Which W / BCC school is least difficult to not be very wealthy

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Definitely Rock Creek Forest. When my kids went there they felt rich compared to classmates (and we are not rich by any means - 2 feds in a small 3br). But, this changed considerably when they went to Westland/Silver Creek and on to BCC. Now all I hear is how all their friends have elevators in their homes and take great vacations.

Now RCF (and NCC/CCES) feed to Silver a creek rather than Westland, so the diversity is maintained through middle school. Less diversity at BCC for sure though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Transplant_1 wrote:OP here. I'd appreciate serious conversations on this thread.

Thank you 9:13 and 9:28 for your thoughts. Yes, am posting to try to break though the assumptions. So I appreciate your thoughts.

Do you -- or others -- have a sense of BCC and Whitman? They are the two wealthier areas (at least based on home prices. I know BCC has an area in its zone that is not, but kids life in sub-cultures/sub-groups so still trying to figure out what the experience would be like for us.)

My kid attends Whitman. We live in a small house in a nice neighborhood and drive 15/20-year-old cars. No tutors, no college counselors, no fancy internships, no big vacations. DH is a fed and I work at a nonprofit. We do pay a lot for extracurriculars for our only kid. I’d estimate that our HHI is in the bottom third of our neighborhood and maybe bottom quarter of our kid’s school. It’s no big deal recognizing that others have more. We’re comfortable and happy. Love Whitman.

Thank you for your response! Very refreshing and down to earth.

[Anonymous]

They are all great schools. Focus on you and who you are. People with a little and people with a lot are drawn to confident people.
I’ve found that there is a big conversation on wealth and money, where the real conversation should be on values and manners. Personally, I don’t really notice your car, home or wealth. I do notice if you greet others, how you treat service people, your manners at the table, your understanding of etiquette and how you present yourself. These things speak so much more than anything else. A child with these graces and full confidence on who they are, will be ok in whatever situation you place them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Can you explain what is meant by the bolded? In MCPS, kids are not transferred from one school to the other just because of overcrowding.

Are you talking about the school population changing because of a boundary change? That boundary change moved kids from an “overcrowded school” - wealthy neighboring Somerset ES - mostly wealthy single family homes in Somerset and from apartment buildings in Friendship Heights, and from a very small segment of apartments off of Bradley Boulevard and Hillandale. Much of that is still very wealthy.

The FARMS rate went from 1.2% to 5.5%, which is still an extremely low rate. An increase of 5% FARMS represents approximately 30 more poor kids across 5 grades. Are you really saying 6 more poor kids per grade (probs 3 or fewer per class) “infects the environment” as you support the PP saying when she refers to a FARMS rate of 30%, which is much higher than Westbrook’s 5%.

Why are you bringing Viers Mills ES into problems you perceive at Westbrook? No children were transferred from Viers Mills ES to Westbrook ES. The fact that Westbrook has chosen Viers Mills as a “sister school” means that wealthy parents at Westbrook ES support Viers Mills in charitable ways - like having a coat drive.

Your lack of knowledge about Westbrook makes me wonder if you are really a parent there and can legitimately speak to the presence, absence or need for “tough conversations”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Can you explain what is meant by the bolded? In MCPS, kids are not transferred from one school to the other just because of overcrowding.

Are you talking about the school population changing because of a boundary change? That boundary change moved kids from an “overcrowded school” - wealthy neighboring Somerset ES - mostly wealthy single family homes in Somerset and from apartment buildings in Friendship Heights, and from a very small segment of apartments off of Bradley Boulevard and Hillandale. Much of that is still very wealthy.

The FARMS rate went from 1.2% to 5.5%, which is still an extremely low rate. An increase of 5% FARMS represents approximately 30 more poor kids across 5 grades. Are you really saying 6 more poor kids per grade (probs 3 or fewer per class) “infects the environment” as you support the PP saying when she refers to a FARMS rate of 30%, which is much higher than Westbrook’s 5%.

Why are you bringing Viers Mills ES into problems you perceive at Westbrook? No children were transferred from Viers Mills ES to Westbrook ES. The fact that Westbrook has chosen Viers Mills as a “sister school” means that wealthy parents at Westbrook ES support Viers Mills in charitable ways - like having a coat drive.

Your lack of knowledge about Westbrook makes me wonder if you are really a parent there and can legitimately speak to the presence, absence or need for “tough conversations”.

Way to harsh a good narrative!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Can you explain what is meant by the bolded? In MCPS, kids are not transferred from one school to the other just because of overcrowding.

Are you talking about the school population changing because of a boundary change? That boundary change moved kids from an “overcrowded school” - wealthy neighboring Somerset ES - mostly wealthy single family homes in Somerset and from apartment buildings in Friendship Heights, and from a very small segment of apartments off of Bradley Boulevard and Hillandale. Much of that is still very wealthy.

The FARMS rate went from 1.2% to 5.5%, which is still an extremely low rate. An increase of 5% FARMS represents approximately 30 more poor kids across 5 grades. Are you really saying 6 more poor kids per grade (probs 3 or fewer per class) “infects the environment” as you support the PP saying when she refers to a FARMS rate of 30%, which is much higher than Westbrook’s 5%.

Why are you bringing Viers Mills ES into problems you perceive at Westbrook? No children were transferred from Viers Mills ES to Westbrook ES. The fact that Westbrook has chosen Viers Mills as a “sister school” means that wealthy parents at Westbrook ES support Viers Mills in charitable ways - like having a coat drive.

Your lack of knowledge about Westbrook makes me wonder if you are really a parent there and can legitimately speak to the presence, absence or need for “tough conversations”.

Thank you for this, genuinely. The narrative about Westbrook didn't make any sense to me as someone who used to live in the neighborhood, but I didn't have time to jump in. Your breakdown of the actual numbers involved is extremely helpful, and puts lie to the PP's post about some wild shift in student demographics at the school.

The one other thing I would note as a former Somerset resident is that the kids in those apartment buildings in Friendship Heights are disproportionately Embassy kids. That is a very common neighborhood for the more junior embassy staff to live with their families, so you may be getting kids for whom English is a second language, but certainly not kids coming from generational trauma or poverty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Speaking to the bold - as a poor person, I can tell you that pretty much all my problems would go away if I had enough money.

Speaking as a person in the development sector - there is a lot of research that shows that the best thing you can do for a poor person is give them money.

Many, many, many problems go away with money, let’s be real about that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Speaking to the bold - as a poor person, I can tell you that pretty much all my problems would go away if I had enough money.

Speaking as a person in the development sector - there is a lot of research that shows that the best thing you can do for a poor person is give them money.

Many, many, many problems go away with money, let’s be real about that.

Problems typically go away with money because people with money are typically the people who learn to figure out problems. Giving money to losers really only creates losers with newfound money problems and temporarily nicer things. While there are idiots with money and poor people who just need their foot in the door, they are typically the exceptions not the rule to base policy around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Speaking to the bold - as a poor person, I can tell you that pretty much all my problems would go away if I had enough money.

Speaking as a person in the development sector - there is a lot of research that shows that the best thing you can do for a poor person is give them money.

Many, many, many problems go away with money, let’s be real about that.

Problems typically go away with money because people with money are typically the people who learn to figure out problems. Giving money to losers really only creates losers with newfound money problems and temporarily nicer things. While there are idiots with money and poor people who just need their foot in the door, they are typically the exceptions not the rule to base policy around.

AKA "I got mine. So there."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Speaking to the bold - as a poor person, I can tell you that pretty much all my problems would go away if I had enough money.

Speaking as a person in the development sector - there is a lot of research that shows that the best thing you can do for a poor person is give them money.

Many, many, many problems go away with money, let’s be real about that.

Problems typically go away with money because people with money are typically the people who learn to figure out problems. Giving money to losers really only creates losers with newfound money problems and temporarily nicer things. While there are idiots with money and poor people who just need their foot in the door, they are typically the exceptions not the rule to base policy around.

AKA "I got mine. So there."

There isn’t supposed to be free stuff, just a path to go get stuff. There will always be people who don’t want to take the path. There should be a difference in outcomes and the lesser should feel lesser. Ideally it should hurt their pride and feelings and that becomes the driving factor into not sucking.

I fully concede not everyone has to run all the bases or any at all. But progress is measured in generations too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Speaking to the bold - as a poor person, I can tell you that pretty much all my problems would go away if I had enough money.

Speaking as a person in the development sector - there is a lot of research that shows that the best thing you can do for a poor person is give them money.

Many, many, many problems go away with money, let’s be real about that.

Problems typically go away with money because people with money are typically the people who learn to figure out problems. Giving money to losers really only creates losers with newfound money problems and temporarily nicer things. While there are idiots with money and poor people who just need their foot in the door, they are typically the exceptions not the rule to base policy around.

You know what really helps, when you're trying to figure out problems? Having money. You know what is really a huge barrier to figuring out problems? Not having money.

And we're not even talking about huge amounts of money. An extra $500-$1,000/month. For example: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/in-mississippi-a-long-running-guaranteed-income-program-is-helping-black-mothers

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Speaking to the bold - as a poor person, I can tell you that pretty much all my problems would go away if I had enough money.

Speaking as a person in the development sector - there is a lot of research that shows that the best thing you can do for a poor person is give them money.

Many, many, many problems go away with money, let’s be real about that.

Problems typically go away with money because people with money are typically the people who learn to figure out problems. Giving money to losers really only creates losers with newfound money problems and temporarily nicer things. While there are idiots with money and poor people who just need their foot in the door, they are typically the exceptions not the rule to base policy around.

AKA "I got mine. So there."

There isn’t supposed to be free stuff, just a path to go get stuff. There will always be people who don’t want to take the path. There should be a difference in outcomes and the lesser should feel lesser. Ideally it should hurt their pride and feelings and that becomes the driving factor into not sucking.

I fully concede not everyone has to run all the bases or any at all. But progress is measured in generations too.

You literally have one life on this earth. Maybe 80ish years if you're lucky. And this is the outlook you choose. This is how you choose to think about your fellow humans. Wow.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Speaking to the bold - as a poor person, I can tell you that pretty much all my problems would go away if I had enough money.

Speaking as a person in the development sector - there is a lot of research that shows that the best thing you can do for a poor person is give them money.

Many, many, many problems go away with money, let’s be real about that.

Problems typically go away with money because people with money are typically the people who learn to figure out problems. Giving money to losers really only creates losers with newfound money problems and temporarily nicer things. While there are idiots with money and poor people who just need their foot in the door, they are typically the exceptions not the rule to base policy around.

AKA "I got mine. So there."

There isn’t supposed to be free stuff, just a path to go get stuff. There will always be people who don’t want to take the path. There should be a difference in outcomes and the lesser should feel lesser. Ideally it should hurt their pride and feelings and that becomes the driving factor into not sucking.

I fully concede not everyone has to run all the bases or any at all. But progress is measured in generations too.

Just to be clear, there IS a path to free stuff, but only if your parents/grandparents took the right path? So, if your grandparents were sharecroppers because THEIR parents were enslaved, that's just tough nuts?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP the silver spring schools are rubbish. please don't move there because you feel poor compared to some families in Bethesda.

We were not rich and our kids did fine at Whitman. Go for the academically strongest place you can find. Whitman, BCC, Churchill. The second 2 of these will be more diverse, if that matters to you.

How can you know that the SS schools are rubbish? I don't have a dog in this fight, but am considering a MoCo move, and I had the impression that Blair, at least (which is TKPK not SS, I guess) had offerings and outcomes as good as the W/BCC schools.

Blair's college outcomes are a lot better than any W according to the data published by Bethesda Beat.

Also, there was that document that leaked a few years ago that showed the average SAT scores by demographic cohort for each HS was very interesting.

Wouldn't that just reflect that Blair has a competitive magnet program whereas the other schools do not?

And the Ws have their share of rich students. Maybe….. they’re all good?

No. There are plenty of mediocre rich kids. But magnet kids are selected for academics.

Of course, but the demographic population serving the W’s is richer (with fewer poor students), and that trends toward better academic performance. That gives them an edge. I’d be skeptical that demographically similar students at any of these schools perform that differently.

Depends on the distractions, poor kids have poor problems they can’t magically make go away with money. Those can infect an environment. Or is all the research stating that when FARM exceeds 30% that school quality and safety declines precipitously? If all the poor kids concentrated in the DCC don’t affect the middle class kids why is everyone angling so hard to ship them away?

This is so very true. This happened at Westbrook Elementary this year. Folks closed their eyes to it completely because it is a really, really tough conversation. The school received children from overcrowded schools and a big percentage is children in FARMS. The challenges are different and the realities too. The sister school that is traditionally supported at Westbrook is Viers Mill. Now they have to really face that there a big part of their population who have these challenges and the school changed. Is it good or bad? Neither. It is just a reality that needs to be addressed.

Can you explain what is meant by the bolded? In MCPS, kids are not transferred from one school to the other just because of overcrowding.

Are you talking about the school population changing because of a boundary change? That boundary change moved kids from an “overcrowded school” - wealthy neighboring Somerset ES - mostly wealthy single family homes in Somerset and from apartment buildings in Friendship Heights, and from a very small segment of apartments off of Bradley Boulevard and Hillandale. Much of that is still very wealthy.

The FARMS rate went from 1.2% to 5.5%, which is still an extremely low rate. An increase of 5% FARMS represents approximately 30 more poor kids across 5 grades. Are you really saying 6 more poor kids per grade (probs 3 or fewer per class) “infects the environment” as you support the PP saying when she refers to a FARMS rate of 30%, which is much higher than Westbrook’s 5%.

Why are you bringing Viers Mills ES into problems you perceive at Westbrook? No children were transferred from Viers Mills ES to Westbrook ES. The fact that Westbrook has chosen Viers Mills as a “sister school” means that wealthy parents at Westbrook ES support Viers Mills in charitable ways - like having a coat drive.

Your lack of knowledge about Westbrook makes me wonder if you are really a parent there and can legitimately speak to the presence, absence or need for “tough conversations”.

Thank you for this, genuinely. The narrative about Westbrook didn't make any sense to me as someone who used to live in the neighborhood, but I didn't have time to jump in. Your breakdown of the actual numbers involved is extremely helpful, and puts lie to the PP's post about some wild shift in student demographics at the school.

The one other thing I would note as a former Somerset resident is that the kids in those apartment buildings in Friendship Heights are disproportionately Embassy kids. That is a very common neighborhood for the more junior embassy staff to live with their families, so you may be getting kids for whom English is a second language, but certainly not kids coming from generational trauma or poverty.

I am PP to whom you respond. I honestly do not understand how these highly misinformed racist takes on public education get going. I mean, it’s Russian troll farm level stuff - except are Russian troll farms really interested in promoting racism among parents in public education? If so, that is a very, very long game but one that could very well be successful, because people so rarely look at the facts and just buy into this racist stuff. “The poor people are flooding our schools”…. it’s the same weird apocalyptic fear story that is used about the border or to get people to buy weapons because the commies are taking over the deep state.

I genuinely do not understand it.