Talk me off a ledge- other side of the world and just discovered cheating

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Op, from your DH’s perspective, this has been eating him alive for three years and he doesn’t know how to fix it. He is addicted to the affair hormones (like any addict), AND he loves you. Discovery will force his hand, and he will have to decide whether he’s able to cut this off or not. His initial reaction gives me hope. I am rooting for your family in the long term. In the short term, you need to do whatever you need to do, and that could include asking him to temporarily move out. That’s probably what I’d do.

The bold:


While it's true that some cheaters get a rush from the sex and the deception and the adventure of it all, this is not "like any addict." It's maybe a mental illness for some. But no it's not like being an alcoholic or drug addict. Sometimes alcoholics or drug addicts cheat and it's a component of their substance abuse and addiction, but a straight-up cheater? "Addicted to the affair hormones"? Smells like an excuse, to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really believe he hasn't met up with her somewhere in three years. that sounds like BS. Anyhow, a three year long emotional affair is pretty bad too.

+1

Even if there truly was no further sex after one time (hard to believe), this PP is right. Emotional affairs are a real thing, and intensely damaging. He's been spending thousands of hours communicating with this woman rather than spending them with his wife and children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, from your DH’s perspective, this has been eating him alive for three years and he doesn’t know how to fix it. He is addicted to the affair hormones (like any addict), AND he loves you. Discovery will force his hand, and he will have to decide whether he’s able to cut this off or not. His initial reaction gives me hope. I am rooting for your family in the long term. In the short term, you need to do whatever you need to do, and that could include asking him to temporarily move out. That’s probably what I’d do.

The bold:


While it's true that some cheaters get a rush from the sex and the deception and the adventure of it all, this is not "like any addict." It's maybe a mental illness for some. But no it's not like being an alcoholic or drug addict. Sometimes alcoholics or drug addicts cheat and it's a component of their substance abuse and addiction, but a straight-up cheater? "Addicted to the affair hormones"? Smells like an excuse, to me.

An excuse for what? Some cheaters do feel absolutely awful and want to change, but can’t.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5378292/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, from your DH’s perspective, this has been eating him alive for three years and he doesn’t know how to fix it. He is addicted to the affair hormones (like any addict), AND he loves you. Discovery will force his hand, and he will have to decide whether he’s able to cut this off or not. His initial reaction gives me hope. I am rooting for your family in the long term. In the short term, you need to do whatever you need to do, and that could include asking him to temporarily move out. That’s probably what I’d do.

The bold:


While it's true that some cheaters get a rush from the sex and the deception and the adventure of it all, this is not "like any addict." It's maybe a mental illness for some. But no it's not like being an alcoholic or drug addict. Sometimes alcoholics or drug addicts cheat and it's a component of their substance abuse and addiction, but a straight-up cheater? "Addicted to the affair hormones"? Smells like an excuse, to me.

An excuse for what? Some cheaters do feel absolutely awful and want to change, but can’t.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5378292/

He may feel bad. I don’t need to be married to him. He can work that out for himself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, from your DH’s perspective, this has been eating him alive for three years and he doesn’t know how to fix it. He is addicted to the affair hormones (like any addict), AND he loves you. Discovery will force his hand, and he will have to decide whether he’s able to cut this off or not. His initial reaction gives me hope. I am rooting for your family in the long term. In the short term, you need to do whatever you need to do, and that could include asking him to temporarily move out. That’s probably what I’d do.

The bold:


While it's true that some cheaters get a rush from the sex and the deception and the adventure of it all, this is not "like any addict." It's maybe a mental illness for some. But no it's not like being an alcoholic or drug addict. Sometimes alcoholics or drug addicts cheat and it's a component of their substance abuse and addiction, but a straight-up cheater? "Addicted to the affair hormones"? Smells like an excuse, to me.

An excuse for what? Some cheaters do feel absolutely awful and want to change, but can’t.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5378292/

He may feel bad. I don’t need to be married to him. He can work that out for himself.

Totally agree. I’m the PP. I didn’t say that his feeling bad excuses it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn't call it a 3 year long affair. It was a fling that lasted a weekend if that followed by texting/sexting.

Ask him to stop texting her and move on. Tell your parents that you both have food poisoning and were up all night.

You can always decide later to make more permanent decisions but I wouldn't do it now.

+1 - and I'll add that I don't think you should tell your mom. Not at this point. Not to shield your husband but to give yourself all the opportunities you want when you get home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been exactly where you are. For me it was October 2019 while we were in another city, discovered text, and dh had been seeing her off and on for 3 years (work colleague in another city). It was the most devastating experience of my life. Married 22 yesrs at the time, three kids.

A few thoughts

(1) I would only tell a girlfriend and not family in initial shock. Otherwise you are dealing with their shock too.
(2)I would tell him you both will deal with this when home and just muscle through. It is the worst thing ever. But you can do it.
(3) I would not let kids know until you know what you are doing and that may take months/ years.
(4) I would make an immediate appt for STD testing and not have sex until you do.
(5) I would believe him if he says he will do anything to make it back to you but also know You do not know yet if he has it in him to do this.
(6) I would assume he is NOT telling you the truth yet. ny husband was determined to make it back to me and truth still took months.
(7) he must commit to full transparency.
(8) He must end it immediately and no contact with her again ever. She is by definition also a horrible person and should not be newr your marriage,
(9) I am glad I told 3-5 friends as they were amazing, I also am glad I did not tell my family as they would not have ever been able to deal with him.
(10) eat, drink, sleep if you can
(11) tell him he ran you over witg a truck and it is his jobbto take care if you 100%
(12) make sure you get inti GOOD therapy — couples and individual, the person has to be trained correctly. He has a lot of individual work to figure out he could lie and cheat on the person he loves and why. My husband had to deal with his depression and childhood issues,
(13) Know that you are going tohave PTSD for a while
(14) Know that it takes 3-5 years ti recover minimum. So realize it is going to be hard for a while if you choose to work it out,
(15) Do not believe people who say it cannot work. Many cheaters do change but they have to change themselves.

So sorry — hugs and hugs,

I also think this is very good advice. No personal experience but support a very dear friend through a similar situation. They are still married and as far as I know (we talk probably daily or every other day and are pretty open) it is going very well years later. But it was a painful couple years, and she admits is still painful at times of course. Her husband was in a deep dark place and he had to work to come out of it, and he has. But woof. I also recommend thinking very carefully about who you tell and talk to. It sounds like SIL might be a reasonable option. In an ideal circumstance ONE friend might be good. What everyone says about telling too many people is really true, I know it sounds like divorce may be the best option for you, in case you decide the other way it is realllly hard for other people and makes it way harder on you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you in the country she lives in or near or on this trip?

Nope 9 hour time difference

New poster.

OP, if I read your initial post right, you have only two days left on this trip before coming home, is that correct? You mention "two more days left." You also note above you're nine hours from home, so, some very long flights especially with kids.

I'm here just to say: With two, now one?, days left, intense emotion running high, and kids to get onto flights and keep contented on flights -- Today, right now, focus solely on getting through each successive hour until you are in your own home. I am NOT saying ignore what you know! I am saying that trying to start processing such a horror (and yes, it's a horror) while this far from home, with kids depending on you to get them back home, with your parents there who might go nuts on your behalf, etc. -- I would focus hard on putting one foot in front of the other hour by hour and getting home.

Someone said to tell your DH to leave immediately and go home himself with excuses about a sick parent or whatever but if he does that, he has to explain that lie later to others; your kids will wonder, maybe even be upset, that dad vanished on them when they're already out of their routines on travel, etc.

Instead, I'd tell DH as coldly and clearly as you can:
"We are on the other side of the world from home. We are due home in X hours.
--From this point until we walk in the door of our own house, you will stop your crying and explaining,
--I will have your phone in MY pocket at all times. If you need to text someone about actual work, you can dictate your text to me and I will type it.
--I will refrain for now, and for now only, from sharing this with my mother or anyone else. Not because I'm giving you any break but because we need to get through the hours until we are home. I will need support of my own to think through this huge betrayal and you don't get to choose what that support looks like, once we're home.
--The minute we are home, I will make an appointment for us both to get STI testing immediately, the next day if possible, a full panel. I'll be driving with you to your testing appointment. If you resist or balk I will take that as admission you suspect you could have an STI, so it's not something up for discussion.
--The second minute we are home, you and I will be busy settling the kids, but as soon as they are asleep that night, we will talk about next steps. I do not believe that you have gone three years without having sex with this woman, based on the intensity of your sexting, and on the fact you travel for work. I have already taken and sent myself screen shots of your texts so I never doubt myself about what I saw.
--Do not interpret my calmness over these next few days of our trip as my being OK with anything. At all. Ever. Even if you were "only" sexting, that is an emotional affair and still an affair. I also can't believe you were only sexting.

Yes, it's a list of orders. Because he does not deserve to be asked, only told.

Yeah, no. You can't control anyone else, you can only control yourself. He's not your prisoner.

For the next few days, while they are on the other side of the world and she has had a nuclear bomb dropped on her?

Yes, he is her prisoner. She sure as f**k can and should "control" his phone for the very few hours left in their trip. If he's not a complete fool, he'll see that, since he's already sobbing and begging, if he wants to make that act convincing, he'll hand over his phone for now. And she should take it and turn it all the way off and leave it that way. The other woman will be texting him and lose her mind that he's not texting her back. Plus: He and the OW won't be as easily able to cook up a tale about how it's "only" sexting. He will sweat. He should sweat. Sure, he'll get it back. But until they're home in the US in two days? Nope, not until then.

Yes, she gets to issue some ultimatums right now. Sorry if you think "you can't control anyone else." In the end you can't. But you missed that the entire post above yours is about the next few days only, and OP getting through each successive HOUR untll they are home. In her shoes I'd tell him if he doesn't hand over his phone (and any other means of communication with the OW like a tablet or whatever), she will take that as his admitting he will not stop texting the woman and wants to divorce OP. He, not OP, blew up this marriage; he can grovel and keep his mouth and his texting fingers to himself for two effing days while they end this trip, try to keep from imploding in front of the kids, and OP gets calm time to think.

Nope, he's not. She can ask him to do things, and she can do anything herself, but if anyone told me to give up my phone for any reason, I'd be the one walking out. And I'm a woman.

[Anonymous]

Your DH has to not only tell you that he wants to work on the marriage, but he has to actually do it. You can't be the one doing the work to fix this. He has to do the work. He blew it up, he needs to be the one to glue all the pieces back together.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you in the country she lives in or near or on this trip?

Nope 9 hour time difference

New poster.

OP, if I read your initial post right, you have only two days left on this trip before coming home, is that correct? You mention "two more days left." You also note above you're nine hours from home, so, some very long flights especially with kids.

I'm here just to say: With two, now one?, days left, intense emotion running high, and kids to get onto flights and keep contented on flights -- Today, right now, focus solely on getting through each successive hour until you are in your own home. I am NOT saying ignore what you know! I am saying that trying to start processing such a horror (and yes, it's a horror) while this far from home, with kids depending on you to get them back home, with your parents there who might go nuts on your behalf, etc. -- I would focus hard on putting one foot in front of the other hour by hour and getting home.

Someone said to tell your DH to leave immediately and go home himself with excuses about a sick parent or whatever but if he does that, he has to explain that lie later to others; your kids will wonder, maybe even be upset, that dad vanished on them when they're already out of their routines on travel, etc.

Instead, I'd tell DH as coldly and clearly as you can:
"We are on the other side of the world from home. We are due home in X hours.
--From this point until we walk in the door of our own house, you will stop your crying and explaining,
--I will have your phone in MY pocket at all times. If you need to text someone about actual work, you can dictate your text to me and I will type it.
--I will refrain for now, and for now only, from sharing this with my mother or anyone else. Not because I'm giving you any break but because we need to get through the hours until we are home. I will need support of my own to think through this huge betrayal and you don't get to choose what that support looks like, once we're home.
--The minute we are home, I will make an appointment for us both to get STI testing immediately, the next day if possible, a full panel. I'll be driving with you to your testing appointment. If you resist or balk I will take that as admission you suspect you could have an STI, so it's not something up for discussion.
--The second minute we are home, you and I will be busy settling the kids, but as soon as they are asleep that night, we will talk about next steps. I do not believe that you have gone three years without having sex with this woman, based on the intensity of your sexting, and on the fact you travel for work. I have already taken and sent myself screen shots of your texts so I never doubt myself about what I saw.
--Do not interpret my calmness over these next few days of our trip as my being OK with anything. At all. Ever. Even if you were "only" sexting, that is an emotional affair and still an affair. I also can't believe you were only sexting.

Yes, it's a list of orders. Because he does not deserve to be asked, only told.

Yeah, no. You can't control anyone else, you can only control yourself. He's not your prisoner.

For the next few days, while they are on the other side of the world and she has had a nuclear bomb dropped on her?

Yes, he is her prisoner. She sure as f**k can and should "control" his phone for the very few hours left in their trip. If he's not a complete fool, he'll see that, since he's already sobbing and begging, if he wants to make that act convincing, he'll hand over his phone for now. And she should take it and turn it all the way off and leave it that way. The other woman will be texting him and lose her mind that he's not texting her back. Plus: He and the OW won't be as easily able to cook up a tale about how it's "only" sexting. He will sweat. He should sweat. Sure, he'll get it back. But until they're home in the US in two days? Nope, not until then.

Yes, she gets to issue some ultimatums right now. Sorry if you think "you can't control anyone else." In the end you can't. But you missed that the entire post above yours is about the next few days only, and OP getting through each successive HOUR untll they are home. In her shoes I'd tell him if he doesn't hand over his phone (and any other means of communication with the OW like a tablet or whatever), she will take that as his admitting he will not stop texting the woman and wants to divorce OP. He, not OP, blew up this marriage; he can grovel and keep his mouth and his texting fingers to himself for two effing days while they end this trip, try to keep from imploding in front of the kids, and OP gets calm time to think.

Nope, he's not. She can ask him to do things, and she can do anything herself, but if anyone told me to give up my phone for any reason, I'd be the one walking out. And I'm a woman.

Don't let the door hit your *ss on the way out. And I'm a woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Do you really believe he hasn't met up with her somewhere in three years. that sounds like BS. Anyhow, a three year long emotional affair is pretty bad too.

Who knows? Potential ways to find out:
Review detailed phone records, credit card statements, bank records, Amazon orders, travel records, emails regarding travels, emails regarding purchases, etc.

To those who find out anything like this in the future (I hope you don't, but if you do): Wait as long as possible to confront spouse with what you know in order to continue to discover whatever else you can discover. Once the spouse knows you know, evidence tends to disappear, passwords change, etc. In this case, if OP hadn't have confronted spouse, OP may have been able to determine other possible meetup dates by reaching out to the OW as if the OP was the spouse. Not blaming OP for acting, as it's difficult to refrain from not confronting spouse when first uncovered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have been exactly where you are. For me it was October 2019 while we were in another city, discovered text, and dh had been seeing her off and on for 3 years (work colleague in another city). It was the most devastating experience of my life. Married 22 yesrs at the time, three kids.

A few thoughts

(1) I would only tell a girlfriend and not family in initial shock. Otherwise you are dealing with their shock too.
(2)I would tell him you both will deal with this when home and just muscle through. It is the worst thing ever. But you can do it.
(3) I would not let kids know until you know what you are doing and that may take months/ years.
(4) I would make an immediate appt for STD testing and not have sex until you do.
(5) I would believe him if he says he will do anything to make it back to you but also know You do not know yet if he has it in him to do this.
(6) I would assume he is NOT telling you the truth yet. ny husband was determined to make it back to me and truth still took months.
(7) he must commit to full transparency.
(8) He must end it immediately and no contact with her again ever. She is by definition also a horrible person and should not be newr your marriage,
(9) I am glad I told 3-5 friends as they were amazing, I also am glad I did not tell my family as they would not have ever been able to deal with him.
(10) eat, drink, sleep if you can
(11) tell him he ran you over witg a truck and it is his jobbto take care if you 100%
(12) make sure you get inti GOOD therapy — couples and individual, the person has to be trained correctly. He has a lot of individual work to figure out he could lie and cheat on the person he loves and why. My husband had to deal with his depression and childhood issues,
(13) Know that you are going tohave PTSD for a while
(14) Know that it takes 3-5 years ti recover minimum. So realize it is going to be hard for a while if you choose to work it out,
(15) Do not believe people who say it cannot work. Many cheaters do change but they have to change themselves.

So sorry — hugs and hugs,

I also think this is very good advice. No personal experience but support a very dear friend through a similar situation. They are still married and as far as I know (we talk probably daily or every other day and are pretty open) it is going very well years later. But it was a painful couple years, and she admits is still painful at times of course. Her husband was in a deep dark place and he had to work to come out of it, and he has. But woof. I also recommend thinking very carefully about who you tell and talk to. It sounds like SIL might be a reasonable option. In an ideal circumstance ONE friend might be good. What everyone says about telling too many people is really true, I know it sounds like divorce may be the best option for you, in case you decide the other way it is realllly hard for other people and makes it way harder on you.

I would add that if he really wants to work it out with you, go get a postnup right now and iron out all the issues you want addressed in the event that this ends in divorce. Do it now because you it'll make you feel better about your position going forward. Set aside enough money to fully fund 529 plans for the kids (and any other things you want funded for the kids, depending on your financial situation this might include trusts for each of them for their weddings and cars when they turn 16, whatever), and take care of any other financial issues you want addressed for you. Make it hard for him to ever cheat again and easy for you to leave if he does.

[Anonymous]

I am the PP who gave the advice based on my now over 3 years since October 2019 Discovery Day.

I also would say I decided to let DH stay because teens were in the middle of college applications and I did not want to blow up their lives but did so based on an agreement that I was only allowing him to stay for three months. Then we extended another 3. It helped me have some time frame to see if he woukd really do the work. It is hard, hard work for cheaters to confront themselves and get acquainted with their lack of integrity, and where that came from (often how they were treated in childhood and what they witnessed), it took a complete examination of self. My husband also had to give up or cut dramatically on porn to heal himself. It has completely changed his life and he is now a much happier person with a sense of agency and values, much better father and worker, is now doing things he would not allow himself to try before. The affair was like a kind of distracting addiction, totally saccharin because obviously the OW had serious issues herself and did not really care about him. She laughed at the prospect he might lose me and the kids. Cold, truly,

I also made him send me a signed document agreeing I got no less than half of money he had just inherited,

And, I considered a post nuptial to protect my earnings.

I will never forgive him, ever, but I have developed really strong boundaries and a better sense of self and a willingness to confront him I did not have before, i actually raised my standards and demanded much more from him.

It can work but it is hard hard hard.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, he's not. She can ask him to do things, and she can do anything herself, but if anyone told me to give up my phone for any reason, I'd be the one walking out. And I'm a woman.

Don't let the door hit your *ss on the way out. And I'm a woman.

DH gave me full phone access for about a year when he cheated. That was about 8 years ago. We're mostly happy and I don't think he's done it again, but I've never let my guard down in 8 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Nope, he's not. She can ask him to do things, and she can do anything herself, but if anyone told me to give up my phone for any reason, I'd be the one walking out. And I'm a woman.

Don't let the door hit your *ss on the way out. And I'm a woman.

DH gave me full phone access for about a year when he cheated. That was about 8 years ago. We're mostly happy and I don't think he's done it again, but I've never let my guard down in 8 years.

+1. Same and laptop. Calls/uses FaceTime- still takes live FaceTime when at gym, etc. For a long time he always took one of the kids when he had to go somewhere. I never asked for it. He did it.