MCPS Teachers Quitting? Who is replacing them?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid has had a long term sub the entire year so far in physics.
The school has not been able to find anyone

This is going to become a huge problem.

We can’t find teachers at our school willing to take on AP classes. When everybody is already swamped and exhausted, who will agree to piling on that much more work? Strong teachers used to campaign for those classes. Not anymore.

There are currently 7 open physics positions posted. Why would anyone want to be a highly qualified STEM teacher when they can literally make twice the money with less stress in industry? There needs to be pay differentials for hard to fill positions.

Not many industry jobs include a pension that kicks in after 20 something years and guarantees half your pay for life.

We're not cops. It kicks in after 30 years working in Maryland.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get it. MCPS has a 3.2 billion dollar per annum budget. According to their own charts 90% goes to salaries, healthcare and pensions. They lost a ton of kids from their suboptimal performance in the pandemic. Granted I understand why a young teacher is getting screwed - much harder gig - and they are funding older teachers who had better parental influence- and less ghost student issues from poverty in Central America. But seriously it doesn’t add up. Add a 10% increase for the schools? Inflation - even at highest was 8 and change. This is DOD level bloat…with no Inspector General to boot! Glad I’m not funding the graft.

Central office salaries are huge.

But together they are still a tiny fraction of instructional salaries in aggregate. And you can't actually eliminate all central office staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Question: What would improve the situation?

-What is a reasonable starting salary for a 10 month job?

-What would improve the academics?

Honestly? Parenting your children better. Holding them accountable for their actions. Being stricter about manners and respecting the adults in charge of them. Limiting screens and the things they are exposed to at SUCH a young age.

It's the out of control behavior that is the #1 problem. And don't say "well if only the teacher had better control" because they are trying their absolute hardest. I'm in and out of elementary classrooms all day in my role and I see how hard they are working. Kids who are entertained by iPads from the time they get home until bedtime can't sit and focus, the attention span is so low for many kids.

And don't get me wrong, there are so many wonderful kids out there, I'm not quitting because I truly care about them, but OVERALL its behavior and parents need to step it up. It's a crisis.

I wonder if the teachers in affluent elementary schools have the same issues as those at more diverse schools?

I know all kids use screens, but I think there are other factors related to what you are describing.

My two cents:

-Starting salaries should be $65k.

-Teachers should receive loan forgiveness if they teach at a public school for 10 years.

-Teachers should receive some sort of tax credit.

-The curriculum should be overhauled. Kids should be grouped by ability and receive instruction for math and reading for the entire period (meaning kids switch classrooms, not relying on one teacher to race through groups while kids work independently). The blocks could be scaled back leaving more time to teach things like cursive, vocabulary, grammar, etc.

-Invest in workbooks or materials and assign legit homework.

-Put kids in rows instead of group tables for the bulk of the day.

-No screens at elementary school unless there is a compelling academic reason.

-Kids who are repeatedly disruptive should be sent home. I don’t care if their parents are working or not. Quickly make it an issue they need to address at home.

I'm the pp who works in ES and I agree with all of these.

I also think kids are on screens too much, but sometimes they pay attention to screens more than their teachers talking. So it's a double edged sword.

We need the pendulum to swing somehow and I'm not sure it will happen.

Read Edgar Allen Poe for the ending!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

+1
I just checked the pay scale. The top is $118K and that’s for a Masters + 60 credits after 25 years of experience. The PP above really thinks $120K is too much for a teacher with those credentials?

I think it's fine for someone who works for roughly 75% of the year and has degrees in subject areas like medieval history or fine arts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

+1
I just checked the pay scale. The top is $118K and that’s for a Masters + 60 credits after 25 years of experience. The PP above really thinks $120K is too much for a teacher with those credentials?

I think it's fine for someone who works for roughly 75% of the year and has degrees in subject areas like medieval history or fine arts.

Average 52 hours a week x 40 weeks = what many people work in 12 month positions. (I work more than 52 as a teacher most weeks.) The way I see it, I’m simply working a full year in a condensed 10 months.

It’s also clear most people disagree with you since teachers are fleeing from this profession. Why do this intense and disrespected job when I can make more working fewer hours elsewhere?

I’m leaving at the end of this year. My dept chair has already told me he’s afraid he won’t find a replacement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

+1
I just checked the pay scale. The top is $118K and that’s for a Masters + 60 credits after 25 years of experience. The PP above really thinks $120K is too much for a teacher with those credentials?

I think it's fine for someone who works for roughly 75% of the year and has degrees in subject areas like medieval history or fine arts.

Yep. And this is why qualified teachers are leaving in droves only to be replaced by any warm body that will supervise your children from hurting one another. If you're lucky.

Signed,
a school psychologist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

+1
I just checked the pay scale. The top is $118K and that’s for a Masters + 60 credits after 25 years of experience. The PP above really thinks $120K is too much for a teacher with those credentials?

I think it's fine for someone who works for roughly 75% of the year and has degrees in subject areas like medieval history or fine arts.

You are missing the point. It’s not specifically about how much any given teacher is making. It’s that many teachers for their credentials can find other jobs that are either less stress/hours for the same pay, or more pay for the same hours. Education as a whole will either need to pay more competitive salaries or accept less qualified employees. Welcome to capitalism and a tight labor market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

One might say that teaching is now for trust fund babies or those who marry well too. Why do you think the county cannot fill so many positions any more and those positions go unfilled too.

I was in one of those jobs. After child care, it didn't pay for me to work, especially given the hours and I needed to pay a babysitter to get my kids from day care as I never made it home before 7.

Exactly. There are not enough trust fund babies to fill teaching positions. It's not appropriate and not decent to pay under $70k for a job that requires a master's degree in the DMV.

My neighbor who teaches at MCPS makes 120k. I think that's not bad for someone who likely only works around 160 days a year, and with the Elrich tax increases it should be a lot more soon.

I really can't with someone who thinks $120k is too much for someone with a master's degree + additional continuing education and 25 years+ of experience. Who is responsible for children's futures. You sound really out of touch with professional salaries in this day and age.

+1
I just checked the pay scale. The top is $118K and that’s for a Masters + 60 credits after 25 years of experience. The PP above really thinks $120K is too much for a teacher with those credentials?

I think it's fine for someone who works for roughly 75% of the year and has degrees in subject areas like medieval history or fine arts.

You are missing the point. It’s not specifically about how much any given teacher is making. It’s that many teachers for their credentials can find other jobs that are either less stress/hours for the same pay, or more pay for the same hours. Education as a whole will either need to pay more competitive salaries or accept less qualified employees. Welcome to capitalism and a tight labor market.

They should do whatever they believe is best for them. Personally, I loved school, and have often wondered about that road not taken and what might've been...

[Anonymous]

It doesn't matter what arbitrary number some of you think teachers are worth. There aren't enough of them. Basic supply and demand says you have to increase the lucrativeness of the position to the point where you get enough people to fill it. Your personal beliefs don't enter it.

Pointing to the lousy salaries of social workers and nurses when we don't have enough of those either is hilarious. I mean, talk about case in point. They also need their pay increased to the point that there aren't shortages. Society has to decide how much it values these job functions and compensate accordingly, or stop whining about not having enough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It doesn't matter what arbitrary number some of you think teachers are worth. There aren't enough of them. Basic supply and demand says you have to increase the lucrativeness of the position to the point where you get enough people to fill it. Your personal beliefs don't enter it.

Pointing to the lousy salaries of social workers and nurses when we don't have enough of those either is hilarious. I mean, talk about case in point. They also need their pay increased to the point that there aren't shortages. Society has to decide how much it values these job functions and compensate accordingly, or stop whining about not having enough.

That was exactly the point. More compensation isn't going to help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of the newer younger teachers at my current school are not staying. It takes 10 years to vest in the Maryland pension. If you are not planning on staying that long it makes sense to leave teacher and start a new career. Seasoned teachers are staying until pensions kick in. I don’t hear many talk about staying longer.

Can you go to another school system in MD and combine years with MCPS for pension purposes? That would at least get you out of here.

They all suck.

-Baltimore City teacher who thinks of quitting every few weeks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:To the poster who said the starting salary should be $70k, I would be fine with that.

But I will point out that starting salaries for new lawyers fresh out of law school at Legal Aid in Montgomery County is $66k. Seems like $65k would be good for a 10 month job for a teacher fresh out of college.

You are not seriously trying to suggest that nonprofit salaries are appropriate for teachers? Those jobs are for trust fund babies and people who didn't get the message they are for trust fund babies. We need a real supply of good teachers.

Well, I’m a legal aid lawyer and I’m not a trust fund baby.

I’d love to see teachers paid more precisely so the profession attracts highly qualified people. I’d similarly like to see legal aid lawyers and social workers paid better. It’s hard work.

I don’t think a 21 or 22 year old teacher fresh out of college should earn more than a new lawyer who earned a JD or a new social worker with a MSW. Teachers are hired before they have a masters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I left last year. I’m even Nationally Board Certified and decided to call it quits. All I ever wanted to be was a teacher and I naively went into this profession thinking I’d change the world. I didn’t even mind working overtime and on weekends because this is my passion. But sadly I learned it’s not worth the low pay and constant harassment from parents, kids, and unsupportive admin. Still miss what it used to be, but the climate and system have changed and it’s become so toxic.

Yep, also NBCT and I'm done after this year. Today while restraining a child, they threatened to bite me and all I could think of was the time off I'd get if he did.

It's time to go.

Last year (and this year), I wished I could get Covid so I'd get 5 days off. I was jealous of my fellow teachers who did. Sad but true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering how well MCPS was negotiating the teacher shortage.

How many teachers are quitting at your school this year?

What are the qualifications of your student's teachers?

The same people that they replaced. People quit. New teachers are hired. It happens.

Towson University interns are at my school every year in Baltimore City. Every year, we have fewer and fewer interns. This year has been the lowest number of interns in 10+ yrs. Soon we will have mostly alternative certification teachers who basically can teach with zero experience. A recipe for disaster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was wondering how well MCPS was negotiating the teacher shortage.

How many teachers are quitting at your school this year?

What are the qualifications of your student's teachers?

The same people that they replaced. People quit. New teachers are hired. It happens.

Towson University interns are at my school every year in Baltimore City. Every year, we have fewer and fewer interns. This year has been the lowest number of interns in 10+ yrs. Soon we will have mostly alternative certification teachers who basically can teach with zero experience. A recipe for disaster.

And that’s a corporate teacher factory like teach for America