s/o How do we screen potential spouses for mental illness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My sister married someone who was mentally ill. Here were some of the tells:
*Unreallistic expectations and plans about life in general and in specifics
*Gaps in personal history, stories don’t add up (My dad and I both wondered if he had been in a hospital or something due to vague timelines/missing details on years)
*Fibs/fabulism/exaggerations/lies (delusions)
*Immature for age
*Difficulty with goals

VERY true.

Big disconnect between Intentions vs What actually happens. Or What they say vs What they actually do.

ANd the lies of Omission where constant. Constantly hiding mistakes, messes, broken things, problems. Then DARVO kicks in when someone askes what happened here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How about we not stigmatize mental illness any more than it already is? Are you really suggesting people with ADHD, anxiety, autism, depression, etc should never get married?? The vast majority of these people can have happy lives. Supportive families make a world of difference too, in the ability to access and participate in mental health care.

There's nothing wrong with screening for specific red flags, like most mentioned in this thread. But how about you not stereotype *all* people with mental health struggles into this category of "not worthy of marriage".

No one is saying the above.

Diagnoses and actively managing symptoms is what matters. SImilar to how children are diagnosed, have a med team, and a therapy team and their loved ones have therapy for parenting and healthy coping methods

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finding out your spouse has autism after marriage? Lol, what? Or narcissism? Or OCD? Unless you are marrying someone you have known a few months or less -- which no one should be doing anyway -- you knew about these things before you said "I do."

People don't suddenly figure out two kids into a marriage that their spouse is self-involved with no social skills. They decide they could have done better when they are two kids into the marriage (which may or may not be true -- probably not) and start labeling/diagnosing and complaining on the internet and making drama in general (because they are likely not at par either).

I mean I definitely know people who were diagnosed with ADHD and (more rarely) autism waaaaay after marriage and kids — usually when their kids were in elementary school and diagnosed and the affected parent was like “That’s not [diagnosis]; that’s just life. Right? …right?” Maybe less so these days where mental health speak is commonplace but it definitely used to happen.

Being diagnosed after marriage and kids doesn't mean the issue suddenly appeared after marriage and kids. It was there before; it just hadn't been given a diagnosis code by a professional yet. And it isn't like the diagnosis is there, and then suddenly massive dysfunction that wasn't there before arises. That is not how it works. And autism does not spontaneously occur in adults. By the time you are an adult, your neurodevelopment is complete. Similar thing with ADHD and the serious mental illnesses. ADHD develops in childhood, whether diagnosed then, or not. Bipolar disorder can develop a bit later, in the teens or possibly early 20s. But none of these issues are going to spontaneously arise in a 40 year old man, rendering him suddenly unable to help with the dishes or make small talk with the other dads at soccer or whatever.

Again -- people know what they are getting, and they marry anyway. Sure, it can get worse. But it was there; some people gamble on it, thinking it will get better or that the person's good looks/income/whatever make it worth it. Sometimes maybe it does. Usually not. But I don't believe people need some list of red flags from this website to assess this stuff -- they know what they are getting into and then want to cry when the gamble doesn't pay off. I get it, it's hard and disappointing, but enough with acting shocked and bewildered when you got what you settled for.

My point wasn’t that there was some huge shift in behavior — obviously the person always had adhd/autism/whatever — but rather that people sometimes don’t know *themselves* that they have a mental illness which makes it harder for the people they’re dating to know.

And not all the traits and behaviors are immediately visible; a lot of people get through young adulthood without a diagnosis because they’re able to manage well enough to mask or cope with the things they find hard. And then they have kids (which leads to sleep deprivation and truly terrifying levels of things that need to get done and emotional labor) and their coping skills just don’t work any more and their spouse is left wondering what happened:

1- The spouse who didn’t seem self involved when you married them now does because they haven’t increased the amount they’re contributing to the family home (because actually the level of contribution they had before the baby came maxed out their executive function abilities but no one realized it until more was demanded of them);
2 - the spouse who used to have reasonable social skills non longer does (because they’re totally touched out with two under two or simply cannot understand and support an elementary schooler’s social needs).

I think it’s reasonable for people who had one vision of marriage or parenting and had a spouse who seemed and acted on board with that plan only to have them fail to be disappointed/annoyed at the situation, just like people whose spouse ends with unexpected (physical) medical needs complain and vent.

But I do agree with you — there’s no hard and fast list of red flags and you have to do your best to assess what behaviours (associated with mental illness or otherwise) you can live with and which you can’t.

It is true, if you grew up in an ASD household, all those ASD traits seem "normal." And since none of them were very social nor socializing, the ASD or NT kids wouldn't necessarily pick up on it.

Having kids totally makes EVERYONE revert to behaving like their Mom, Dad or both. It's all you know. Unless you actively work on it.

It makes total sense that a high performing autistic person can "fake it" through being a homebody or tagging along with extraverts in college or after work, and then hit the wall when they're married and now need to help lead the family, spouse and raise children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you also screening for other life altering conditions and weeding those people out? Heart disease, cancer, diabetes, dementia… all of these are going to change your quality of life too.

What about those who aren’t mentally ill but have obsessive hobbies like cycling and Ironmans?

Best stay single as humans are human.

Again it's a matter of SELF AWARENESS and managing your shortcomings, whether they be overweight, high cholesterol, executive functioning deficiencies, severe mood swings, raging tempers.

Be your best self and body. Which means you don't put your head in the sand when you have a problem with yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are you also screening for other life altering conditions and weeding those people out? Heart disease, cancer, diabetes, dementia… all of these are going to change your quality of life too.

What about those who aren’t mentally ill but have obsessive hobbies like cycling and Ironmans?

Best stay single as humans are human.

The most self-involved man I ever had the misfortune to get involved with did Ironmans. Still does, and he is well into his 50s.

I was at his wedding and I heard the officiant say “Marathons is something Larlo and Larla share on the weekends” and I thought to myself “Good, he found someone who also loves that stuff” and then the officiant said “Larlo running them, and Larla cheering him on from the sidelines.”

Ugh. Bullet dodged.

[Anonymous]

The difference between mental illnesses and physical illnesses in many cases is that mentally ill people often refuse ANY treatment and are in complete denial because of the stigma, which leaves their illnesses to get worse, which makes the stigma of mental illness worse. It’s a vicious cycle and I don’t blame anyone for avoiding it. My parents both had mental illness and it derailed everything in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Finding out your spouse has autism after marriage? Lol, what? Or narcissism? Or OCD? Unless you are marrying someone you have known a few months or less -- which no one should be doing anyway -- you knew about these things before you said "I do."

People don't suddenly figure out two kids into a marriage that their spouse is self-involved with no social skills. They decide they could have done better when they are two kids into the marriage (which may or may not be true -- probably not) and start labeling/diagnosing and complaining on the internet and making drama in general (because they are likely not at par either).

I mean I definitely know people who were diagnosed with ADHD and (more rarely) autism waaaaay after marriage and kids — usually when their kids were in elementary school and diagnosed and the affected parent was like “That’s not [diagnosis]; that’s just life. Right? …right?” Maybe less so these days where mental health speak is commonplace but it definitely used to happen.

Being diagnosed after marriage and kids doesn't mean the issue suddenly appeared after marriage and kids. It was there before; it just hadn't been given a diagnosis code by a professional yet. And it isn't like the diagnosis is there, and then suddenly massive dysfunction that wasn't there before arises. That is not how it works. And autism does not spontaneously occur in adults. By the time you are an adult, your neurodevelopment is complete. Similar thing with ADHD and the serious mental illnesses. ADHD develops in childhood, whether diagnosed then, or not. Bipolar disorder can develop a bit later, in the teens or possibly early 20s. But none of these issues are going to spontaneously arise in a 40 year old man, rendering him suddenly unable to help with the dishes or make small talk with the other dads at soccer or whatever.

Again -- people know what they are getting, and they marry anyway. Sure, it can get worse. But it was there; some people gamble on it, thinking it will get better or that the person's good looks/income/whatever make it worth it. Sometimes maybe it does. Usually not. But I don't believe people need some list of red flags from this website to assess this stuff -- they know what they are getting into and then want to cry when the gamble doesn't pay off. I get it, it's hard and disappointing, but enough with acting shocked and bewildered when you got what you settled for.

NP. You’re speaking from a place of great fortune. If you had experienced what it’s like for someone to change on you or become their worst self due to life stresses or other reasons, you wouldn’t be posting so arrogantly. Life will humble you.

+1,000,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The difference between mental illnesses and physical illnesses in many cases is that mentally ill people often refuse ANY treatment and are in complete denial because of the stigma, which leaves their illnesses to get worse, which makes the stigma of mental illness worse.

It’s a vicious cycle and I don’t blame anyone for avoiding it. My parents both had mental illness and it derailed everything in their lives.

Agree it’s sad. They have to want to put forth the effort to improve themselves. And then do it. All loved ones can do is make space for that to happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a great question. TBH, looking back, there were red flags. But I rationalized them and went ahead because I had poor judgment in my mid 20s.

This.

My husband has a personality disorder and a couple of diagnosed mental illnesses. There were red flags in hindsight and I even caught some. I just wasn’t savvy enough to understand how big they were nor did I have enough self-worth to believe my gut over his pretense.

Another upvote for this concept.

Mine also hid behind me for years, followed whatever I did, no complaints…….until he got an AP, and we got divorced.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Jumping off from the wife saying her husband does nothing to help at home, she has to remind him to shower and dress appropriately for work and didn't find out until after marriage and kids that he has depression and anxiety, etc. The truth is, there are a LOT of threads like this one - people finding out their spouse as autism or is narcissistic or OCD or a myriad of other big issues that if they knew about they may not have chosen to marry and/or procreate with this person.

Since the majority of us are not psychologists, how do we screen to make sure we're not marrying someone like this? What are the tell-tale signs that we were ignoring? Maybe this can help some of the people here who are dating to avoid an unhappy marriage down the line.

I think people will widen up to these “Invisible disabilities” because they created chaos and dysfunction in life.

So in addition to Adultery- avoiding womanizers, Addiction- avoiding those with bad vices, and Abuse- avoiding those with obvious physical or verbal abuse, one will have to be on the lookout for a pattern of behavior that’s bad and that the person denies or won’t seek help for.

That’s certainly what I am telling my daughters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm the OP of that thread. For us, having a child exacerbated the mental illnesses. There was no way to tell before because he was masking it. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 but there were little incidents but it was really well hidden

NP and this was my experience too. XDH looked great on paper, with undergrad and grad degrees from impressive schools you'd want your kids to go to and a job that requires a high level of functioning. He was/is tall, dark and handsome. People who knew us told me I was dating a "really nice guy."

There were a few signs, including a mom and a brother with undiagnosed (at the time of our marriage) issues. But I could always look to XDH's amazingly successful dad to convince myself that XDH had inherited strong genes.

It wasn't until we had the second kid that the wheels came off. And only in the last few years, after our kids entered college, has he received ADHD and bipolar diagnoses. It was after the kids that I learned that he makes horrific financial and other decisions (think: buying two cars in the span of four months). It was after marriage that I learned what his bosses really thought of him. And to compound it all, to justify various setbacks he basically brought on himself, he gets defensive and abusive and blames everybody around him. He's managed to estranged himself from me (he ex-wife, which didn't have to be a given) and from both his adult kids, which is no small feat given how understanding both kids are.

A friend who married a guy with asthma said she wished we could all get genetic tests before marriage. She was only partly joking.

[Anonymous]

I agree with the posters who say that recognizing ADHD or bipolar is harder when you haven't seen it among your own family or friends.

That decision that seemed a bit manic was just quirky eccentricity, wasn't it?

And sure, he forgot to bring the paperwork to whatever event needed paperwork, but Einstein was absent-minded too, right?

I guess the best solution is to educate yourself when you see a red flag.

[Anonymous]

Fortunately I'm a logistics and planning goddess, so I managed to keep the household running despite XDH.

I was always walking on eggshells not to offend him, though. I turned down two attempts to promote me because XDH said various things showing he felt threatened.

And guess what, XDH now blames me for his many self-inflicted issues. Easier than blaming himself, I suppose.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference between mental illnesses and physical illnesses in many cases is that mentally ill people often refuse ANY treatment and are in complete denial because of the stigma, which leaves their illnesses to get worse, which makes the stigma of mental illness worse.

It’s a vicious cycle and I don’t blame anyone for avoiding it. My parents both had mental illness and it derailed everything in their lives.

Agree it’s sad. They have to want to put forth the effort to improve themselves. And then do it. All loved ones can do is make space for that to happen.

You realize that stigma, with this thread a s a perfect example, is part of what keeps people from proper mental health treatment?

It’s perfectly acceptable to engage in self care like diet, exercise, etc. flr diabetes, but engaging in self care like going to bed early, going to therapy, etc. are seen as weak or indulgent. Medications for psychiatric conditions have notoriously horrible side effects, if they work at all (which for a great percentage of people, they don’t).

It would be super great if people saw mental health issues as actual health issues, and not issues of laziness ans attitude. It would be great if medications and treatments worked as clearly for them as they do for many physical illnesses, but they don’t. Imagine if people had the understanding, empathy, grace and kindness when addressing mental illness that they do for physical illnesses. There’s be a lot more healing and a lot less pain.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree with the posters who say that recognizing ADHD or bipolar is harder when you haven't seen it among your own family or friends.

That decision that seemed a bit manic was just quirky eccentricity, wasn't it?

And sure, he forgot to bring the paperwork to whatever event needed paperwork, but Einstein was absent-minded too, right?

I guess the best solution is to educate yourself when you see a red flag.

FYI Einstein was a slob whose first wife, also a PhD, did all his documenting, experiments and scheduling.
She divorced him and he didn’t publish again.