ACLU sues Jackson-Reed

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those who are unfamiliar with this film, it has nothing to do with the current war in Gaza....it is about political lobbying in the U.S., particularly AIPAC (the American Israel Political Action Committee), which is a very conservative and powerful lobbying group. One of the main problems with the film is that it uses terms like the "Jewish Lobby" to refer to this one group, totally ignoring that there are progressive Jewish political action committees as well and that the vast majority of Jewish Americans are left leaning and don't vote on issues related to Israel. It therefore treats Jewish Americans like a monolith with dual loyalty (not to mention a lot of other antisemitic tropes, e.g., global conspiriacies, money grubbing).

That’s hugely problematic. One of the reasons that I think trying to silence any objective criticism of Israel (e.g. calling standard left of center Israeli political party talking points “anti-Semitic”) is dangerous is that when you silence people who don’t want to be thought of as anti-Semites, the only people left raising objections to obvious excesses by Israel are actual anti-Semites.

In my experience, it's the "actual antisemites" who have been shouting down people with standard left of center Israeli political party talking points, not Jews.

That’s not my experience. As a Jew who speaks Hebrew and lived in Israel, I’ve been shouted down and called a liar by both right-wing Gush Eminem type Jews and MAGA Christians when recounting my actual first hand experiences from living in Jerusalem. When I recount my personal, first hand experiences on this board, for example, I’m always called an anti-Semite by people for whom that is a knee jerk reaction to even the mildest criticism of Israel.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

I appreciate your running this site, and keeping what could be pure rabble under control, but you're wrong on the video.

I have had to watch it (though honestly, I'm not sure the short cut or the long one?). The explicit and implicit talk that Jews control 'the American mind' as the title puts it, is classical anti-semitism. It's repeated throughout the film.


You can put together a documentary that discusses current events without anti-semitism, but this ain't it.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

I appreciate your running this site, and keeping what could be pure rabble under control, but you're wrong on the video.

I have had to watch it (though honestly, I'm not sure the short cut or the long one?). The explicit and implicit talk that Jews control 'the American mind' as the title puts it, is classical anti-semitism. It's repeated throughout the film.


You can put together a documentary that discusses current events without anti-semitism, but this ain't it.

You are misstating the title which is "The Occupation of the American Mind" which is obviously a reference to the occupation of the Palestinian territories. Nevertheless, I'm not thrilled with that title because it is very close to the classic anti-Semitic trope as you misstated. Still, fixating on the title and ignoring the substance of the video is missing the forest for the trees. As I noted in my earlier post, the idea that Israel is "brainwashing" Americans is explicitly refuted in the film. Your claim that the idea that Israel "controls the American mind" is repeated throughout the film is simply not true. Watch the version that the students want to show and see for yourself.

The video is not balanced. It does not show both sides. It was not meant to. But that does not mean that it is inaccurate or should not be shown or that it is anti-Semitic. Simply brushing the film of as "anti-Semitic" is engaging in exactly the sort of tactics criticized in the video.

[Anonymous]

The title itself is an important issue, though.

All students will be exposed to the title, which will be hung on posters on the walls at the school they are required by law to attend.

And that title is anti-Semitic (or as you put it, “very close to the classic anti-Semitic trope”). It tells Jewish students that they don’t belong, aren’t welcome, and aren’t safe at school. A cynic might say that is the entire point of this project.

Imagine a knot-tying club advertised its meetings with a poster of a noose. The club itself is really just a bunch of kids tying knots. The club is fine, although a cynic might say it’s pretextual. Does that make it ok to hang images of nooses all over the school?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:The title itself is an important issue, though.

All students will be exposed to the title, which will be hung on posters on the walls at the school they are required by law to attend.

And that title is anti-Semitic (or as you put it, “very close to the classic anti-Semitic trope”). It tells Jewish students that they don’t belong, aren’t welcome, and aren’t safe at school. A cynic might say that is the entire point of this project.

Imagine a knot-tying club advertised its meetings with a poster of a noose. The club itself is really just a bunch of kids tying knots. The club is fine, although a cynic might say it’s pretextual. Does that make it ok to hang images of nooses all over the school?

That is quite a stretch but rather than debate the issue let me just ask you this. Would you agree to allow the video to be shown if it were advertised simply as a video that describes how pro-Israel groups have influenced American perceptions of the Israel-Palestine conflict without using its title?

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The title itself is an important issue, though.

All students will be exposed to the title, which will be hung on posters on the walls at the school they are required by law to attend.

And that title is anti-Semitic (or as you put it, “very close to the classic anti-Semitic trope”). It tells Jewish students that they don’t belong, aren’t welcome, and aren’t safe at school. A cynic might say that is the entire point of this project.

Imagine a knot-tying club advertised its meetings with a poster of a noose. The club itself is really just a bunch of kids tying knots. The club is fine, although a cynic might say it’s pretextual. Does that make it ok to hang images of nooses all over the school?

That is quite a stretch but rather than debate the issue let me just ask you this. Would you agree to allow the video to be shown if it were advertised simply as a video that describes how pro-Israel groups have influenced American perceptions of the Israel-Palestine conflict without using its title?

What makes you believe the plaintiffs and/or the ACLU would be satisfied by that arrangement? Dictating the language they can use on a poster seems like a classic infringement of free speech.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

dp: I think you are looking for gotchas rather than acknowledging the complexities of the situation.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

Obviously any 50 minute video about the Israel-Palestine conflict is going to leave a lot out. As I said in my review, I expect that even Palestinians would quibble about things. More than likely they would similarly argue that important aspects were ignored. But, to be clear, the film did not deny that Hamas is anti-Semitic and your accusation is untrue. Rather, the film did not address that topic. That may be a legitimate complaint, but that is not the complaint that you have articulated.

The video did describe Hamas as both a religious and political movement and described some of the terrorist events in which it had been involved.

Stop lying. The film goes into detail excusing the anti-semitic Hamas charter. And obviously just leaving that part out is a huge distortion.

I’m not against showing the doc at school but just like with Maus, the school is justified in taking steps to prevent disruption and harassment.

The version of the video that I watched, which is the version the students want to present at school, does not do that. So it is actually you who is lying and I invite everyone to view the film themselves and confirm which of us is being truthful.

I am not sure why you are comparing books that are assigned reading to a film being presented as a voluntary activity during non-classroom hours. No students are being assigned to watch the video.

Directly from the transcript - claims thay the Hamas charter calling for the slaughter of the Jews is meaningless and just exploited for propaganda:

“And Luntz goes onto say that one of the most effective ways to make the conflict about terrorism is to refer to an obscure political document written in 1988 by a small group of ideologues, the Hamas Charter, that calls for the destruction of Israel. Even though the Hamas leadership effectively disowned the Charter a long time ago, it’s been PR gold for Israel. Luntz’s research discovered that when Americans hear the words of the Charter, Israel goes from bully to victim, and sympathy for the plight of the Palestinians dissipates. So, he says, Don’t just quote it, read it -- out loud -- again and again. And his advice has been taken up – often hysterically – by Israel’s advocates.”

https://www.mediaed.org/transcripts/The-Occupation-Of-The-American-Mind-Transcript.pdf

Just *imagine* if anything CLOSE to that was said about any other ethnic/racial group.

I just confirmed that that section is not included in the abridged version that the students want to present. You can go to 16:46 of the video here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

to conform for yourself. It would be really helpful for this discussion if you would just watch the video yourself so that I would not have to keep correcting your misinformation.

I will also note, however, that the advice that Luntz is quoted as offering as been followed assiduously. You will not find a single discussion here about Hamas in which its charter is not brought up. So, I am not sure why you find this objectionable.

Oh so you’re doubling down on the “anti-semitism is not real - it’s just hasbara propaganda.” Nice.

I am not sure to what anti-Semitism you are referring, but the video that the students want to show is not anti-Semitic. Accusations that the video is anti-Semitic may be "hasbara" but they are more likely simply your clumsy effort to denigrate the video. In either case, the accusation is wrong.

It is notable that I have repeatedly suggested that others view the video in order to confirm that my description is correct. But, none of the opponents have similarly suggested that the video be watched to confirm that their accusations are true. Rather, you have made false statements and engaged in this type of post that ignores substance and puts false words in my mouth.

[Anonymous]

It is, indeed, the complexity and sensitivities around this issue/film that is why the school and principal were justified in wanting to be thoughtful and deliberate before letting the students show the film. In fact, it would be totally irresponsible for a school to rubberstamp any film on this topic without viewing it and considering how it would impact the student body and figuring out how the group could go forward to stage a viewing in a safe way.