How hard will Blair's Functions class be for a kid who currently finds Algebra 2 "easy"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by the functions class. If magnet precalc is an average of 45 minutes of class and 60 minutes of HW for 270 school days, that’s 472.5 hours of math. Then if functions is 45 minutes of class and 4 hours of HW for 180 days that’s 855 hours. Why so much more time? Is there additional content? Or are 14 year olds just really inefficient at HW? Or are people exaggerating?

For starters, Functions is compacted Precalculus. It covers everything Precalculus covers (supposedly) but in two semesters instead of three semesters. The magnet precalculus class supposedly is compacted Hon. Algebra 2 and Precalculus. So Functions covers two years of honors math in one year.

DC took functions, so I don't know how much time precalculus takes for homework but functions involves a lot of proofs and is a very hard class. It probably does average 15-20 hours of homework per week to get an A for most kids. It's designed to weed out students who aren't very serious about math. Yes, 14-year-olds are inefficient at homework, especially since most have never before had to do proofs like that.

According to DC, more than half of the magnet kids are more interested in biology and chemistry than in math, physics, or computer science. Unless your child is in the latter group there is no reason to put them through the functions class.

Would regular magnet precalc cover the same material like proofs in more time?

PP poster here. When I said precalculus, I was talking about magnet. When DC took the class functions and 1st year magnet precalc had the same teacher (by design), so I think there's a good chance they have very similar content. If you want to know, that should be covered at admitted students night.

OP said their child had only taken Geometry in 8th. My DC had Alg 2 in 8th and got an easy A, and functions was very hard for them. If your child hasn't already taken Alg. 2, don't try functions. No matter how talented the child is, it will be extremely difficult for them to do well, and it could make them dislike math.

1. Couple of years ago the two courses had the exact same content. In fact the teachers used to make it a point to tell the students that there is no extra content in functions that they will not learn in magnet precalc.

2. It used to be the case that most of the kids who took functions had not already taken algebra 2. This may have changed within the last couple of years, because after metis-report initiated change in MS magnet admissions, MCPS became more flexible in allowing sixth graders to take algebra 1.

3. I am confused as to why anyone would think there is a linear (inverse?) relationship ("If magnet precalc requires 1 hour of homework every two days, shouldn't functions only take 1.5 hours of homework every two days?"). We are talking about fourteen year olds. And the course, because it is fast paced, requires more self study than they are used to. Also, the tests are shorter - for example, for the same test, if magnet precalc students got one hour, functions students would get, say, 40 or 45 minutes. The shortened tests made it imperative that the student is lot more fluent with the content. But if a student has to be that fluent, homework becomes lot more important.
So it all adds up - homework becomes a lot more important and more challenging since some self study is involved. And you slip one week, it is a lot more challenging to catch up.

4. It is absolutely not essential to do functions just for the sake of college admissions, etc. It is intended for certain types of students, and unfortunately, just because it is there, other students get sucked in too sometimes )

Why would it be strange (or even inaccurate) to assume that a 3content-in-2semesters class would have 3content-in-2days homework?

Why would Functions have artificially shortened test times for an equivalent test? That's terrible teaching.
I had college math tests that had 4 questions in 1 hour. Speed is not a virtue in advanced/deep mathematics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isnt MV a full year?

No MV is one semester in the magnet. It’s called Analysis 2A.

Is there an Analysis 2B? What does it cover?

https://mbhs.edu/departments/magnet/courses_math.php

"Multivariable Calculus and Differential Equations A/B (Magnet Analysis 2)"


There are very closely related topics, which is why HS and College teach them together. "Differential Equations" is a fancy name for "Advanced Integration".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused by the functions class. If magnet precalc is an average of 45 minutes of class and 60 minutes of HW for 270 school days, that’s 472.5 hours of math. Then if functions is 45 minutes of class and 4 hours of HW for 180 days that’s 855 hours. Why so much more time? Is there additional content? Or are 14 year olds just really inefficient at HW? Or are people exaggerating?

For starters, Functions is compacted Precalculus. It covers everything Precalculus covers (supposedly) but in two semesters instead of three semesters. The magnet precalculus class supposedly is compacted Hon. Algebra 2 and Precalculus. So Functions covers two years of honors math in one year.

DC took functions, so I don't know how much time precalculus takes for homework but functions involves a lot of proofs and is a very hard class. It probably does average 15-20 hours of homework per week to get an A for most kids. It's designed to weed out students who aren't very serious about math. Yes, 14-year-olds are inefficient at homework, especially since most have never before had to do proofs like that.

According to DC, more than half of the magnet kids are more interested in biology and chemistry than in math, physics, or computer science. Unless your child is in the latter group there is no reason to put them through the functions class.

Would regular magnet precalc cover the same material like proofs in more time?

PP poster here. When I said precalculus, I was talking about magnet. When DC took the class functions and 1st year magnet precalc had the same teacher (by design), so I think there's a good chance they have very similar content. If you want to know, that should be covered at admitted students night.

OP said their child had only taken Geometry in 8th. My DC had Alg 2 in 8th and got an easy A, and functions was very hard for them. If your child hasn't already taken Alg. 2, don't try functions. No matter how talented the child is, it will be extremely difficult for them to do well, and it could make them dislike math.

1. Couple of years ago the two courses had the exact same content. In fact the teachers used to make it a point to tell the students that there is no extra content in functions that they will not learn in magnet precalc.

2. It used to be the case that most of the kids who took functions had not already taken algebra 2. This may have changed within the last couple of years, because after metis-report initiated change in MS magnet admissions, MCPS became more flexible in allowing sixth graders to take algebra 1.

3. I am confused as to why anyone would think there is a linear (inverse?) relationship ("If magnet precalc requires 1 hour of homework every two days, shouldn't functions only take 1.5 hours of homework every two days?"). We are talking about fourteen year olds. And the course, because it is fast paced, requires more self study than they are used to. Also, the tests are shorter - for example, for the same test, if magnet precalc students got one hour, functions students would get, say, 40 or 45 minutes. The shortened tests made it imperative that the student is lot more fluent with the content. But if a student has to be that fluent, homework becomes lot more important.
So it all adds up - homework becomes a lot more important and more challenging since some self study is involved. And you slip one week, it is a lot more challenging to catch up.

4. It is absolutely not essential to do functions just for the sake of college admissions, etc. It is intended for certain types of students, and unfortunately, just because it is there, other students get sucked in too sometimes )

Why would it be strange (or even inaccurate) to assume that a 3content-in-2semesters class would have 3content-in-2days homework?

Why would Functions have artificially shortened test times for an equivalent test? That's terrible teaching.
I had college math tests that had 4 questions in 1 hour. Speed is not a virtue in advanced/deep mathematics.

THere's that but I've also always thought this is a course for those who want the hardest possible challenge. It's more than just 3 semesters in 2 homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1
makes me not want to send my child here. is that the point?

Absolutely not. Please send your kids there. It is a great place as long as you don't get into competition mode. You kids will be challenged. No need to break them. There are some really top kids - maybe 10 in the class and then there are 10 kids who you may think are not that great but end up hitting it out of the park as they start enjoying the math. You know your kid.
I know some kids who were supposed to be more advanced who may not have been that strong and ended up just hating math.

DC is not into "competition mode" and loves the magnet. We sent them because they really wanted to go there. If your child wants to go, let them. If your child doesn't want to commit to the extra commute and longer school day, they still can be successful at any MCPS school.

Yeah. And just to reiterate going to the magnet does not help and may in fact hurt with college admissions!

I always love reading the desperate posts by people trying to get others to decline in order to make room on the way list.

I know especially the ones going on about commute times. I mean my youngest child's bus to ES which only goes 0.75 miles takes close to an hour.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1
makes me not want to send my child here. is that the point?

Absolutely not. Please send your kids there. It is a great place as long as you don't get into competition mode. You kids will be challenged. No need to break them. There are some really top kids - maybe 10 in the class and then there are 10 kids who you may think are not that great but end up hitting it out of the park as they start enjoying the math. You know your kid.
I know some kids who were supposed to be more advanced who may not have been that strong and ended up just hating math.

DC is not into "competition mode" and loves the magnet. We sent them because they really wanted to go there. If your child wants to go, let them. If your child doesn't want to commit to the extra commute and longer school day, they still can be successful at any MCPS school.

Yeah. And just to reiterate going to the magnet does not help and may in fact hurt with college admissions!

I always love reading the desperate posts by people trying to get others to decline in order to make room on the way list.

I know especially the ones going on about commute times. I mean my youngest child's bus to ES which only goes 0.75 miles takes close to an hour.

My kid whose home school is Blair has to get the bus at 6:50am.

[Anonymous]

My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1
makes me not want to send my child here. is that the point?

Absolutely not. Please send your kids there. It is a great place as long as you don't get into competition mode. You kids will be challenged. No need to break them. There are some really top kids - maybe 10 in the class and then there are 10 kids who you may think are not that great but end up hitting it out of the park as they start enjoying the math. You know your kid.
I know some kids who were supposed to be more advanced who may not have been that strong and ended up just hating math.

DC is not into "competition mode" and loves the magnet. We sent them because they really wanted to go there. If your child wants to go, let them. If your child doesn't want to commit to the extra commute and longer school day, they still can be successful at any MCPS school.

Yeah. And just to reiterate going to the magnet does not help and may in fact hurt with college admissions!

I always love reading the desperate posts by people trying to get others to decline in order to make room on the way list.

I know especially the ones going on about commute times. I mean my youngest child's bus to ES which only goes 0.75 miles takes close to an hour.

My kid whose home school is Blair has to get the bus at 6:50am.

OMG that's just insane!?!?!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

Sounds about right. Most people I knew who took it had between 2-4 hours of extra work a night. It was similar to the load for all your other classes combined.

[Anonymous]

Important to know that even the "regular" magnet sequence usually requires a ton of homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

Yes, there are definitely kids who were exposed to the content ahead of time in my kid's year. It was hard. But, there are plenty in the same boat new to the stuff. Mine found that the teacher was super helpful and kid would go in at lunch sometimes. Also developed some good friends working on problem sets together. Learned to tune out the pre-exposed kids who acted like hotshots.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

Yes, there are definitely kids who were exposed to the content ahead of time in my kid's year. It was hard. But, there are plenty in the same boat new to the stuff. Mine found that the teacher was super helpful and kid would go in at lunch sometimes. Also developed some good friends working on problem sets together. Learned to tune out the pre-exposed kids who acted like hotshots.

Were any of the pre-exposed kids helpful peer tutors?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

Yes, there are definitely kids who were exposed to the content ahead of time in my kid's year. It was hard. But, there are plenty in the same boat new to the stuff. Mine found that the teacher was super helpful and kid would go in at lunch sometimes. Also developed some good friends working on problem sets together. Learned to tune out the pre-exposed kids who acted like hotshots.

Were any of the pre-exposed kids helpful peer tutors?

Don't know anything about that but my guess is that 90% of the kids in that class had either already taken Algebra 2 or had outside enrichment at RSM or AoPS. It would be very rare for anyone to be in that class cold and survive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

Yes, there are definitely kids who were exposed to the content ahead of time in my kid's year. It was hard. But, there are plenty in the same boat new to the stuff. Mine found that the teacher was super helpful and kid would go in at lunch sometimes. Also developed some good friends working on problem sets together. Learned to tune out the pre-exposed kids who acted like hotshots.

Were any of the pre-exposed kids helpful peer tutors?

PP here. Study groups and teacher were best. One kid in group had done aops, and mine asked her to peer tutor later on for Discrete which is related to math team math. She was a better teacher than the actual teacher (who was both sexist and a bad teacher).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

Yes, there are definitely kids who were exposed to the content ahead of time in my kid's year. It was hard. But, there are plenty in the same boat new to the stuff. Mine found that the teacher was super helpful and kid would go in at lunch sometimes. Also developed some good friends working on problem sets together. Learned to tune out the pre-exposed kids who acted like hotshots.

Were any of the pre-exposed kids helpful peer tutors?

PP here. Study groups and teacher were best. One kid in group had done aops, and mine asked her to peer tutor later on for Discrete which is related to math team math. She was a better teacher than the actual teacher (who was both sexist and a bad teacher).

Was that this teacher?

https://silverchips.mbhs.edu/content/rose-is-my-favorite-teacher-26512/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DS breezed through Algebra II in 8th and signed up for Functions at Blair, but ended up dropping it early in the semester. He felt that he could follow the classroom material just fine, but the homework load (3 hours/night for him) was killing him. I was so glad when he decided to drop; that level of stress isn’t good for any 14 year old. It stressed ME just to think about what would happen if he missed a week of school because of Covid or a death in the family. How would he ever catch up?

Some people in this board have posted that the homework load is more like 1-1.5 hours per night. FWIW, my DS knew a lot of the kids in his Functions class from previous classes, and he thinks that many of them had already been exposed to the material via math teams or private math schools. I’m not surprised if those kids need less time for the homework.

Yes, there are definitely kids who were exposed to the content ahead of time in my kid's year. It was hard. But, there are plenty in the same boat new to the stuff. Mine found that the teacher was super helpful and kid would go in at lunch sometimes. Also developed some good friends working on problem sets together. Learned to tune out the pre-exposed kids who acted like hotshots.

Were any of the pre-exposed kids helpful peer tutors?

PP here. Study groups and teacher were best. One kid in group had done aops, and mine asked her to peer tutor later on for Discrete which is related to math team math. She was a better teacher than the actual teacher (who was both sexist and a bad teacher).

Was that this teacher?

https://silverchips.mbhs.edu/content/rose-is-my-favorite-teacher-26512/

PP here. Maybe things were different in 2009, but there have been widespread complaints about him all through my kid's time there. Of course, there are a few who liked him. He tried hard to buddy up with some kids. But, as a teacher, he was not effective. Did not teach much and often could not explain some concepts, gearing class to students already familiar with content from math team. He was biased against girls, favored math team kids, wouldn't answer questions "yeah, I'm not gonna answer that," or would just ignore students (mostly girls). Graded vary late. Literally told students he did not grade their work because he spent all his time on social media. Asked for feedback but then would blame the student if feedback was critical at all. Other teachers couldn't help with tutoring because content was so niche, and he was unhelpful one on one. Mine relied on internet and a peer who had taken class previous year and was a math team regular and did ok. Some students really struggled because they could not get decent teaching, and for some (especially females), it was a pretty hostile environment. Things with teacher were so bad in Fall 21, a large group of students made very specific complaints to admin (O), and O was meeting with him and sitting in on class. But, I guess he's still there.