All boys school...why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I went to NCS and I 100 percent agree with you. I would never send my sons to an all boys school after interacting with STA boys throughout high school. A handful of the boys were ok, but they tended to be the ones who didn't fit in well to the school overall.

You are living in the past. I have three daughters and a son much younger than his sisters . My girls told me that of all the boys they knew in high school, the STA boys were uniformly the ones to engage in the most interesting conversations and be the most polite. When our don was choosing between STA and Sidwell and we (the parents) favored a coed school, our daughters advocated for STA (which was our son’s first choice). Our son is now in upper school and I am willing to admit we were wrong and our kids were right and the education and community have been transformative for our son. He is confident to speak and defend his convictions, has made friends with a fantastic group of boys who I am sure bend the rules but for the most part are decent, supportive, hard-working and respectful, and he has been stretched academically. His class has interacted less with NCS because of Covid, but his impression is that many of the girls spout feminist ideas that they have not really thought about themselves, and they are combative in class and seem very unhappy and stressed academically. My impression is that the culture at STA is much less competitive and healthier because the boys support each other. I have not heard any recent complaints about “toxic masculinity “ towards NCS and would absolutely not tolerate it from my kid. I’m sorry your experience was not positive, but please be open to the possibility that things have changed and that STA is a fantastic place for a lot of nice boys.

quoting you "but his impression is that many of the girls spout feminist ideas that they have not really thought about themselves, and they are combative in class and seem very unhappy and stressed academically."

Combative. Feminist. Sounds like how the STA boys used to like to put down NCS girls back in the 90s!

I'll grant you stressed academically is accurate. NCS is harder than STA and the girls work much harder than their counterparts at STA.

+1. Your son’s comments are offensive. He does not seem supportive nor open minded. I hope this is not how all boys are and not what they all say.

I have kids at BVR and one at NCS… I was planning on STA for my son, but this exactly what I am afraid of. Strong, supportive sisters and a brother that is instead unsupportive and puts down the girls.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

quoting you "but his impression is that many of the girls spout feminist ideas that they have not really thought about themselves, and they are combative in class and seem very unhappy and stressed academically."

Combative. Feminist. Sounds like how the STA boys used to like to put down NCS girls back in the 90s!

I'll grant you stressed academically is accurate. NCS is harder than STA and the girls work much harder than their counterparts at STA.

Why is described by someone as feminist a put down? My son’s sisters would describe themselves that way. However, repeating traditional feminist ideas without having explored them with intellectual rigor suggests more of a “following the party line” than independent thinking.

So STA boys still look down on/ are cowered by NCS girls.

It appears that nothing has changed since the ‘80s.

I’m a feminist and mom of two STA boys. I would not say the boys are in any way cowed by NCS girls.

The cultures of the two schools are quite different. The STA boys learn early on to have respectful conversations that leave their interlocutors with dignity, respecting their basic humanity even if they disagree. You disagree with the position, you don’t disrespect the person.

The NCS girls are taught that being strong means disparaging the other person to the point of cancellation. If you disagree with a “correct” position, you should be crushed like a bug. There is no distance between the position and the person.

This is what I believe the other mom’s sons meant when they said the NCS girls are “combative.”

My children went to Beauvoir, have friends among the NCS girls, and I know and love some of the NCS girls. However, they have been growing in a different intellectual culture. NCS is decidedly dominated by more left-of-center thinking and I’d probably feel more comfortable in that parent community. I’d be surrounded by people who agree with me. The disadvantage of that environment is that it allows the girls to become mired in groupthink.

STA is more politically diverse. It also explicitly teaches respectful, considerate debate and asks the boys to learn how to take on difficult issues without disparaging one another. That is a valuable life skill and is one of the many things about STA that makes the tuition more than worthwhile to me and my husband. That’s not to say there isn’t any groupthink among members of the STA community but the boys are challenged to challenge themselves and one another - politely and with brotherhood in mind.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

quoting you "but his impression is that many of the girls spout feminist ideas that they have not really thought about themselves, and they are combative in class and seem very unhappy and stressed academically."

Combative. Feminist. Sounds like how the STA boys used to like to put down NCS girls back in the 90s!

I'll grant you stressed academically is accurate. NCS is harder than STA and the girls work much harder than their counterparts at STA.

Why is described by someone as feminist a put down? My son’s sisters would describe themselves that way. However, repeating traditional feminist ideas without having explored them with intellectual rigor suggests more of a “following the party line” than independent thinking.

So STA boys still look down on/ are cowered by NCS girls.

It appears that nothing has changed since the ‘80s.

I’m a feminist and mom of two STA boys. I would not say the boys are in any way cowed by NCS girls.

The cultures of the two schools are quite different. The STA boys learn early on to have respectful conversations that leave their interlocutors with dignity, respecting their basic humanity even if they disagree. You disagree with the position, you don’t disrespect the person.

The NCS girls are taught that being strong means disparaging the other person to the point of cancellation. If you disagree with a “correct” position, you should be crushed like a bug. There is no distance between the position and the person.

This is what I believe the other mom’s sons meant when they said the NCS girls are “combative.”

My children went to Beauvoir, have friends among the NCS girls, and I know and love some of the NCS girls. However, they have been growing in a different intellectual culture. NCS is decidedly dominated by more left-of-center thinking and I’d probably feel more comfortable in that parent community. I’d be surrounded by people who agree with me. The disadvantage of that environment is that it allows the girls to become mired in groupthink.

STA is more politically diverse. It also explicitly teaches respectful, considerate debate and asks the boys to learn how to take on difficult issues without disparaging one another. That is a valuable life skill and is one of the many things about STA that makes the tuition more than worthwhile to me and my husband. That’s not to say there isn’t any groupthink among members of the STA community but the boys are challenged to challenge themselves and one another - politely and with brotherhood in mind.

BVR, NCS (and STA hopeful) parent here. How do you know this about NCS girls? How can you claim to be a feminist and the putting down a whole community of girls? Is this what kids learn at STA? I guess it’s good that you don’t have daughters.

[Anonymous]

I went to an all boys school and am not immersed in “bro culture”.

I think the format is absolutely the best for HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

quoting you "but his impression is that many of the girls spout feminist ideas that they have not really thought about themselves, and they are combative in class and seem very unhappy and stressed academically."

Combative. Feminist. Sounds like how the STA boys used to like to put down NCS girls back in the 90s!

I'll grant you stressed academically is accurate. NCS is harder than STA and the girls work much harder than their counterparts at STA.

Why is described by someone as feminist a put down? My son’s sisters would describe themselves that way. However, repeating traditional feminist ideas without having explored them with intellectual rigor suggests more of a “following the party line” than independent thinking.

So STA boys still look down on/ are cowered by NCS girls.

It appears that nothing has changed since the ‘80s.

I’m a feminist and mom of two STA boys. I would not say the boys are in any way cowed by NCS girls.

The cultures of the two schools are quite different. The STA boys learn early on to have respectful conversations that leave their interlocutors with dignity, respecting their basic humanity even if they disagree. You disagree with the position, you don’t disrespect the person.

The NCS girls are taught that being strong means disparaging the other person to the point of cancellation. If you disagree with a “correct” position, you should be crushed like a bug. There is no distance between the position and the person.

This is what I believe the other mom’s sons meant when they said the NCS girls are “combative.”

My children went to Beauvoir, have friends among the NCS girls, and I know and love some of the NCS girls. However, they have been growing in a different intellectual culture. NCS is decidedly dominated by more left-of-center thinking and I’d probably feel more comfortable in that parent community. I’d be surrounded by people who agree with me. The disadvantage of that environment is that it allows the girls to become mired in groupthink.

STA is more politically diverse. It also explicitly teaches respectful, considerate debate and asks the boys to learn how to take on difficult issues without disparaging one another. That is a valuable life skill and is one of the many things about STA that makes the tuition more than worthwhile to me and my husband. That’s not to say there isn’t any groupthink among members of the STA community but the boys are challenged to challenge themselves and one another - politely and with brotherhood in mind.

BVR, NCS (and STA hopeful) parent here. How do you know this about NCS girls? How can you claim to be a feminist and the putting down a whole community of girls? Is this what kids learn at STA? I guess it’s good that you don’t have daughters.

My boys are friends with NCS girls. We (gasp) occasionally have them in our home and I overhear them discuss issues, debate, and this is what I’ve observed. I’d say my comments are less about the girls and more about the teaching culture at NCS.

Based on the way the girls debate, they have not been taught to do so with the same kind of consideration for their opponents/interlocutors that the boys at STA are. I’ve heard NCS girls use ad hominem and personal attacks in a way that I do not see in STA boys of the same age.

I do have a daughter. She does not attend NCS.

I will observe that you have used the same style of argument that I’ve observed in NCS girls: jumping to conclusions (assuming I don’t have a daughter), unfounded accusations confusion (how dare you attack an entire community of girls; I observed a style of argument/debate not the girls themselves), misplaced attribution (as a mom I obviously don’t attend STA so the question “Is this what kids learn at STA?” makes no sense; you’re attributing to STA and its boys an observation made by a female parent whose education could not have occurred at STA).

Thank you for so perfectly exemplifying what I was trying to convey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, if I had to choose, I would go with Gonzaga, purely because of its size. The classes are around 250 per grade, meaning your son will more easily find his people. If you stumble upon a lousy class at any of the other schools, it really sucks not having options for friends.

250 per grade really? Or is there like 400 freshmen and under 200 seniors because people that go there leave?

Umm, what makes you think this? GZ has little or no attrition.

[Anonymous]

I'm also a parent of STA/NCS high schoolers. I'm a parent to a pretty geeky kid, married to a very geeky husband. We're democrats and one of us is a fed. No male in the family is a bro.
That said, we much prefer STA to NCS. It's incredibly well run and does a great job at supporting the boys while also having high expectations. My son has never found it to be competitive. He's made friends with boys from all walks of life. The teachers are kind and give grace if the boys need grace. Their expectations are reasonable.

I'm not going to spend my time on here deriding NCS upper school but let's just say that it stands in contrast to STA in many ways. It comes a distant second.
NCS lower and middle school are much kinder and less competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All boys schools doesnt mean no interaction with girls and doesn’t mean bad behavior. Lot of stereotypes here, OP. Stop generalizing.

At an all boys school, meaning a school without girls, there is zero interaction with girls. If you want to say that everywhere but school there is interactions with girls, fine. But even that would be nuts to say. Get up in the morning, go to an all boys school, maybe go to practice after school (most likely Not a coed team) then go home after school. Unless they are going out and doing things they shouldn't be on a school night, WHERE ARE THERE GIRLS IN THAT DAY!

My son has classes with girls at the all girls school his school is associated with.

He also has a number of classes taught by excellent teachers that also happen to be women.

if he is in class with girls all day every day, I wouldn't call that an all boys school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DD goes to an all girls high school and I am a fan of single sex education. I only hung out with boys from the all boys Prep School near me (think Georgetown Prep). I was in public and the boys at my public school were all unmotivated and wanted to party or were nerds - no in between. The Prep boys were from good families and were great kids. They were all athletes (even a lacrosse player) and none of them were anything but respectful and kind to others/girls. I’m sure there were some bad apples, but I never met any of them. Toxic male behavior can be found everywhere. I think the benefits of an all boys school far outweigh any perceived negatives.

how come the best high schools in the country are overwhelmingly coed? Honest question. What do you know that they dont?

[Anonymous]

A coed school is not going to in any way replicate having a sister. I think sometimes the bro culture is a lot about impressing girls (and sometimes really egged on by girls-mean girls are no joke!) so I also don’t think that assumption is valid. I would just look for the best fit for your family, ie the parent culture you feel the most comfortable in. If you are willing to split commutes then also check which school is a great fit for each kid. In twenty years I doubt you will find it makes a big difference either way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DD goes to an all girls high school and I am a fan of single sex education. I only hung out with boys from the all boys Prep School near me (think Georgetown Prep). I was in public and the boys at my public school were all unmotivated and wanted to party or were nerds - no in between. The Prep boys were from good families and were great kids. They were all athletes (even a lacrosse player) and none of them were anything but respectful and kind to others/girls. I’m sure there were some bad apples, but I never met any of them. Toxic male behavior can be found everywhere. I think the benefits of an all boys school far outweigh any perceived negatives.

how come the best high schools in the country are overwhelmingly coed? Honest question. What do you know that they dont?

Easiest answer? Because co-ed schools are an easier business model. More students to recruit from. I went to a girls school that struggled at times to say afloat.

However, some of the best high schools in the country are single sex. Spence, Chapin, Collegiate, Regis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All boys schools doesnt mean no interaction with girls and doesn’t mean bad behavior. Lot of stereotypes here, OP. Stop generalizing.

At an all boys school, meaning a school without girls, there is zero interaction with girls. If you want to say that everywhere but school there is interactions with girls, fine. But even that would be nuts to say. Get up in the morning, go to an all boys school, maybe go to practice after school (most likely Not a coed team) then go home after school. Unless they are going out and doing things they shouldn't be on a school night, WHERE ARE THERE GIRLS IN THAT DAY!

My son has classes with girls at the all girls school his school is associated with.

He also has a number of classes taught by excellent teachers that also happen to be women.

if he is in class with girls all day every day, I wouldn't call that an all boys school.

The poster didn’t say “all day.”

However, some single sex schools have joint classes and programs with their sister schools.

STA has “coordinate” classes with NCS starting in 7th. Chinese is taught at NCS for example.

Theater, chorus, crew, and many other activities are joint.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All boys schools doesnt mean no interaction with girls and doesn’t mean bad behavior. Lot of stereotypes here, OP. Stop generalizing.

At an all boys school, meaning a school without girls, there is zero interaction with girls. If you want to say that everywhere but school there is interactions with girls, fine. But even that would be nuts to say. Get up in the morning, go to an all boys school, maybe go to practice after school (most likely Not a coed team) then go home after school. Unless they are going out and doing things they shouldn't be on a school night, WHERE ARE THERE GIRLS IN THAT DAY!

My son has classes with girls at the all girls school his school is associated with.

He also has a number of classes taught by excellent teachers that also happen to be women.

if he is in class with girls all day every day, I wouldn't call that an all boys school.

The poster didn’t say “all day.”

However, some single sex schools have joint classes and programs with their sister schools.

STA has “coordinate” classes with NCS starting in 7th. Chinese is taught at NCS for example.

Theater, chorus, crew, and many other activities are joint.

so some have some classes, others zero classes with girls. Got it. And the kids need to join choir and crew. Got it. So when they should be working to be better at crew or singing it's ok to be around girls, but not for working to get better at other things, ok. So at the end of the day, is it better to be in a single sex environment or not? If it is why have girls in crew or choir? Honest question. I say it's not better for whatever that's worth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know the all boys schools in my area lie about their graduation rates so parents think their kids are messed up if they don't want to be there. Do the all boys schools discussed here all say their graduation rates are 100%???

great question here. What are the graduation rates of these schools. Do they say 100%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think now that we are raising boys in a 'man hating' culture, particularly white men, it is more important than ever to put them in all boys schools to help with their confidence.

I've never met an unconfident white man. They are still running the world and you feel that they are the victims?