Vent: My son unintentionally shamed my brother, who then "told on me" to our parents

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

This raises a red flag for me. Is your mom sending him over when she's at her wit's end and feeling resentful? Or, if he did have a mental illness like bipolar/depression, I could see mom thinking, "oh, he's in a funk, going to sis's house and spending some time with 7-year-old would cheer him up". It doesn't sound like he's coming because he wants to. So of course he doesn't want to engage with the kids and gets upset with their comments.

But, I've had two 7-year-old boys of my own and was once a Kindergarten teacher. Don't underestimate what they will repeat to another adult, even if they don't understand what they are saying. Also, if they were doing a career day, community helpers unit, even a math unit on money, they will become obsessed for a short time on what grown ups do for work. And unfortunately, stay at home moms and grandparents are the only ones who don't have to work in their little worlds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

DH and I are very careful to not talk in front of the kids about my brother. I think it was more that DS doesn't know any grown men without jobs, and was thinking out loud as he struggled to understand the situation. All he sees is my brother sitting or laying on the couch when he's here. He won't even play on the floor with the kids or go outside to draw with chalk on the driveway. Also, we don't invite my brother. My mother calls and announces she's "sending" him over. He used to try to bring dirty laundry thinking I'd do it for him. DH finally told him after the 4th or 5th time that was never going to happen.

Out if the mouths of babes? 🤷‍♀️

The truth hurts for your brother and parents who have enabled him. You’re not obliged to join in the crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brother went home and complained to mommy and daddy. Yikes! OP, we don’t know how old your parents are, but be prepared for your parents to ask you to welcome your brother into YOUR house when they pass away.

This. OP im in the same situation, though I had to set very intense boundaries with them all. I made it very clear that I'm not going to enable his lifestyle after they are gone (one parent already passed.) if he can't work, he can go on disability (which my brother refuses to do.) if he can work, he can work. If he has a mental illness, I can get him help. If he doesn't, there is no need for me.

They are seem to think there is a third option. I suppose there is: my parents enabling him. But that third option is really so, so dysfunctional. Don't enter into it.

I've said all of this to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They sound vastly coddling and overprotective of him. He’s not disabled? Surely he’s heard friends and other people ask the same question.

I’ve been self employed for two decades and at one time was a stay at home parent. I get how that question can be awkward for people without W2s, but it’s a typical small talk thing.

Pretty sure all the forms at the doctors office etc ask for your profession. What does the Large Adult Son write on the forms? He must have encountered the question before.

My brother is really bad at his job and doesn’t earn very much money. His wife is lazy and doesn’t work. My parents give them significant amounts of money so the grandchildren have a house etc. We have this same weird dynamic where saying anything at all about it is regarded as us being jealous or shaming them. Instead we are all required to pretend that he is very successful, and that he can afford the house, vacations etc. I also don’t know what to say when my kids want to know why his family can afford private school, a big house and expensive vacations while my husband and I each have two jobs each and we can’t. He is favored and enabled and it is a form of parental welfare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I empathize deeply. I have a brother like this (coddles, enabled, lives at home, never worked) though like another PP, he has developed some mental illnesses and I limit contact. My kids know he's a terrible example. They are too young to understand how my parents enabled him.

The truth spills out sometimes. Your parents don't want to face it. Mine freak out whenever it comes out from other people (a young relative who told him: "you aren't a grown up, you are just a big kid"). All of them are in denial and hearing the truth hurts.

None of this is your fault. It kind of feels like gaslighting,when you can see reality and your family or origin denies it. Don't feel guilty.

The other pps responding who don't have this situation don't get it.

And the people with diagnosed mental illness or with mentally ill family members get it too. We need to fund more research and can't do this if every stupid elderly parent hides his middle-aged non-functional adult child behind closed doors.

You both need to replace the word "enable" with "support." When mentally ill people cannot support themselves (and you has to realize that many cannot), someone has to, and our country basically has no options for the vast majority of people. See, e.g. the homeless crisis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Brother went home and complained to mommy and daddy. Yikes! OP, we don’t know how old your parents are, but be prepared for your parents to ask you to welcome your brother into YOUR house when they pass away.

This. OP im in the same situation, though I had to set very intense boundaries with them all. I made it very clear that I'm not going to enable his lifestyle after they are gone (one parent already passed.) if he can't work, he can go on disability (which my brother refuses to do.) if he can work, he can work. If he has a mental illness, I can get him help. If he doesn't, there is no need for me.

They are seem to think there is a third option. I suppose there is: my parents enabling him. But that third option is really so, so dysfunctional. Don't enter into it.

I've said all of this to them.

This is a very naive sentiment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this isn’t fake, the idea of a 7-year-old grilling his uncle about what he does all day seems really inorganic. Kids don’t sit around thinking about this shit.

Said by a childless person. One of my kids is like Young Sheldon and he asks questions like this all the time. He’s trying to figure out the world around him. It’s not that uncommon.

I actually have two kids, both older than 7, both curious about the world but neither would ever think to question an uncle’s occupational status.

[Anonymous]

You allowed your young son to go on for some time needling your brother before you told him to stop? Where you finding this public shaming of your brother enjoyable to watch, or something?

Wow, OP. Get yourself to a counselor to sort out your anger management issues before you instill them in your own son.

You are teaching your son that it is okay to hold contempt for any who has less than he does, hasn't been quite as lucky in life, is struggling, or has chosen a different life path.

You are teaching your son that it is okay to shame people, to lord himself over others, to ask prying questions he will know are uncomfortable simply to needle someone else, and how to kick people who are down.

You will get what you raise. Hopefully your son won't turn on you in your old age and ask why you're so lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why does everyone assume mental illness? He might just have a strong preference for leisure that his parents have enabled.

Love this phrasing. Strong preference for leisure.

[Anonymous]

Only you can decide where your boundaries are and what you are willing to do, or not, to keep the peace. FWIW you (and your son) are right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If this isn’t fake, the idea of a 7-year-old grilling his uncle about what he does all day seems really inorganic. Kids don’t sit around thinking about this shit.

Said by a childless person. One of my kids is like Young Sheldon and he asks questions like this all the time. He’s trying to figure out the world around him. It’s not that uncommon.

I actually have two kids, both older than 7, both curious about the world but neither would ever think to question an uncle’s occupational status.

My kids would think it was weird if their uncles (my brothers) lived with my parents and didn’t work. Because it is weird!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Brother went home and complained to mommy and daddy. Yikes! OP, we don’t know how old your parents are, but be prepared for your parents to ask you to welcome your brother into YOUR house when they pass away.

This!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like your son was parroting comments and sentiments you yourself had expressed. You invited someone to your home only to mock him and enlist your elementary school son in the process. That is no way to treat a guest. You owe him an apology. I suggest counseling to deal with your deep rooted latent hostility and anger towards your family. They’re all obviously fine with their living and support arrangements. You, on the other hand, are seething with rage. Please get help soon and stop attacking those who love you.

This. Although, I understand your rage and your rage is a YOU problem. Expect the enabling to continue for your whole life until and after your parents die. They will probably give everything to him. Focus on what they gave you - enough hardship thay you learned to take care of yourself and your family. Get to a place where you are grateful for that.

[Anonymous]

OP, your parents and brother plan for you to become his caretaker in the future. Sending him over with dirty laundry certainly supports that. I'd have a frank discussion with them if you will not do so. They need to make other plans for him. If they plan to leave him assets (or can), there needs to be a trustee.

This goes well beyond a child asking a question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Give the apology.

However, also say that you hope he understands that you expect your son to be fully employed and are raising him that way. While he's at your home you expect him to instill those same values and not give your son the impression that not having a job and living with parents at 42 is acceptable.

So wither own up to his mistakes, don't bring it up again, or don't come over. His choice.

If this 7 yo kid sees the other adults in his life working every day, why wouldn't he be confused/frustrated with responses from some one that breaks the typical? There's no harm is acknowledging the deviation, the harm is trying to make a kid feel badly about the life choices of three other grown @ssed people.