This isn't normal is it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut on this one. I'd bring her to a psychiatrist for therapy, and also consider the neuropathy test. Girls aren't always identified with ADHD/anxiety/ASD, and this could be it. An IEP will be helpful, even though she is doing really well.

We had to take this on ourselves, since my kid wasn't doing poorly in school. But now, a few years in, we know we did the right thing.

I'm so sorry. This is really hard.

A child doesn't just get an IEP, whether they have a formal diagnosis of anxiety or ADHD or ASD. It doesn't work like that (nor should it).

OP - what would an IEP look like for a kid who tests well and does well in school?

I am also so worried that we ruined DD during covid lockdowns. She does not do well with change/unfamiliar schedules and during covid we had just had a new baby, ripped her out of her daycare and then started her in virtual kindergarten. I had very severe PPD during this time that was untreated (due to covid policies) and probably was the worst parent ever during this time. Lots of yelling, screaming, disregulated household, etc. I got treated for my PPD, my youngest started sleeping through the night and it got better but I am so worried that during this time we truly ruined DD and this is all stemming from that period of time.

While most of us parents have wondered whether we "ruined" our children at times, the household environment you described is highly unlikely to be the cause of whatever is going on now. The pandemic was already close to 3 years ago. Maybe the stress caused some of the underlying issues that were already there to surface, but based on what you described, it's unlikely that the household environment for a finite period of time "caused" this.

Just get the neuro psych exam. Better to have answers than trying to figure it out on your own. My DD was diagnosed with ADHD at age 7. She shares a lot of the same traits you describe with your DD: inflexibility, emotional outbursts, losing track of time/difficulty staying on task (especially when we are trying to leave the house), wanting things to be just so--esp with her hair. She was also have difficulty regulating her emotions at school but she's a good student overall. I thought she had anxiety but when we finally had her tested, she was diagnosed with ADHD which took me by surprise. I didn't realize how much emotional dysregulation is a core feature of ADHD.

All of this to say, just have her tested. If this was any other medical issue, of course you'd WANT the test to understand what is going on and how to treat it. It's the same here.

… emotional dysregulation can be a symptom of a lot of things, including, yes, instability at home and a dysfunctional parenting style. (also OP says no academic issues so ADHD is unlikely.) a neuropsych will take months/years to access. OP doesn’t have time for that and needs to find parenting support.

Of course you can have ADHD without any resulting academic issues. That can be one of the symptoms, but isn't always. There are lot of kids--especially girls--who are good students but have ADHD nonetheless. Second, you can get a test done within a few months. I know because I did it last year. OP should certainly try to find parenting support in the meantime, but why not pursue all possible avenues to get answers?

You cannot have ADHD with no ADHD symptoms!! The DSM even states that symptoms cannot come solely from oppositionality or deficiance.

They way people want to see hidden diagnoses is really misguided. These are diagnoses based on symptoms - it’s not at all like high blood pressure where you may not have symptoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a little surprised at the responses here. It seems everyone, including you OP, is trying to find some diagnosis. She is fine usually but has random outbursts, so what? you are freaking out because she gets up at 6:45 and can't get out of the shower by 7:10?? i'm sorry but that is an aggressive schedule. No way wants to wake up and be go go go from the minute they open their eyes. Some people might be ok with this but many are not and clearly your daughter has the kind of temperament where she needs to transition and take her time to wake up. Stop labeling her based on that frustration. Wake her up earlier, go to bed earlier, and/or shower at night. Your schedule is the problem.

+1000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

I think you are looking for problems where there aren’t any.
It sounds like you have a very high functioning kid whose outbursts don’t really affect her life significantly in any way (doesn’t have them at school or around friends), and you already have her in therapy.

13:25 here. I think people can be outwardly hugh functioning and inwardly an anxious mess. The motivation that gets her to be high functioning in those ways may be fear of failure, just like the fear of failure w.r.t. to hee hair.

It's just coming out differently because even hard schoolwork at age 9 can usually be made easy by following a formula if sitting down and practicing enough (even if more than mom and sister had to). But her hair is not cooperating with her best efforts like the schoolwork does.

This just sounds like one version of a normal kid to me. What you are describing here doesn’t sound like mental illness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

I think you are looking for problems where there aren’t any.
It sounds like you have a very high functioning kid whose outbursts don’t really affect her life significantly in any way (doesn’t have them at school or around friends), and you already have her in therapy.

13:25 here. I think people can be outwardly hugh functioning and inwardly an anxious mess. The motivation that gets her to be high functioning in those ways may be fear of failure, just like the fear of failure w.r.t. to hee hair.

It's just coming out differently because even hard schoolwork at age 9 can usually be made easy by following a formula if sitting down and practicing enough (even if more than mom and sister had to). But her hair is not cooperating with her best efforts like the schoolwork does.

This just sounds like one version of a normal kid to me. What you are describing here doesn’t sound like mental illness.

I'm not saying it's mental illness or diagnosable anxiety. I'm just saying how the outcomes look from the outside (successful in school and frustrated by hair and whatever else) don't necessarily tell you what's going on in her head.

She's having a problem of some kind of she wouldn't melt down, which circles back to another helpful framework Rachel Bailey gives: "She's having a problem, not being a problem." That can really help mom reframe things.

[Anonymous]

I am curious what led to a six year old (if she has been in therapy for three years) being diagnosed with anxiety. Not saying she doesn't have it but at that age, it's pretty difficult to tease out...

[Anonymous]

I kind of agree with the PP that was saying the schedule is the problem.

Your DD may have something going on, but why not try to adjust the schedule first.

What time does her school start? Elementary schools tend to start later. I would try to adjust your schedule so she can sleep later every morning. If she needs 10 hours of sleep a night and she’s only getting 9 hours of sleep, she’s going to have lots of problems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut on this one. I'd bring her to a psychiatrist for therapy, and also consider the neuropathy test. Girls aren't always identified with ADHD/anxiety/ASD, and this could be it. An IEP will be helpful, even though she is doing really well.

We had to take this on ourselves, since my kid wasn't doing poorly in school. But now, a few years in, we know we did the right thing.

I'm so sorry. This is really hard.

A child doesn't just get an IEP, whether they have a formal diagnosis of anxiety or ADHD or ASD. It doesn't work like that (nor should it).

OP - what would an IEP look like for a kid who tests well and does well in school?

I am also so worried that we ruined DD during covid lockdowns. She does not do well with change/unfamiliar schedules and during covid we had just had a new baby, ripped her out of her daycare and then started her in virtual kindergarten. I had very severe PPD during this time that was untreated (due to covid policies) and probably was the worst parent ever during this time. Lots of yelling, screaming, disregulated household, etc. I got treated for my PPD, my youngest started sleeping through the night and it got better but I am so worried that during this time we truly ruined DD and this is all stemming from that period of time.

While most of us parents have wondered whether we "ruined" our children at times, the household environment you described is highly unlikely to be the cause of whatever is going on now. The pandemic was already close to 3 years ago. Maybe the stress caused some of the underlying issues that were already there to surface, but based on what you described, it's unlikely that the household environment for a finite period of time "caused" this.

Just get the neuro psych exam. Better to have answers than trying to figure it out on your own. My DD was diagnosed with ADHD at age 7. She shares a lot of the same traits you describe with your DD: inflexibility, emotional outbursts, losing track of time/difficulty staying on task (especially when we are trying to leave the house), wanting things to be just so--esp with her hair. She was also have difficulty regulating her emotions at school but she's a good student overall. I thought she had anxiety but when we finally had her tested, she was diagnosed with ADHD which took me by surprise. I didn't realize how much emotional dysregulation is a core feature of ADHD.

All of this to say, just have her tested. If this was any other medical issue, of course you'd WANT the test to understand what is going on and how to treat it. It's the same here.

… emotional dysregulation can be a symptom of a lot of things, including, yes, instability at home and a dysfunctional parenting style. (also OP says no academic issues so ADHD is unlikely.) a neuropsych will take months/years to access. OP doesn’t have time for that and needs to find parenting support.

Of course you can have ADHD without any resulting academic issues. That can be one of the symptoms, but isn't always. There are lot of kids--especially girls--who are good students but have ADHD nonetheless. Second, you can get a test done within a few months. I know because I did it last year. OP should certainly try to find parenting support in the meantime, but why not pursue all possible avenues to get answers?

You cannot have ADHD with no ADHD symptoms!! The DSM even states that symptoms cannot come solely from oppositionality or deficiance.

They way people want to see hidden diagnoses is really misguided. These are diagnoses based on symptoms - it’s not at all like high blood pressure where you may not have symptoms.

Why are you saying there are no symptoms?? Perhaps go back and read the OP and the subsequent posts where she talks about emotional outbursts, losing track of time/taking really long to do things, inflexibility. Those could point to something else, but those are also ADHD symptoms. Doesn't mean she has it unless the other criteria are present. Academic problems can be one symptom but not every ADHD kid has poor grades. But there's one way to find out whether it's something or nothing--and that would be to get her tested by a professional. Pulling up the DSM online isn't going to cut it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

+1 million. Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

you cannot be diagnosed with a disorder if you meet literally zero of the criteria for said disorder. thank you for coming ti my ted talk.

[Anonymous]

I have a child with similar issues and here is what worked. Not sure that it will work for you. First, do anything you can the night before. Can she shower or bathe at night? Not sure that she has to wash her hair every day. Second, choose clothes and shoes and put them out. My kid only needs 30 minutes tops in the morning because only needs to eat breakfast, put on clothes and shoes, and brush teeth. Let her sleep in an extra 30 minutes and go to bed earlier as well. Most important: Be calm and don’t say she has to hurry, etc. Calmly say that everyone has to leave in 30 minutes, etc. If she is taking too long, then she has to go to bed earlier and get up earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut on this one. I'd bring her to a psychiatrist for therapy, and also consider the neuropathy test. Girls aren't always identified with ADHD/anxiety/ASD, and this could be it. An IEP will be helpful, even though she is doing really well.

We had to take this on ourselves, since my kid wasn't doing poorly in school. But now, a few years in, we know we did the right thing.

I'm so sorry. This is really hard.

A child doesn't just get an IEP, whether they have a formal diagnosis of anxiety or ADHD or ASD. It doesn't work like that (nor should it).

OP - what would an IEP look like for a kid who tests well and does well in school?

I am also so worried that we ruined DD during covid lockdowns. She does not do well with change/unfamiliar schedules and during covid we had just had a new baby, ripped her out of her daycare and then started her in virtual kindergarten. I had very severe PPD during this time that was untreated (due to covid policies) and probably was the worst parent ever during this time. Lots of yelling, screaming, disregulated household, etc. I got treated for my PPD, my youngest started sleeping through the night and it got better but I am so worried that during this time we truly ruined DD and this is all stemming from that period of time.

While most of us parents have wondered whether we "ruined" our children at times, the household environment you described is highly unlikely to be the cause of whatever is going on now. The pandemic was already close to 3 years ago. Maybe the stress caused some of the underlying issues that were already there to surface, but based on what you described, it's unlikely that the household environment for a finite period of time "caused" this.

Just get the neuro psych exam. Better to have answers than trying to figure it out on your own. My DD was diagnosed with ADHD at age 7. She shares a lot of the same traits you describe with your DD: inflexibility, emotional outbursts, losing track of time/difficulty staying on task (especially when we are trying to leave the house), wanting things to be just so--esp with her hair. She was also have difficulty regulating her emotions at school but she's a good student overall. I thought she had anxiety but when we finally had her tested, she was diagnosed with ADHD which took me by surprise. I didn't realize how much emotional dysregulation is a core feature of ADHD.

All of this to say, just have her tested. If this was any other medical issue, of course you'd WANT the test to understand what is going on and how to treat it. It's the same here.

… emotional dysregulation can be a symptom of a lot of things, including, yes, instability at home and a dysfunctional parenting style. (also OP says no academic issues so ADHD is unlikely.) a neuropsych will take months/years to access. OP doesn’t have time for that and needs to find parenting support.

Of course you can have ADHD without any resulting academic issues. That can be one of the symptoms, but isn't always. There are lot of kids--especially girls--who are good students but have ADHD nonetheless. Second, you can get a test done within a few months. I know because I did it last year. OP should certainly try to find parenting support in the meantime, but why not pursue all possible avenues to get answers?

You cannot have ADHD with no ADHD symptoms!! The DSM even states that symptoms cannot come solely from oppositionality or deficiance.

They way people want to see hidden diagnoses is really misguided. These are diagnoses based on symptoms - it’s not at all like high blood pressure where you may not have symptoms.

Why are you saying there are no symptoms?? Perhaps go back and read the OP and the subsequent posts where she talks about emotional outbursts, losing track of time/taking really long to do things, inflexibility. Those could point to something else, but those are also ADHD symptoms. Doesn't mean she has it unless the other criteria are present. Academic problems can be one symptom but not every ADHD kid has poor grades. But there's one way to find out whether it's something or nothing--and that would be to get her tested by a professional. Pulling up the DSM online isn't going to cut it.

because OP wrote: “ DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized”

OTOH OP has said repeatedly that the child is anxious and moody and having outbursts. So starting with evidence based therapy for anxiety makes sense.

Also OP is pretty clear that the child had a very difficult family situation for 3 years. That absolutely can have an impact on behavior and any competent family therapist would look to improve parenting skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here - the reason our therapist hasn’t indicated it was ADHD is that DD has no trouble concentrating. She does great and school, comes home and immediately does her homework, has never once not studied for a test, is very organized. Not sure if that is just masking a problem or not.

Will look into the SPACE therapy.

Is she intelligent? School may just be easy - ADHD will show up more as school gets harder. When you can do your homework easily you don’t need to command much of your executive function. Then later, you hit high school and have no study skills.

This isn’t how ADHD works …

Yeah it is and it’s why many high achieving girls aren’t diagnosed

They aren’t diagnosed because their symptoms don’t cause problems for other people, so they are missed or ignored. Not because they have no symptoms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Trust your gut and get the neuropsych. Pediatricians and therapists are not trained to diagnose. You know what you see.

Yes they are trained to diagnose. But a neuropsych takes 6months/year and provides zero therapy. Save the time and money and go straight to therapy.

No. The pediatrician can’t diagnose what’s going on here.

OP says they’ve been doing therapy and it’s not helping. That means they need to do more, not less.

OP, while you work on getting a neuropsych, see if you can get a referral to a psychiatrist from your pediatrician. Your daughter may need anti anxiety meds, or other meds to help her.

My son was a lot like this (exhausting to parent but perfect at school), and he has ASD. Diagnosed at 11 because no one would listen to me before then.