Where do you draw the line between upper middle class and upper class?

[Anonymous]

Been top 1%. I’d still consider it UMC. I think UC is more like top .5% or less.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am from England where we have a real class system, based on birth, education, profession rather than just finances.

Here in the US the "class" system is a joke.

I am so glad we don't have a class system like yours. I do agree that all the strivers here are jokes.

[Anonymous]

Here's how I see it.

60% or so America is the working class.

80th percentile is you're kind of the meeting point of solidly middle class and the upper middle class.

90th percentile is the upper middle class.

95th percentile is meeting point between upper middle class and wealthy.

And 99th percentile is meeting point the "working rich" and the very rich.

[Anonymous]

Household income distribution.

80th percentile (Top 20%): $153K

90th percentile (Top 10%): $216K

95th percentile (Top 5%): $295K

99th percentile (Top 1%): $592K

The top 20% is twice the median HH income and up. The 95th percentile is about double the 80th percentile and 4 times the median HH, so quite a different world from the entry level to UMC, and really hard to say there's anything "middling" about it. The 99th percentile is twice the 95th.

So perhaps a top 20%/top 5%/top 1% split makes sense.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, here's the link: https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-household-income-percentiles/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Yes, you are upper class. Sorry if that offends you. Does that mean you are obscenely wealthy? Not it does not. But 95 percent of households in the US make less than yours does. I don't know how much more plainly it can be put. You (like me in my similar circumstances) are upper class.

you are out of touch with reality. It's not about percentages it's about the scale of wealth that's exponentially skewed towards fractions of a percent holding majority of the wealth. and the scale is still moving towards the tinier fractions of a percent. The definition of what it means to be rich may still be the same but you have to now be in a smaller percentage of population to achieve this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am from England where we have a real class system, based on birth, education, profession rather than just finances.

Here in the US the "class" system is a joke.

I am so glad we don't have a class system like yours. I do agree that all the strivers here are jokes.

I read on linked in that each class in the UK has their own culture significant and pride that comes with it. So there is less “striving” implied. Is that true?

Either way, I am glad we don’t have that. I can’t control my birth but I can control how to manage my life after 18.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's how I see it.

60% or so America is the working class.

80th percentile is you're kind of the meeting point of solidly middle class and the upper middle class.

90th percentile is the upper middle class.

95th percentile is meeting point between upper middle class and wealthy.

And 99th percentile is meeting point the "working rich" and the very rich.

So middle means 80th%? Makes sense.

[Anonymous]

The numbers don’t mean anything, it’s all about how much debt you’re in

[Anonymous]

Class has nothing to do with income.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Yes, you have much more in common with your cleaning lady from El Salvador WORKING CLASS

than the guy at the yacht club in Nantucket. RICH

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I once read an article referencing the “working wealthy,” which is basically the next income bracket after upper middle class. I would place the limit of UMC at a HHI of around $350k in this area. Thats the amount made by 2 higher level GS employees. Basically two solid professional incomes, or one high income + a SAH or part time working partner.

After that, you’d get into higher income levels, but a lot of those people still consider themselves upper middle because their livelihoods are still based on income. Whereas the really wealthy may or may not be high earners, but they have inherited wealth that means that they can take lower paying jobs at non-profits and such and live off of trust funds and live in a house that’s been in the family for generations.

I know two families with incomes of $350+ who ended up buying in PG and Charles because they were priced out of their most desired counties. I feel like you have to not only make an income but have a survivable savings to cross from middle to upper middle to working wealthy to upper class

That’s going to be a continuing problem for higher earning Millennials and eventually Gen Z. Most people’s primary contributor to their net worth is their home. It was far easier for Boomers/Gen X/oldest Millennials, who got in after the housing crash of the recession but before prices went super crazy during Covid, to trade up in the housing market and get on the property ladder. Even with a ~$300k HHI, it’s very difficult to save enough for a DP on say a $1.5 million home, or even an $800k home, without equity from a previous home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's a calculator in the WaPo where you can input your income, household, and zip code:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/interactive/2023/middle-class-income/

HHI of $300k in Arlington, where we live in a 1930s 1400 sqft home and we've never paid more than $30k for a car, so we don't drive very nice ones. (Our income has risen a lot in the last 6 years; we bought the house when our HHI was closer to $200k).

We also are putting 2 kids through college (albeit state college) without loans, have saved for a comfortable retirement, and if one of us lost our jobs (highly unlikely), we have enough savings to pull us through about 7 months without breaking a sweat. We live a very comfortable life.

The WaPo calculator puts us in the top 5% of incomes in the US and says the following:

Your household’s income is too high to be considered middle class, and you have financial security. You live in a very high-income Zip code and make more money than most households in the D.C. metro area. The D.C. metro area is an expensive place to live, and you would still be considered high income anywhere in the country.

Many Americans consider themselves middle class even if they have very high incomes and deep financial resources. According to sociologist Rachel Sherman, that might be because the middle class is associated with morality and hard work in American culture. “A lot of people in the top 5 or 10 percent would define themselves as upper-middle class, because people don’t like to define themselves as upper class,” Sherman explained. “There’s a lot of ambivalence about being rich, and wealthy people resolve that by thinking of themselves as hard-working and implicitly middle class.”

FWIW, I think this is completely accurate. I grew up middle class, so I know what that looks like. This ain't it.

I understand the cognitive dissonance that occurs when one looks at their very modest home and is asked to consider themselves "upper class." But if I am in the top 5% of households, I cannot reasonably call myself "upper middle class."

Yes you can. Upper class is 1% at a maximum. You're UMC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are absolutely upper class by economic standards (hhi @$1M) but we don’t live an extremely upper class lifestyle. We live in nyc and own our home and a second home and pay for private school but we don’t take super luxury vacations and don’t fly first class with our kids, don’t buy or wear designer clothing etc. We budget and make choices about how we spend our money because it isn’t unlimited.
I think that’s the reality for a lot of UMC and UC families. There’s a big difference between $1M hhi and $10 or $100m.

Is this satire? Ok, you don't live an EXTREMELY upper class lifestyle. You live a VERY upper class lifestyle.

"Don't fly first class with our kids"--ISWYDT LOL

They live a UMC lifestyle.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/line-between-middle-class-upper-110130857.html

Varies by state.

I love that you provided actual data.

Short version - upper middle class ends around 200k in DC/MD/VA (175 in Virginia as whole, NoVa would probably be closer to 200k)

Oh yay! DH and I with our 290k HHI from 2 fed salaries and our 2,300 sq ft 1940s rambler, and 529s that will hopefully cover state schools someday are upper class! I’m so excited to hear this. We are basically the same as the people who own second homes in Nantucket and spend their breaks aboard yachts.

Yes, you are upper class. Sorry if that offends you. Does that mean you are obscenely wealthy? Not it does not. But 95 percent of households in the US make less than yours does. I don't know how much more plainly it can be put. You (like me in my similar circumstances) are upper class.

I make twice what you two and I'm not upper class. UMC for sure. But not UC. Stop kidding yourself.