more if you show the slightest bit of courtesy.

I'm not advocating veto power, I'm suggesting to OP that she needs to consider her options. This may never change. Her boyfriend is not willing to do anything about it. Seems like a roll of the dice whether they will come around, at best. She has a boyfriend problem here.

Unfortunately my coldness to my mother's partner and his kids is necessary because it's the only way to get my mother to respect my boundaries. I wish we could all be cordially impersonal, but time has taught me that she will never settle for less than the close "blended" family of her imagination and will never acknowledge the very real obstacles to that happening. So, coldness it is. I genuinely wish it were different, but when people can't accept that others have boundaries, relationships don't go well.

Your answers are informed by your own scenario that may well have nothing to do with what OP is dealing with.

No, my answers are informed by what OP has said. The kids don't like her, the boyfriend won't do anything about it. There's no reason to think this will change. Stay or go?

OP here. I never said the kids don't like me. Ever. They behave towards me like they would any adult that's only tangentially in their life. I have kept my distance from doing any "parenting".