Where does Virginia begin to feel ‘Southern’?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you’re still in Maryland.

+1

Charles County, I’m looking at you.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of confusion here between what is rural and what is Southern.

Rural Virginia= Southern , if it’s rural, that means it retained its original settlers without much influence from transplants or urbanization. All of Virginia is historically southern, unless there has been mass urbanization or migrants flocking there. I graduated from Loudoun County High School in Leesburg, and some of the kids and teachers there had southern accents. When I went to DC’s teacher parent meeting, the teacher there had a southern accent, as did the parents. In Leesburg (northern towards Lucketts), right next to the Potomax River, where it is still relatively rural and untouched.

There’s really not difference between rural Virginia and rural Pennsylvania.

This is true. Philly in the East, Pittsburgh in the West, and Alabama in between.

We call it Pennsyltucky.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of confusion here between what is rural and what is Southern.

Rural Virginia= Southern , if it’s rural, that means it retained its original settlers without much influence from transplants or urbanization. All of Virginia is historically southern, unless there has been mass urbanization or migrants flocking there. I graduated from Loudoun County High School in Leesburg, and some of the kids and teachers there had southern accents. When I went to DC’s teacher parent meeting, the teacher there had a southern accent, as did the parents. In Leesburg (northern towards Lucketts), right next to the Potomax River, where it is still relatively rural and untouched.

There’s really not difference between rural Virginia and rural Pennsylvania.

This is true. Philly in the East, Pittsburgh in the West, and Alabama in between.

We call it Pennsyltucky.

Well southern and western Pa has lots of Appalachian influences, as it is bordered by two arguably southern states (MD and WV), they’re bound to have some southern influence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of confusion here between what is rural and what is Southern.

Rural Virginia= Southern , if it’s rural, that means it retained its original settlers without much influence from transplants or urbanization. All of Virginia is historically southern, unless there has been mass urbanization or migrants flocking there. I graduated from Loudoun County High School in Leesburg, and some of the kids and teachers there had southern accents. When I went to DC’s teacher parent meeting, the teacher there had a southern accent, as did the parents. In Leesburg (northern towards Lucketts), right next to the Potomax River, where it is still relatively rural and untouched.

There’s really not difference between rural Virginia and rural Pennsylvania.

This is true. Philly in the East, Pittsburgh in the West, and Alabama in between.

We call it Pennsyltucky.

Well southern and western Pa has lots of Appalachian influences, as it is bordered by two arguably southern states (MD and WV), they’re bound to have some southern influence.

Ok, now do Maine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of confusion here between what is rural and what is Southern.

Rural Virginia= Southern , if it’s rural, that means it retained its original settlers without much influence from transplants or urbanization. All of Virginia is historically southern, unless there has been mass urbanization or migrants flocking there. I graduated from Loudoun County High School in Leesburg, and some of the kids and teachers there had southern accents. When I went to DC’s teacher parent meeting, the teacher there had a southern accent, as did the parents. In Leesburg (northern towards Lucketts), right next to the Potomax River, where it is still relatively rural and untouched.

There’s really not difference between rural Virginia and rural Pennsylvania.

This is true. Philly in the East, Pittsburgh in the West, and Alabama in between.

We call it Pennsyltucky.

Well southern and western Pa has lots of Appalachian influences, as it is bordered by two arguably southern states (MD and WV), they’re bound to have some southern influence.

Ok, now do Maine.

Maine, the second home for the Quebecois.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People with southern accents are so stupid.

Bless your heart.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People with southern accents are so stupid.

/\/\ says someone who prefers the New York accent of Donald Trump or Anrew Cuomo

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The South is not defined by bright lines—it’s a spectrum of cultural, geographic, and historical factors. I think of Virginia as a Southern state with strong northern influences—and the farther north you go in Virginia, the stronger those Northern influences are and the weaker the Southern influences are. (Conversely, I think of Maryland as a Northern state with strong Southern influences.). Northern Virginia feels much less “Southern” than places like Lynchburg, Danville, Emporia, and Richmond. But remember that, until just a few years ago, there was a Jeff Davis Highway and a Lee Highway in Arlington; there is still a Lee-Jackson Highway in Fairfax (though that is about to be changed); all of Virginia used to celebrate Lee-Jackson-King day; there is a neighborhood in the City of Fairfax where all the street names were Confederacy-related (though that is also about to change or has recently changed); there’s Sully Planation in Fairfax—I could go on. For someone coming from the North (as I did nearly 30 years ago), these Southern aspects of Northern Virginia stand out. And for someone coming from the Deep South, I’m sure that Northern Virginia’s more “Northern” influences make it feel less Southern than where they’re from—but the Southern roots are still there.

By the way, I don’t buy that just because a place is a college town (like Charlottesville) or is wealthy and diverse (like Northern Virginia) means that the place is not Southern. There are many progressive college towns scattered throughout the South, as well as large, diverse metro areas. Atlanta is the heart of the South, but much of suburban Atlanta looks and feels like Northern Virginia. Sure, it’s not connected to the Northeast Corridor like Northern Virginia, but demographically there are many similarities. Some would say that Atlanta is no longer “Southern” for that reason, but that’s relies on a small-and unfairly stereotypical view of the South.

This is a wonderfully written and thoughtful comment! I’m curious: Have you been to Western MD and the Eastern Shore? And if so, how did that influence your sense of Maryland as a “Northern state with strong Southern influences?” I’d like to get a better sense of some of the distinctions that you might be making. (History, accents, food, values, politics, identity…. )

Thanks! I have been to Western Maryland. The area around Hagerstown is part of the Great Valley and, not surprisingly, seems less Southern than places farther down I-81 (Harrisonburg, Stanton, Roanoke), but a bit more Southern than places farther north (Harrisburg). That makes sense, since there was a migration from Pennsylvania down into the Shenandoah Valley, which is why it’s culturally different in some respects from the Piedmont area of Virginia—the Blue Ridge Mountains acted as a barrier between these two areas.

Far Western Maryland (Cumberland) is basically wedged between Pennsylvania and West Virginia. That’s really more Appalachia than anything else. (BTW—West Virginia is a state that’s hard for me to categorize. Feels Southern yet it seceded from Virginia in the Civil War. Not really Northern or Mid-Atlantic because it’s so culturally different from much of what we think of as the Northeast/Mid Atlantic. And not really Midwestern, though it can feel that way along the Ohio River.)

The part of Maryland that feels most “Southern” to me is not the Eastern Shore but Southern Maryland. Economically that area is tied to Washington/Annapolis/Baltimore, but has an agricultural history and, if I recall correctly, a tobacco heritage. And I think the fact that Maryland is below the Pennsylvania-Maryland portion of the Mason-Dixon Line helps to give it some of its Southern influences, even if it is primarily a Northern state.

As for what makes something “Southern,” I think it’s a combination of things you identified—history, accents, food, etc. Those things tend align more in the core areas of the South and may become misaligned on the periphery. That’s why Northern Virginia may only check some of the boxes, and checks fewer boxes than other parts of Virginia. But it does check at least some boxes and, for better or worse (depending on your perspective), is part of a larger Commonwealth—which means that even if it feels fairly “Northern,” its politics and economics are tied to the overall politics of the state it’s in. And while Northern Virginia is largely responsible for Virginia’s Democratic tilt in the last 20 years, sometimes the rest of the state pulls NoVa back as happened in the 2021 statewide elections.

I appreciate your detailed response, PP. You’ve given me a lot to think about. I grew up in DC, and experienced the legacies of legal segregation, knew people who worked on what were essentially plantations on the Eastern Shore, remember seeing tobacco farms not far from DC, and definitely have a Southern accent — most of the time. At the same time, DC and MD have changed a lot since my childhood. I’m fascinated by other people’s varying perspectives and experiences. Thank you for sharing yours!

[Anonymous]

What does "feels Southern" even mean?

Warm and gracious hospitality?
Racism?
Country style food?
Conservative religion?
Rural farmland and small towns?
Backwards/outdated beliefs?
Charming drawls?
Obesity?
Genteel manners and traditions?
Rednecks?

The south comes with lots of good traits and some to be ashamed of. So does the north, the west, and everywhere in between. Usually people tend to latch onto one or two characteristics, usually negative ones, and paint the south and southerners with one massive brushstroke.

Virginia is a southern state. Where the south begins, something people have been debating my entire lifetime, all depends on what characteristics you subjectively assign as meaning "the south" and how you weight their existence in order of importance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There seems to be a lot of confusion here between what is rural and what is Southern.

Rural Virginia= Southern , if it’s rural, that means it retained its original settlers without much influence from transplants or urbanization. All of Virginia is historically southern, unless there has been mass urbanization or migrants flocking there. I graduated from Loudoun County High School in Leesburg, and some of the kids and teachers there had southern accents. When I went to DC’s teacher parent meeting, the teacher there had a southern accent, as did the parents. In Leesburg (northern towards Lucketts), right next to the Potomax River, where it is still relatively rural and untouched.

There’s really not difference between rural Virginia and rural Pennsylvania.

The people who settled there are different. The people who live in rural Pennsylvania are desecendents of Quakers, whereas the people who live in rural Virginia settled for the fertile land. The people who live in rural Virtinia were likely slave owners centuries ago who came from the English Isles, where as Pennsylvania rurals have roots from all over Europe.

“Many of the earliest Scots-Irish immigrants (of the 1720s and 1730s) first settled in Pennsylvania. Many then moved down from Pennsylvania into Virginia and the Carolinas.”

https://electricscotland.com/history/america/scots_irish.htm

Lots of German immigrants followed this same path from Pennsylvania.

PA was very much a melting pot with Germans being the largest group of settlers in the early years. Quakers were abolitionists so slavery wasn’t commonplace. PA also embraced the industrial revolution and saw many more waves of immigrants (Irish, Italians, etc) in later years and has a much different feel than the south. Far fewer traitors to start.

All parts of the country have their rural areas and corresponding culture. But that’s not “southern”.

[Anonymous]

Anywhere south of Lorton

[Anonymous]

South of Lorton and 1 mile west of Ashburn

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Every time I see people saying the south is so much more racist than the north, I think of that Nice White Parents podcast where they talk about the fact that people in NYC always say the south is so racist and they're so much more progressive yet their schools are more segregated than anywhere else in the entire country.

because it's about $$ not about skin color. I'm a nonwhite person who lived in a very white, rich area. I noticed how non diverse that area was given that I grew up in an area where white people were the minority.

Wealthy areas that have very little diversity are that way due to wealth and SES, not because of racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every time I see people saying the south is so much more racist than the north, I think of that Nice White Parents podcast where they talk about the fact that people in NYC always say the south is so racist and they're so much more progressive yet their schools are more segregated than anywhere else in the entire country.

because it's about $$ not about skin color. I'm a nonwhite person who lived in a very white, rich area. I noticed how non diverse that area was given that I grew up in an area where white people were the minority.

Wealthy areas that have very little diversity are that way due to wealth and SES, not because of racism.

Ummm...and why do the white people in those areas have wealth and a higher SES that allows them to segregate themselves?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People with southern accents are so stupid.

/\/\ says someone who prefers the New York accent of Donald Trump or Anrew Cuomo

Or the godawful Boston accent. “Let’s go to the bah, kid. It’ll be wicked fahn!”