Ukraine can win; but they have to be absolute bad guy

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ukraine is getting the $$$$ - at the top- and American tax payer play da fool.

I don't like the US getting entangled in foreign wars. But time and time again we have sent our money to overseas locations - Iraq ring a bell? - because reasons. We feel we have strategic reasons for wanting to (fill in the blank). I think Putin wants to re establish the former USSR and apparently, our analysts don't think that would be a good idea. I hate that it costs us money but don't you think it's probably a good idea for us to NOT give Putin whatever he wants on a silver platter? What would you just shrug as he invades a sovereign country? What if he turns on another one next? He's killing innocent civilians, you think we should just shrug?

Without costing a US military life, the US and the world has managed to bring the Russians to their knees. Why is this bad? Don't we want to stop the bullies?

Thank you for confirming you only count the American dead, everyone else is just noise.

??? Russia is one who can stop all of this killing.

If Russia stopped fighting, the Ukraine would go right back to shelling civilians in the Donbas, like they did from 14-22.

You mean after Russia sent in it's little green men and declared the region independent?

You mean after the lawful government was overthrown in a coup? People are just supposed to be ok with that and not object?

Wrong. You realize you are repeating Kremlin propaganda and perpetuating a lie, right?

Propaganda in this war is going both ways, and censorship around Ukraine in MSM is strong. In fact, there are things you are simply no longer allowed to say about Ukraine that you were allowed to, as recently as in 2014.

For instance, these Guardian articles would have never been allowed to run today:

Well for one thing the current leader of Ukraine’s “regime” is Jewish. Not a neo-nazi.

So it is your contention, is it not, that with Zelensky's ascent to power all neo-Nazi elements (that the Western commentators freely acknowledged in 2014) have vanished?

Or is it your contention that neo-Nazi elements simply cannot coexist with a Jewish president?

It’s my contention that there are neo-Nazi elements everywhere unfortunately including in the US and Russia where they might go by a different name.

It’s also my contention that Ukraine 20th century history is filled with bloodshed, death, and destruction, brought about primarily by anti-democratic authoritarian thugs who ran either Russia/USSR or Germany. The Jews of Ukraine Galicia/Lithuania/Latvia/Poland/Russia, etc were especially hit hard by non-Jews from all sorts of ethnic groups some of whose descendants are still filled with raging anti-Semitism. Yes also in Russia. Why do you think so many Russian and Soviet Jews left in the 1970’s, 1980’s and 1900’s?

Bloodlands is an illuminating, heartbreaking book. I suggest you read it.

Snyder is a propagandist.

Everyone able to leave Russia in the 1970s and 1980s has left, not just the Jews. It's just that the Jews could use the door nobody else could.

It is quite charming you mention the Jews of Ukraine and the Baltics "hit especially hard" by non-Jews, really, what you mean is "locals". Has Ukraine ever addressed the history of its extensive collaboration with the Nazis? Have the Baltics? Especially the Baltics? The only countries in Europe where SS veterans still march in celebration parades? The Baltics that suppress and censor local authors who want to acknowledge what happened? The Baltics that squashed the memorial exhibit of the Salaspils concentration camp FOR CHILDREN in the UN on the pretense that it paints the country in a bad light? Damn right it does but does that mean it shouldn't be acknowledged? So, don't talk about the thugs who ran the USSR, the antisemitism in Ukraine and the Baltics is very very native.

Ukrainians fought the Soviets with Germans because the Soviets had starved them to death on the previous decade.

This whole anti semitism thing is partly pearl clutching.

And then they realized the Germans were just as bad as the Soviets. Also starved them and looted their country. True facts! They got hit from both sides. And from within. What a tragic century. And now more tragedy.

Just read an article about Russia’s recent plundering of Ukrainian treasures. Plus ca change.

40% of the Soviet Red Army fighting against the Germans were Ukrainians.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Has Russia ever addressed its history of anti-semitism, the Gulags, the Holodomor?

Beautiful sleight of hand - you call them Russians when you want to, and Soviets when you want to. Blame Georgia for Stalin, why don’t you LOL.

How about Russian Soviets? Or Soviet Russians, does that work? At any rate where are the monuments and apologies for the Gulag, pogroms, and Holodomor?

Pogroms are the Ukrainian thing. Gulags they did to themselves. The famine, eh, get in line after the Kazakhs, you don’t get to brand a joint tragedy.

The Jews of Nizhnii Novograd would like to have a word with you.

Where is this mysterious legendary placed called Nizhnii NOVOGRAD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who is the apologist for murderous Russian actions on here?

This is not WWIi. This is Russia invading a country and committing a shocking number of gruesome war crimes against civilians including children, as well as targeting cultural artifacts and heritage for theft and destruction. All because its psychopath dictator former KGB agent insanely thinks he can restore the Soviet “glory” that never was.

You say "KGB agent" like it's something disqualifying. You had a CIA director running the freaking country and no one said pip squeak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Russia is slowly realizing that they exist because the west allows them to.

The west is focused on the real war to come with China.

Russia is just another Iran with better alcohol.

There’s no reason for war with China. They aren’t planning to invade the US. Please stop Sabre rattling.

Last time I checked Taiwan was the land of the rejects of China. Taiwan was its own outcast island that America helped out; became phenomenally successful and now China wants its outcasts and their technology back.

There is a thing called a friend in this world; and America has been a solid friend to Taiwan- in bad times and good.

If Taiwan wants America to back it up against the country that rejected them seems like the right thing to do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Ukraine is getting the $$$$ - at the top- and American tax payer play da fool.

I don't like the US getting entangled in foreign wars. But time and time again we have sent our money to overseas locations - Iraq ring a bell? - because reasons. We feel we have strategic reasons for wanting to (fill in the blank). I think Putin wants to re establish the former USSR and apparently, our analysts don't think that would be a good idea. I hate that it costs us money but don't you think it's probably a good idea for us to NOT give Putin whatever he wants on a silver platter? What would you just shrug as he invades a sovereign country? What if he turns on another one next? He's killing innocent civilians, you think we should just shrug?

Without costing a US military life, the US and the world has managed to bring the Russians to their knees. Why is this bad? Don't we want to stop the bullies?

Thank you for confirming you only count the American dead, everyone else is just noise.

??? Russia is one who can stop all of this killing.

If Russia stopped fighting, the Ukraine would go right back to shelling civilians in the Donbas, like they did from 14-22.

You mean after Russia sent in it's little green men and declared the region independent?

You mean after the lawful government was overthrown in a coup? People are just supposed to be ok with that and not object?

Wrong. You realize you are repeating Kremlin propaganda and perpetuating a lie, right?

Propaganda in this war is going both ways, and censorship around Ukraine in MSM is strong. In fact, there are things you are simply no longer allowed to say about Ukraine that you were allowed to, as recently as in 2014.

For instance, these Guardian articles would have never been allowed to run today:

Well for one thing the current leader of Ukraine’s “regime” is Jewish. Not a neo-nazi.

So it is your contention, is it not, that with Zelensky's ascent to power all neo-Nazi elements (that the Western commentators freely acknowledged in 2014) have vanished?

Or is it your contention that neo-Nazi elements simply cannot coexist with a Jewish president?

It’s my contention that there are neo-Nazi elements everywhere unfortunately including in the US and Russia where they might go by a different name.

It’s also my contention that Ukraine 20th century history is filled with bloodshed, death, and destruction, brought about primarily by anti-democratic authoritarian thugs who ran either Russia/USSR or Germany. The Jews of Ukraine Galicia/Lithuania/Latvia/Poland/Russia, etc were especially hit hard by non-Jews from all sorts of ethnic groups some of whose descendants are still filled with raging anti-Semitism. Yes also in Russia. Why do you think so many Russian and Soviet Jews left in the 1970’s, 1980’s and 1900’s?

Bloodlands is an illuminating, heartbreaking book. I suggest you read it.

Snyder is a propagandist.

Everyone able to leave Russia in the 1970s and 1980s has left, not just the Jews. It's just that the Jews could use the door nobody else could.

It is quite charming you mention the Jews of Ukraine and the Baltics "hit especially hard" by non-Jews, really, what you mean is "locals". Has Ukraine ever addressed the history of its extensive collaboration with the Nazis? Have the Baltics? Especially the Baltics? The only countries in Europe where SS veterans still march in celebration parades? The Baltics that suppress and censor local authors who want to acknowledge what happened? The Baltics that squashed the memorial exhibit of the Salaspils concentration camp FOR CHILDREN in the UN on the pretense that it paints the country in a bad light? Damn right it does but does that mean it shouldn't be acknowledged? So, don't talk about the thugs who ran the USSR, the antisemitism in Ukraine and the Baltics is very very native.

Ukrainians fought the Soviets with Germans because the Soviets had starved them to death on the previous decade.

This whole anti semitism thing is partly pearl clutching.

And then they realized the Germans were just as bad as the Soviets. Also starved them and looted their country. True facts! They got hit from both sides. And from within. What a tragic century. And now more tragedy.

Just read an article about Russia’s recent plundering of Ukrainian treasures. Plus ca change.

40% of the Soviet Red Army fighting against the Germans were Ukrainians.

This ain’t WWII bud.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the apologist for murderous Russian actions on here?

This is not WWIi. This is Russia invading a country and committing a shocking number of gruesome war crimes against civilians including children, as well as targeting cultural artifacts and heritage for theft and destruction. All because its psychopath dictator former KGB agent insanely thinks he can restore the Soviet “glory” that never was.

You say "KGB agent" like it's something disqualifying. You had a CIA director running the freaking country and no one said pip squeak.

Look at you ignoring the plunder and rape and murder sanctioned by your boy Putin. Because you can’t defend it.

[Anonymous]

DP. A couple of points.

Russian history is difficult to use in effective propaganda, so Russians use WWII like a safety blanket. It's comforting propaganda for them, since it's the last time the Soviets did anything remotely "righteous". Same way the "Nazi" label works because SVR likely recruits ultra-right nationalists. Russian's can't say much before WWII, because Stalin's ethnic purges and holodomor would work against annexation of Crimea, invasion of Ukraine, etc.

I think Putin is just using soldiers to grind as sausage to deflect physical military opposition at home. Population is plummeting, and it's just a matter of time before Russia disintegrates into smaller chunks (they won't be able to hold current territory without population increases).

Someone should have gifted Putin a copy of Civilization IV with a sticky that says "Cultural Victory - it's a thing."

[Anonymous]

The world will be better off with Stalin erased from the earth. Russia is last archeological artifact of the USSR.

Their demise without nuclear weapons would be a gift to the planet. Give Ukraine what they need to promote Russian demise.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Invading Russia doesn’t usually end well for the invading force. Plus Ukraine doesn’t *want* more Russians in its borders.

Ukraine’s best bet is to keep bleeding Russia for another season and then negotiate a cease fire under the best terms possible, likely surrendering Crimea and parts of Eastern Ukraine.

That is the easy way out that Russia would jump at in a heartbeat. But Russia is about to lose; just how much is up to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP. A couple of points.

Russian history is difficult to use in effective propaganda, so Russians use WWII like a safety blanket. It's comforting propaganda for them, since it's the last time the Soviets did anything remotely "righteous". Same way the "Nazi" label works because SVR likely recruits ultra-right nationalists. Russian's can't say much before WWII, because Stalin's ethnic purges and holodomor would work against annexation of Crimea, invasion of Ukraine, etc.

I think Putin is just using soldiers to grind as sausage to deflect physical military opposition at home. Population is plummeting, and it's just a matter of time before Russia disintegrates into smaller chunks (they won't be able to hold current territory without population increases).

Someone should have gifted Putin a copy of Civilization IV with a sticky that says "Cultural Victory - it's a thing."

A wet dream of the 80s and 90s' "Sovietologists".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is the apologist for murderous Russian actions on here?

This is not WWIi. This is Russia invading a country and committing a shocking number of gruesome war crimes against civilians including children, as well as targeting cultural artifacts and heritage for theft and destruction. All because its psychopath dictator former KGB agent insanely thinks he can restore the Soviet “glory” that never was.

You say "KGB agent" like it's something disqualifying. You had a CIA director running the freaking country and no one said pip squeak.

Look at you ignoring the plunder and rape and murder sanctioned by your boy Putin. Because you can’t defend it.

I don't have any boys but I can still make fun of you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really don’t understand why it would be wrong for Ukraine to bomb Russia. How would that be the fault of Ukraine? Start a war, you might get bombed. Duh.

The problem is that it seems like the powerful ones are beginning to think like that, too. I get what you are saying, I just can’t get too excited about civilians being bombed, no matter what country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is the only assumption that Russia must be invaded and bombed into oblivion in order to end the war? Isn't drawing back bloody stumps enough? It was enough to end their Afghan war.

Gorbie was very different from Putin

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is an easy win-win here, and that is let the Russian populated parts go to Russia. Then they can have a clean break from Russia and go their own way. They will never be able to effectively govern these parts anyway.

There is only one problem - the Ukrainians don’t agree (hence no peace talks or ceasefire).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP. A couple of points.

Russian history is difficult to use in effective propaganda, so Russians use WWII like a safety blanket. It's comforting propaganda for them, since it's the last time the Soviets did anything remotely "righteous". Same way the "Nazi" label works because SVR likely recruits ultra-right nationalists. Russian's can't say much before WWII, because Stalin's ethnic purges and holodomor would work against annexation of Crimea, invasion of Ukraine, etc.

I think Putin is just using soldiers to grind as sausage to deflect physical military opposition at home. Population is plummeting, and it's just a matter of time before Russia disintegrates into smaller chunks (they won't be able to hold current territory without population increases).

Someone should have gifted Putin a copy of Civilization IV with a sticky that says "Cultural Victory - it's a thing."

They have all of this culture around WWII and "WE fought the Nazis" when in fact millions of the Soviet troops that fought the Nazis and pushed all the way to Berlin where they drove Hitler to hide in a bunker and eat a bullet were in fact UKRAINIANS. Which makes it completely sick that they've now reinvented the Ukrainians to be the Nazis. Especially when their own home grown Russians keep being found adorned with Nazi symbols.