Court: TJ's New Admission Policy Does Not Discriminate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A main argument in the finding is that not only are Asian students still disproportionate to their share of the population, but the admittance rate for Asian students is higher than for other groups. Therefore, it is not discriminatory against Asians. The counterargument is that relative to the old policy, there are fewer Asian students.

We said exactly this back when we ran the numbers with the new admissions data.

Can't fool math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m so glad that the Court dug into Asra’s lame attempt to turn the text messages and emails into “the TJ papers”.

The depths of her bad faith know no bounds. An embarrassment to her family - including, quite publicly, her son - her race, her community, her profession, and the institutions that have employed and continue to employ her.

Sadly, her attempts to burn everything to the ground will have her laughing all the way to the bank, but at what cost?

A district court and one appellate judge on the three-member 4th Circuit panel agreed with the Coalition’s claims. If the case reaches the Supreme Court, the 4th Circuit decision stands a good chance of being reversed. Realistically, everyone involved in this litigation knew there would be multiple appeals.

1) That’s a big, big if. It’s a weak case, full stop. It’s hard to see how the Supreme Court benefits at all from granting cert in this case.

2) The Court already had a shot at this when the Coalition requested that the 4th Circuit’s original stay back at this time last year be vacated. They voted 6-3 not to vacate, leaving the process up and running for the Class of 2026. Not much has changed since then.

Much has changed. That was an appeal about a stay, while this is the actual case.

So? The material facts haven’t changed at all. If the new admissions policy is unconstitutional now, it was unconstitutional then as well - and by the time the Court actually opines on the case, there may be three new classes at TJ selected in between: 2026, 2027, and 2028. It’s either a problem
or it isn’t.

Courts tend to take their time on decisions, and a ruling on a stay is considerably different.

A ruling on a stay is a ruling of likelihood of success on the merits.

They were asking for an emergency stay, jumping ahead of the 4th circuit decision.

It's almost as if 90% of commenters saying "this is now settled" because of the emergency stay issue have never read about nor understand anything about the supreme court. It is very normal for the supreme court to let a case work its way through the lower courts before it is willing to touch it. I suppose it's wishful thinking on the part of those who hate asians

You say 'hate Asians' but from what I've seen in admissions the number of Asians hasn't changed or has gone up at our school. Admissions were just offered to some weaker Asian students, some of whom declined, and was denied to some of the stronger Asian students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:from WAPO:

“The challenged admissions policy does not disparately impact Asian American students and that the Coalition cannot establish that the Board adopted its race-neutral policy with any discriminatory intent,” the 4th Circuit opinion, written by Judge Robert B. King, reads."

Dropping 20% seems to prove otherwise.

So if a school were to integrate, and for the first time have minority students, does that mean it's discriminatory because the number of white students dropped the next year? Of course not.

Only in this case, there was no segregation beforehand. A new policy was put in of geographic diversity, which has the effect of reducing Asian numbers. Similar to how colleges put in geographic diversity to reduce the number of Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

I mean... so what??? It's not like TJ is hurting for Math Team members. Why on earth does that matter?

Commenters like this completely betray their out-of-whack priorities with regularity.

[Anonymous]

Why even bother going to a school like TJ? I don’t know of any students who went there and were happy. Lots of backstabbing between students in the sophomore and older years as kids try to get a leg up for college admissions. Why subject a kid to this? Life is too short.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I don't see many people announcing with certainty that the Supreme Court won't grant cert - what I see is people saying (correctly) that it's not a slam dunk that they will. Indeed, if they do, it seems a matter of course that they'll overturn the Fourth Circuit decision, which will require the School Board (however it is comprised at that time) to come up with a new way to accomplish largely the same goals.

I don't see them overturning, because they are not considering race as a factor. The geographic distribution isn't quite strong enough for them to rule against that either, especially since there is an at-large pool. Academies of Loudoun would have been more likely to lose, because they have a maximum quota per school, and I think the racial distribution among schools is more segregated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

You mean “wealthier” versus “poorer.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

be happy they have math team. My kids go to an FCPS middle school that doesn't have math counts, science bowl, quiz bowl, or any other academic competition clubs. The closest we have is math club which is focused on helping kids who are behind. Why should kids be punished because FCPS offers more to some schools than other?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

be happy they have math team. My kids go to an FCPS middle school that doesn't have math counts, science bowl, quiz bowl, or any other academic competition clubs. The closest we have is math club which is focused on helping kids who are behind. Why should kids be punished because FCPS offers more to some schools than other?

Sounds like something the PTA should probably pursue with the staff there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

I mean... so what??? It's not like TJ is hurting for Math Team members. Why on earth does that matter?

Commenters like this completely betray their out-of-whack priorities with regularity.

...and entitlement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why even bother going to a school like TJ? I don’t know of any students who went there and were happy. Lots of backstabbing between students in the sophomore and older years as kids try to get a leg up for college admissions. Why subject a kid to this? Life is too short.

Yeah, that was one of the big reasons they changed the admissions policy. To fix the school culture. There are some anecdotal reports that it has helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:from WAPO:

“The challenged admissions policy does not disparately impact Asian American students and that the Coalition cannot establish that the Board adopted its race-neutral policy with any discriminatory intent,” the 4th Circuit opinion, written by Judge Robert B. King, reads."

Dropping 20% seems to prove otherwise.

So if a school were to integrate, and for the first time have minority students, does that mean it's discriminatory because the number of white students dropped the next year? Of course not.

Precisely. The University of Virginia was not discriminating against male students when it began admitting female students full-time in 1970, even though the result (which was easy to anticipate and completely intentional) was that fewer spots would be available for male students.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

be happy they have math team. My kids go to an FCPS middle school that doesn't have math counts, science bowl, quiz bowl, or any other academic competition clubs. The closest we have is math club which is focused on helping kids who are behind. Why should kids be punished because FCPS offers more to some schools than other?

Sounds like something the PTA should probably pursue with the staff there.

Hopefully, you understand that PTAs at the poorest middle schools have no money. Parents at such schools have work schedules that aren’t conducive to volunteering & aren’t culturally tuned into that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
This. There were always kids at the "wrong schools" who didn't have the same parental resources or PTA support who could have thrived at TJ but were not getting in.
Also the idea that all potential is determined by the time a kid is 13 or 14 just seems short sighted and really cruel when it's talked about on these boards. "Oh my God some child got in who was only in Algebra 2 Honors in 8th grade, they're dumbing down the school and all is lost." "Those kids can't handle the pressure and will drop out" "What if the school drops to second best in the country because of them?"
I think the idea that TJ could help a passionate kid who didn't have the same opportunities reach their full potential is much more impressive than missing out on a kid who will have all the opportunities or support at Mclean or Langley.
No policy will make everyone happy or is perfect, but honestly I think these new changes could actually make TJ useful to the County beyond a press release saying they are the number one school in the country or a parent being able to brag at a cocktail party.
Signed a TJ grad from seemingly a saner time

You are talking about kids at a weaker school vs a stronger school like McLean. I am saying they are not doing a good job of selecting students within the same school. It's not even about algebra 2 vs algebra 1, but students who would be on the TJ math team are getting rejected.

be happy they have math team. My kids go to an FCPS middle school that doesn't have math counts, science bowl, quiz bowl, or any other academic competition clubs. The closest we have is math club which is focused on helping kids who are behind. Why should kids be punished because FCPS offers more to some schools than other?

Sounds like something the PTA should probably pursue with the staff there.

Hopefully, you understand that PTAs at the poorest middle schools have no money. Parents at such schools have work schedules that aren’t conducive to volunteering & aren’t culturally tuned into that.

So you want the county to provide for extra curriculars that are generally funded by parents at other schools?