So despite higher achievement, which is the only tangible evidence you have , you’re comfortable calling them dumber. Ok. |
Fellow prof +1000. |
The SAT (to give just one example) has been re-scaled multiple times. What would have produced a score of X in the 1990s now produces a score of X + Y, with Y being a not small number. If you Google re-scaling you should find out more. AP exam content and standards get rewritten every few years. You can look back at past curriculum guides to see how things have changed. |
Usually? Seriously? Our family is mixed international/US and we know tons of international kids who attend US universities. There are a few who are mega wealthy, but most are run of the mill well-off. The most sheltered kids absolutely do not leave their home countries to come to the US. They might go to the UK, but rarely go as far as the US, mostly because they are so sheltered.
Even the most sheltered international kids at US schools are generally better traveled and more knowledgeable about different cultures than the American kids. In addition, there are tons of wealthy American kids with live in help, drivers, etc.
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+1 Above is why. |
I have tangible evidence every day at work that the current undergraduate population is _less_prepared_. I don't learn anything about the HS stats even of the students who are majors in my program. I don't hear about their GPAs or their APs, and every year I have to tell them to take their HS extracurriculars off their resumes. All I know is that they cannot do a whole basket of things as well as students could 20 years ago: absorb written material, identify important concepts, and redeploy them in arguments; memorize key details that are too fundamental and important to be left aside for notes or Google; plan ahead for complex or long-term projects; strike out on their own to find potentially appropriate research materials; write in an organized and compelling way, with minimal errors; and assume with humility and maturity the consequences of their own choices. This is not just a pandemic thing, and those who think high stats are a sign of great college preparation might want to make sure that their students are ready in these other ways, too. Because I can't see your SAT score: all I know is that I have to show you how to mine your textbook properly for high-priority information or constantly tell you to provide evidence in your papers. Yes, I'm paid to do that, but you'd get much more out of our time together (and your tuition dollars) if you could already do that and I could teach you how to participate in the wider world of our discipline. --College prof |
Not a college prof, but I'm seeing this. How does a kid learn this when the school hasn't taught it? Is it time to call a tutor? |
You cannot get a student visa without proving that you have at least $10k in cash on hand. You aren’t eligible for any federal loans. Live-in help is very uncommon in the U.S. I would rather see more rural American kids at elite schools. |
Race correlates with wealth, too, so we are saying the same thing. |
Test scores add to the predictive power of gpa, even when controlling for ethnicity and wealth. |
The SAT has racist origins (i.e. Eugenics). Look at the history of standardized testing n the U.S. |
This is interesting, because last year several “profs” on this board claimed they could see all of that (SAT, GPA, etc. — they used it to justify some argument). Regardless, I think your viewpoint is the general trend across the country; however, I do believe in this region, this alleged dumbing down is not the case. Maybe I’m biased because we live in a good school district, but my kids, and their friends are waaaay more intelligent and capable that I ever was at their age. They are better writers, they get conceptual math, they know their science and history, they can make valid arguments, etc. |
I have tangible evidence every day at work that the current undergraduate population is _less_prepared_. I don't learn anything about the HS stats even of the students who are majors in my program. I don't hear about their GPAs or their APs, and every year I have to tell them to take their HS extracurriculars off their resumes. All I know is that they cannot do a whole basket of things as well as students could 20 years ago: absorb written material, identify important concepts, and redeploy them in arguments; memorize key details that are too fundamental and important to be left aside for notes or Google; plan ahead for complex or long-term projects; strike out on their own to find potentially appropriate research materials; write in an organized and compelling way, with minimal errors; and assume with humility and maturity the consequences of their own choices. This is not just a pandemic thing, and those who think high stats are a sign of great college preparation might want to make sure that their students are ready in these other ways, too. Because I can't see your SAT score: all I know is that I have to show you how to mine your textbook properly for high-priority information or constantly tell you to provide evidence in your papers. Yes, I'm paid to do that, but you'd get much more out of our time together (and your tuition dollars) if you could already do that and I could teach you how to participate in the wider world of our discipline. --College prof This is interesting, because last year several “profs” on this board claimed they could see all of that (SAT, GPA, etc. — they used it to justify some argument). Regardless, I think your viewpoint is the general trend across the country; however, I do believe in this region, this alleged dumbing down is not the case. Maybe I’m biased because we live in a good school district, but my kids, and their friends are waaaay more intelligent and capable that I ever was at their age. They are better writers, they get conceptual math, they know their science and history, they can make valid arguments, etc. I, too, teach at a university, one that enrolls students who are amongst the best prepared high school students in their cohort (i.e. many students from privileged backgrounds). I second what college prof (whom I've quoted above) has said and would add that my students also have a lot of difficulty following basic instructions. |
^^^Jerk alert |
If you ever see this comment: I hope you start a separate thread focusing on this topic. |