Can someone explain the mentality of never being proactive or organized to me?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

You triggered and cray cray

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

NP. I just want to thank the person who wrote the above. It speaks to my life so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

Troll again

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I just don't get the mentality. Is it an assumption that I'll just do it? Or weaponized incompetence or like - what is benefit to dh of being like this? I do not understand."

You know he has it and takes meds. Yet you choose not to understand. By understand I don't mean tolerate. It is frustrating and spouses frequently insist that their ADHD family members work harder at EF and establish better safety rails for themselves so they make fewer administrative mistakes. You are right to do that.

But to assume he bears ill will or is being "intentional" in his mistakes goes beyond not understanding how he is impacted by his disability. You are looking for a character flaw that you can weaponize so you don't feel bad dumping him for having a disability.

It isn't 'intentional' -- ironically, following through on intentions is literally the hard part. There is no benefit to him. The toll these administrative mistake stake on a person with ADHD is harsh and real. To cope, some people have to learn to recognize that the consequences aren't dire and learn to roll with it. If it is dire to you, that too can be very frustrating, because it seems he doesn't care, but the alternative for him is depression and crippling anxiety.

The PPs are right that he needs to focus on creating better EF supports for himself at home so he can pull his weight. He can pull his weight, and needs to do the work to get there. You can point out to him that he has failed to work on EF supports at home.

or she can just divorce him.

if you are so disabled you cannot handle adult life, do not get married.

Indeed. There is a very high divorce rate amongst ASD and untreated ADHD individuals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Weaponized incompetence. He knows you're going to do it.

She didn’t do anything, except come onto an anonymous message board to complain that he completed a task (albeit imperfectly) and pat herself on the back for completing the same task perfectly herself (you know, in her own mind only).

Most of us can read an infer that this is just one example- and those of us with similar DHs know the score. In my case it wouldn’t just be pulling this kind of stunt with the birthday party (my exDH probably would have blown it off altogether). It would also be:
- never cooking or grocery shopping
- never doing any school paperwork
- never paying any bills or doing anything financial; actively refuse to do financial planning
- no coordination of home repairs or yard work
- no cleaning except for very discrete tasks when asked by me
- no attention to regular healthcare needs for kids
- no attention to teaching kids basic skills (shoe tying etc)
- no communication/coordination with caregivers and schools
- no childcare except when specifically booked by me (as if they were a babysitter) or if there was a “fun” activity they wanted to do
- not earning more than 50% of the household income (in case you wondered if being a high earner excused this)

Holy sh!t. That’s just terrible and I am sure not exaggerated in the least. I can only assume that he dropped dead almost immediately after you divorced him.

Of course not. Because he actually can do those things but chose not to because he knew I would. And post divorce I still do the same amount of work for my kid (b/c of course he didn’t want 50-50 custody) but I now don’t have to deal with his added mess and the aggravation of seeing him on a daily basis. I think his house is probably really disgusting though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not a mentality, OP. It’s a disability. Educate yourself because sh***ing on people with ADHD does nothing since they already hate themselves. But by all means, revel in your superiority while your marriage falls apart. Hope “victory” feels good.

Disagree. Yes they might have it harder but that just means they need to work harder to gain executive skills. Or medicate.

Ah yes, the old “just work harder!” People with ADHD already are working five times as hard as neurotypicals just to not be homeless. Not saying OP’s DH can’t do better but OP sounds like one of those people who truly believe ADHD doesn’t exist and anyone who doesn’t function like her is lazy and inferior. She sounds like a nightmare.

Honestly, why is ADHD considered the disorder? Whatever perfectionism OP (and her many apologists in this thread) suffers from is clearly toxic and will undoubtedly negatively impact her relationships. Why are people like OP not considered “disordered”?

(And if the dismissive term for men with ADHD is “lazy” then I submit that the equivalent dismissive term for women with perfectionism is “b! +ch”)

By your illogic then you are a Psycho then, for pretending basic adult stuff with kids is “perfectionism”.

Lol. This must be another troll post or else true psycho.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

yeah your immediate reaction that someone trying to get you to participate equally is trying to exert control over you is also 100% in character.

how about actually considering all of the tasks that need to be done and engaging fruitfully, instead of defaulting to “you’re a nagging b” every time your wife asks you not to leave crumbs on the counter?

also just to take one example, I’d really like you to spell out the rationale for leaving crumbs on the counter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Explain the mentality of never being organized or proactive?

Usually it occurs when there is Backstop person who will do it if the Failure person never does.

At work the failure person gets fired.

At school the failure person is told to get tutoring and exec functioning help.

At home, the failure person causes chaos and is either left/divorced or put on the sidelines indefinitely. Either way the relationship and “family” is over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

yeah your immediate reaction that someone trying to get you to participate equally is trying to exert control over you is also 100% in character.

how about actually considering all of the tasks that need to be done and engaging fruitfully, instead of defaulting to “you’re a nagging b” every time your wife asks you not to leave crumbs on the counter?

also just to take one example, I’d really like you to spell out the rationale for leaving crumbs on the counter.

I’ll take care of the crumbs later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

yeah your immediate reaction that someone trying to get you to participate equally is trying to exert control over you is also 100% in character.

how about actually considering all of the tasks that need to be done and engaging fruitfully, instead of defaulting to “you’re a nagging b” every time your wife asks you not to leave crumbs on the counter?

also just to take one example, I’d really like you to spell out the rationale for leaving crumbs on the counter.

I’ll take care of the crumbs later.

Later, when? And why should everyone else in the house deal with the dirty counters in the meantime? What about bugs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

yeah your immediate reaction that someone trying to get you to participate equally is trying to exert control over you is also 100% in character.

how about actually considering all of the tasks that need to be done and engaging fruitfully, instead of defaulting to “you’re a nagging b” every time your wife asks you not to leave crumbs on the counter?

also just to take one example, I’d really like you to spell out the rationale for leaving crumbs on the counter.

I’ll take care of the crumbs later.

Later, when? And why should everyone else in the house deal with the dirty counters in the meantime? What about bugs?

Later is fine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

yeah your immediate reaction that someone trying to get you to participate equally is trying to exert control over you is also 100% in character.

how about actually considering all of the tasks that need to be done and engaging fruitfully, instead of defaulting to “you’re a nagging b” every time your wife asks you not to leave crumbs on the counter?

also just to take one example, I’d really like you to spell out the rationale for leaving crumbs on the counter.

I’ll take care of the crumbs later.

Later, when? And why should everyone else in the house deal with the dirty counters in the meantime? What about bugs?

Later is fine.

wow thanks for how this plays out in realtime!

“Your request is unimportant and I will not even discuss it with you.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

yeah your immediate reaction that someone trying to get you to participate equally is trying to exert control over you is also 100% in character.

how about actually considering all of the tasks that need to be done and engaging fruitfully, instead of defaulting to “you’re a nagging b” every time your wife asks you not to leave crumbs on the counter?

also just to take one example, I’d really like you to spell out the rationale for leaving crumbs on the counter.

Last night I did just enough clean up in the kitchen to start the dishwasher and not leave food sitting out. Then I went to bed and left the rest of the dishes in the sink. I also didn’t clean the counter or the stovetop. Why? Because I was tired and I just… didn’t feel like it.

I did the rest of the clean up when I got up this morning. I didn’t leave the kitchen clean up unfinished as part of some nefarious plot to get my husband to do it for me. I just didn’t feel like doing it last night. If I had come downstairs and he had started admonishing me for not finishing up last night I would have been p!ssed. But he would never speak to me (or about me) that way, because we love and respect each other, and most importantly, we are both adults and neither one of us gets to be “in charge” in this relationship.

But good luck with your unhappy marriages, ladies. I’m sure every problem is always your husband’s fault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP I think you’re thinking about it wrong. Like PP upthread said the benefit, if there is one, is that he just doesn’t have to do much that doesn’t directly help himself. Cash in an envelope at a kids party (blech, btw, everyone who thinks this is great is wtf. It’s not the end of the world but come on people, way to lower the bar) is a great example. He was able to sleep in, didn’t have to wrap anything, etc.

But the real answer is not what the benefit is for him, but what the consequences are. Which is to say, none. Unfortunately, everything is taken care of by you so there’s no fallout for him. You have my sympathy because as a single mom who does it all, I couldn’t imagine another adult in my house sitting around benefiting from my labor. My 12-year-old DD functions like a mini adult to help with chores, her own responsibilities, etc. I’m raising her this way intentionally. When I read threads about husbands that are like this (I assume they think all they need to do is earn money? Which I do as well, so yeah, it’s not enough if you want a family), I feel deep empathy because that sounds really hard.

Everyone says “just let him feel the consequences“ but the truth is that in a family, the people who will really feel it will be the kids. So I’m not sure what the answer is except marriage counseling, and being prepared to walk away if you have to. But that’s also not an easy answer.

He didn't lower the gift bar. You and OP have a different bar for gifts than he does, which is okay, but neither of you believe it is. That's fine as your preference, but it's your responsibility to own it and not martyr yourselves.

If she wanted an expensive wrapped gift that reflected the kid's interests and was the right color, size, and brand (see how many burdens we can add to ourselves?), she could have gotten it herself. Instead she's choosing to blame him.

Relatedly, she doesn't have a choice to make him buy the "right" kind of gift or get there on time. She can only control her and what she controls is her actions and her reactions. She could change her viewpoint to any number of other ways of looking at this, but she doesn't want to. This is not blaming her, it's just explaining how the world actually works.

Yes, I'm familiar with your argument. This is the black and white, binary, "there are only two choices" argument. As if the only options are an "expensive wrapped gift in the right color/size/brand" or an envelope of cash. This is the mantra of the "let them eat pizza, what's wrong with screens, why should I sign them up for sports because I hate taking them to practice and they can just throw the ball outside" folks. What people who make this argument are trying desperately to avoid is the reality that quality parenting, not "my" or "OP's" preference, but decent quality parenting, lives in the middle ground. Just like a quality approach to life. You don't phone it in at work, and you don't have to kiss the boss's @ss. You don't make 6 extra mortgage payments a year, and you don't pay the mortgage late. You do a decent job, most of the time, and life works out pretty well. Perfect is indeed the enemy of good.

If the envelope of cash (we'll stick with that example) was a one-off, it wouldn't matter. But it's not. It might as well have been late arrival at soccer practice, not helping pick up at home, or any other number of half-@ss behaviors that ultimately fall on someone else. But they shouldn't care about shoes in the hallway!, you'll say. According to who? You? Why does that opinion matter more than the person who prefers order? For the same reason OP's husband can't grab a craft kit at Barston's Child's Play on CT ave NW (or in Arlington for those in VA) where they literally gift wrap at the counter while they're checking you out. First, laziness. Second, selfishness. And hey, be that person if you want to. But own it, recognize that it doesn't make you a good co-worker, partner, or friend, and deal with the consequences. This attitude; the "who cares if there are crumbs on the counter" approach, is always, repeat always, taken by the person who not only wants to do less, but wants to disingenuously benefit from the more done by someone else. OP should lower her standards, you say? Maybe. But no where is it suggested that the DH should raise his. And ultimately the goal here is not to grind your way through life, but to be happy, right? Again, a decent job, most of the time. They *both* get to decide what decent means. And that's not happening if it all falls on her.

You have a mental disorder. I feel sorry for your spouse and your kids. And actually, your kids’ friends, because you are the type of parent who micromanages and sucks the fun out of everything.

(Also, for the record, craft kits are stupid, wasteful, unimaginative instagram crap that mommies like you buy in order to feel superior because it’s such a good “educational” gift…)

She has a mental disorder because she believes men should make an effort of some sort? OK.

But for those in the audience: this PP’s aggressive, hostile and deflecting response to an actually totally reasonable discussion of what it takes to run a household fairly is totally characteristic of these guys. Instead of calmly discussing how to split the work they retaliate and deflect.

The root cause of your unhappiness is your mistaken belief that you are “the boss” (i.e. your standards are the correct standards), coupled with your contradictory belief that as one of two adults in a relationship you shouldn’t have to be “the boss”.

This thread is a perfect illustration of this. OP is complaining not that her husband didn’t take the kid to the party or provide a gift (because by her own admission he did in fact accomplish both of those tasks); she is complaining because he didn’t do it to her standard. Which of course, in her mind, is the “correct” standard. She claims that she wants to be able to relinquish control, and yet she is completely incapable of relinquishing control. That’s not her husband’s issue, it’s her issue.

yeah your immediate reaction that someone trying to get you to participate equally is trying to exert control over you is also 100% in character.

how about actually considering all of the tasks that need to be done and engaging fruitfully, instead of defaulting to “you’re a nagging b” every time your wife asks you not to leave crumbs on the counter?

also just to take one example, I’d really like you to spell out the rationale for leaving crumbs on the counter.

I’ll take care of the crumbs later.

Later, when? And why should everyone else in the house deal with the dirty counters in the meantime? What about bugs?

Later is fine.

Later is fine with you. You don't get to be the sole decision maker of how long a mess stays unaddressed. And no, neither does your partner. You compromise. This is a relationship. If you can't engage in this type of compromise you need to live alone, with your crumbs, for as long as you like.

[Anonymous]

The thing that can be frustrating as the non-ADHD spouse is the lack of accountability. When ADHD is the explanation for a lot if these behaviors there can be a tendency to make it a get out if jail free card for all kinds of harmful and hurtful behaviors. And being in a marriage where you are accountable for your behavior but your partner is not doesn't work.

I think often people with ADHD are fighting stigma or self-defeating thinking around it so they will adopt the idea that they should not have to apologize or feel bad for any behavior related to their ADHD. But that's not it. I don't expect my spouse to apologize for his ADHD, but I do expect him to be accountable for harmful behaviors even if the explanation is ADHD. Like he can't just dump all the childcare or admin on me and then shrug "ADHD" and expect me to be fine. He can't blame time blindness for him abandoning me for hours with no warning or not showing up to an important event for our kids.

This is the problem with "it's ADHD, you have to have empathy." I get it and I do have empathy. But this diagnosis cannot just mean that everyone around the person with ADHD suffers in silence. You are still accountable for how your actions impact others even if I understand you have a harder time acting in ways without these negative externalities.