Uncomfortable truth: non-partiers wind up working for the partiers

[Anonymous]

LOL all the sorority and frat idiots I know are total followers and ended up in middle management at best.

[Anonymous]

This thread is so stupid. There is a vast middle ground where most people find themselves. Not everyone is an extreme cliche.

[Anonymous]

Agree - most of the sorority and frat types I know ended up on the bottom rung of just about everything. Not sure where OP is getting her perspective or insight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

But they get into those PhD programs by making connections within the field. You don't just apply blindly, you reach out and meet profs and see who has funding, etc. It's networking. You need to have the credentials and the research work to back it up, but you also need to network.

[Anonymous]

Here's a nuanced take from my experience (as a junior person interacting with executives): it's a mix. You have the extremely dedicated, honor roll, class president types mixed in with the charming, relationship-building types. They all have presence, charisma, the gift of gab, are extremely smart and, if not attractive, are very well put-together. This goes for both genders.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Naive students and parents, usually middle class and below, disdain the Greek system and talk about how they don't want to participate. They claim they're more serious students and aren't into that scene.

What these people don't understand is that the Greek social scene actually trains you to operate in the business world. You learn the importance of socializing, sizing people up at a glance, social drinking, and how to present yourself so that you're accepted and click with the executive class. Most importantly, you learn that you need to be extroverted and to cultivate connections to succeed in your career.

The nose to the grindstone "strivers" don't learn these things. They think the real world is like the classroom, when in fact it's much like a fraternity social. They dress the wrong way, say the wrong things, and clumsily offer opinions that might be true but are socially awkward. So they get pigeonholed as drones. They don't get the promotions, and they don't get the hot spouses.

I've advised my kids to scout out the best Greek orgs, and they've turned out great. They're not brilliant intellectuals, but their superstars socially and interpersonally. They know how to size up a crowd and maximize the benefit to themselves, to capitalize on opportunities to engage with people who can help them. They also know how to avoid people who will damage their reputations, and they don't hold one ounce of guilt for being what some would say is "mean". They know you can't please everyone, so connect with the important people and be the one who others try to please.

Must be a White person thing. None of the Asian kids in my social network were in frats and they are all doing very well financially, socially and in the business world. Anecdotally, most claimed frats were racist and felt unwelcome when they tried them out as freshmen. The couple that did go through the frat experience are doing no better and I remember their parents complaining about how miserable the first year was for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

But they get into those PhD programs by making connections within the field. You don't just apply blindly, you reach out and meet profs and see who has funding, etc. It's networking. You need to have the credentials and the research work to back it up, but you also need to network.

Sure, but you don't have to be a "partier" in a frat/sorority, as is the premise of the op, to be a good networker and make connections.

[Anonymous]

What about my non-partier, non-nerdy kid with good social skills?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What about my non-partier, non-nerdy kid with good social skills?

As a professional with good social skills, these will take your kid far in the workplace. I admit, I am extraordinarily extraverted and have high EQ, but I am actually confused at how anti-social people are in the workplace now - and I'm only 37. Some people won't even look you in the eye. It is bizarre. Your kid will do well!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:LOL all the sorority and frat idiots I know are total followers and ended up in middle management at best.

+100

I’m not going to dispute the premise that who you know is often more important than what you know. I just don’t think Greek life is all OP is making it out to be. I went to a big southern state school and all the frat guys I know are in normal jobs either in their home state or some mid tier city. My friends/roommates who were in sororities are SAHMs or lower paying jobs like fitness instructor or social worker.

And FWIW I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having an average job is a medium COL city or teaching yoga classes or whatever.

I partied in college, but found the whole Greek life aspect weird. My dorm suite mates were so status obsessed with clothing labels and that felt so fake to me. I’ve also met enough people who peaked in college and still talk about Greek life a decade + later and it’s frankly weird and a little pathetic. I think OP’s kids may end up that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

But they get into those PhD programs by making connections within the field. You don't just apply blindly, you reach out and meet profs and see who has funding, etc. It's networking. You need to have the credentials and the research work to back it up, but you also need to network.

But that networking is sincere and substantive.

Not basted in alcohol and false BS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Depends entirely on your filed.

My kid is getting a science PhD.

Thank God she did not choose a field where success hinges on glad-handing and drinking skills. The ability to make fake small talk and butter up those in the Executive Suite.

But it sounds like you got the flavor of kids you wanted, so it is all good.

But they get into those PhD programs by making connections within the field. You don't just apply blindly, you reach out and meet profs and see who has funding, etc. It's networking. You need to have the credentials and the research work to back it up, but you also need to network.

Sure, but you don't have to be a "partier" in a frat/sorority, as is the premise of the op, to be a good networker and make connections.

I'm the person you quote and I agree. You need social/networking skills but do not have to be a party type.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is covered pretty well by Paul Tough in "The Years that Matter Most: How College Makes or Breaks Us." The short version is that, especially with elite colleges, it is all about the connections you make, and very little is about how well you do with the actual academic work. And the people who don't understand that are confused when they are trying for those plum consulting jobs and the people who hardly did any work at all are getting the interviews. The connections may or may not be Greek, depending on the school.

+1000

Totally agree with this.

-Dartmouth alum

[Anonymous]

I was President of my crappy Frat from a second tier school with a 2.6 GPA and took me five years to graduate. Hard to do when you go out partying 5-6 nights a week till 2-4am.

Towards end of career but was making 400k a year from 2006-2019 in peak of career.

I had Harvard and all type of people work for me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree. I was a nose to the grindstone striver from a blue collar family. I have ADHD and am probably on the autism spectrum. I joined a popular girl sorority in college and I’ve had a decently successful career at a “work hard / play hard” consulting firm. Living in a sorority house with 29 women is basically a 24/7 social skills group.

Bain?