Why is DCUM SO conservative with housing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t get why you wouldn’t *want* to be conservative about it, ideally.

Don’t you like to take vacations, have (possibly expensive) hobbies, go out to dinner, concerts, theater, bars with friends, have kids? Plus, you know, save.

All of that takes money.

OP here. I’ve always worked from home so a huge portion of my life is spent in my house. I would much rather spend discretionary income on a nice house than on nights on the town or hobbies which occupy a relatively small portion of my life.

Also, barring financial catastrophes that force you to sell at inopportune times, you get back much of your housing expense due to appreciation. A $1.6 million house that appreciates 4% per year is earning you $64,000/year at first (more later on as compounding takes over). That might roughly cover your interest, taxes and insurance (all but the “principal” in PITI). Of course, you do still have maintenance expenses. But assuming you put 20% down ($320,000), where else are you consistently earning 64K on a 320K investment?? And you get the higher quality of life thrown in there!

Bingo. All the nonsense on here or where ever where people spin how smart it is to buy a "conservative" or "modest" home is a cope. I know a lot of rich people, none of them live in a modest house. That's not to say they live in tacky homes, but you know what I mean. Always go big and always go for the most premier hot zip code you can. Life is short and those who swing for the fences get rewarded the most in America.

OMG except for all of the people that had to foreclose on their homes after 2008.

That didn’t happen in the “best” zip codes. I tracked close-in Alexandria and Arlington during the 2008 crash, and I saw maybe one or two foreclosures in Alexandria. Same in Arlington. Prices dipped maybe 5% at most — not enough to put people underwater.

[Anonymous]

I don't usually give advice to people about home prices/housing budgets, but I was conservative with my home purchase and have not regretted it. When I bought, my home price was a little under twice my annual salary. We live in a small 1940 bungalow, but my kids go to excellent schools and we are within walking distance to our commuter train, restaurants, library, etc. I'm a single parent, so having a low mortgage gives me peace of mind, and has allowed me to pay off all of my student loans, have no car loan, save aggressively in 529 plans (got a late start since I prioritized paying off my student loans first), have a very well-funded emergency fund and have extra retirement savings. I prioritize financial peace of mind over a larger house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't usually give advice to people about home prices/housing budgets, but I was conservative with my home purchase and have not regretted it. When I bought, my home price was a little under twice my annual salary. We live in a small 1940 bungalow, but my kids go to excellent schools and we are within walking distance to our commuter train, restaurants, library, etc. I'm a single parent, so having a low mortgage gives me peace of mind, and has allowed me to pay off all of my student loans, have no car loan, save aggressively in 529 plans (got a late start since I prioritized paying off my student loans first), have a very well-funded emergency fund and have extra retirement savings. I prioritize financial peace of mind over a larger house.

And can you imagine the world we'd live in if all our residents thought like that? Congrats to you!

[Anonymous]

I think there’s a real mental obstacle when you hit $1 million for real estate. It’s a MILLION dollars! After that, over $1.5. Then $2 m. The first time we bought a house for over a million, it was tough to get over. It helped that we were selling the house that we had bought for under a million for more than a million. Otherwise, I’m not sure we would have done it. The house we’re in now may be worth $2 million, but I’m not sure I could bring myself to buy a $2 million house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1. We don't make as much as the salaries posted here. HHI around 180k.

2. Bought a house for 400k, seven years ago. Could have went higher, but we already survived the 2008 collapse in San Diego county. We held on to that house for ten years after we moved so that we could make a profit. We didn't buy in the bubble, but housing prices dropped there so drastically, it didn't matter.

3. Now we have two in college. We are able to pay for their tuition. It's tight, but we couldn't save 200k on our salaries at the time for future college expenses. So now we pay each semester as we go.

That's how many of us donut hole families are able to pay. We couldn't save a full amount the last 18 years due to lower incomes, student loans, daycare, health care, etc. So once we started making more, we bought less. Right now we have no car payments, no student loans, and an affordable house payment.

How do you figure you’re a “donut hole family” if you can pay cash each semester??

Well my bank account is drained right now because I paid cash. I'm not sitting on huge investments earning tons of interest. I have to pay as we go. If we had overspend on a house or cars, then we would be taking out high interest parent plus loans. We were not able to save enough to cover costs. It hurts each payment we make. No financial aid, no consideration that I have a disabled spouse, and high medical bills. Sending them to college without a loan is VERY difficult, and it's only possible by buying less than we qualified for, while working hard to increase income the last two years. Even two years ago we could not have afforded college without loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

LOL. My father also served during Vietnam and took advantage of the GI bill. That said, I would trade what he gained financially for the security of not having to go to Vietnam. Also, do you know that if you serve(d), you can still take advantage of the GI bill today? I'm sorry but at no time have Gen-Xers lived a tougher life than their parents. Yes, things are more expensive now but you live in a much more secure world. You didn't have to live through the Cold War. You weren't drafted for Vietnam. Your parents didn't march off to WW2 to come back with a world of crap. I am also a Gen-X and I agree that Boomers financially made out better than our generation - cheaper housing, school, lower cost of living, easier to save - but they didn't have it "easier" by any measure.

People today just like to complain. Particularly if they've never actually gone through a real life-altering hardship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCUM wants others to think that even if the poster lives in universally acknowledged crappy home, they secretly have millions in the bank because they are just “conservative.” Except that isn’t true… home price is usually a pretty accurate reflection of the wealth a family has.

Warren Buffet lives in a home that most of us could afford.

https://www.businessinsider.com/warren-buffett-modest-home-bought-31500-looks-2017-6

He’s got numerous homes and all the other trapping of success. But yes he kept his old home and car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

This was my husband. He was planning to go work in high tech upon graduation and decided to go to law school instead. THEN he got laid off from BigLaw during the 2009 recession. We are fine now but we've had to change course/start over a few times. We also had to hold onto our starter home (purchased in 2007) because it wasn't worth what we paid until a few years ago. Thankfully now its worth $200k more than we paid and we plan to sell in the spring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

LOL. My father also served during Vietnam and took advantage of the GI bill. That said, I would trade what he gained financially for the security of not having to go to Vietnam. Also, do you know that if you serve(d), you can still take advantage of the GI bill today? I'm sorry but at no time have Gen-Xers lived a tougher life than their parents. Yes, things are more expensive now but you live in a much more secure world. You didn't have to live through the Cold War. You weren't drafted for Vietnam. Your parents didn't march off to WW2 to come back with a world of crap. I am also a Gen-X and I agree that Boomers financially made out better than our generation - cheaper housing, school, lower cost of living, easier to save - but they didn't have it "easier" by any measure.

People today just like to complain. Particularly if they've never actually gone through a real life-altering hardship.

How many of your friends served in Iraq or Afghanistan? How are they doing today?

Maybe it’s because I am a young gen x-er, but financially (which is what this thread is discussing -this is a money form and thread about housing), I know a lot of kids that really struggled between 2001/2008 and/or were shoved out of the military after 3-5 years with shitty options after some recruiter lied to them about what they were signing up for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just get confused by the pearl clutching at buying a 1m house on 300k income say, while at the same time everyone seems to have 2 to 3M in retirement accounts by 40 on even more modest income. Something doesn't add up. How can it be super scary to buy a 1M house at 3 to 4 times income and also a given we all need to save way more than that for retirement or starve. Honestly asking

This is an anonymous forum. The responses you read are from different people. Not everyone here has a $300K income and $2-$3M by 40. We have $1M, but DCUM would still consider us poor because our current income is low while one parent SAH.

+1 We're 50 with 2.3 million, but DCUM "poor" because we currently have only about 120k in income while paying 35k+ for college because one parent is SAH for other kid with medical needs. Really, really glad we bought a 450k home in 2010 rather than the 700-800k we could ostensibly could "easily afford" then before we knew about medical needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just get confused by the pearl clutching at buying a 1m house on 300k income say, while at the same time everyone seems to have 2 to 3M in retirement accounts by 40 on even more modest income. Something doesn't add up. How can it be super scary to buy a 1M house at 3 to 4 times income and also a given we all need to save way more than that for retirement or starve. Honestly asking

This is an anonymous forum. The responses you read are from different people. Not everyone here has a $300K income and $2-$3M by 40. We have $1M, but DCUM would still consider us poor because our current income is low while one parent SAH.

+1 We're 50 with 2.3 million, but DCUM "poor" because we currently have only about 120k in income while paying 35k+ for college because one parent is SAH for other kid with medical needs. Really, really glad we bought a 450k home in 2010 rather than the 700-800k we could ostensibly could "easily afford" then before we knew about medical needs.

But that isn't the point of the OP is it? She/he is talking about the "how much home can I afford?" posts where people come in an say "OMG I have 300K and twice as much in savings as you OP, but I could never imagine spending more than $500K! we would simply go broke it we spent even a penny more!!!" These posts so up every single time and honestly, they are ridiculous because half the time, those posters are leaving out some special circumstance.

Reading comprehension on this site is very, very poor. Most people use posts that are asking for advice as an opportunity to complain or humblebrag while not providing a realistic answer to the OP. I am constantly floored by how many posters claim high income and high net worth but appear unable to comprehend and appropriately respond to fairly simple posts.

PS - those posts are filled with people who freak out that anyone would spending much more than 2X their income on housing. You spent slightly less than 4X and were talking about spending 7-8X. That is WELL outside the bounds of the hysterics associated with these conversations and many of the conservative housing posters would probably think you were insane for spending nearly 4x your income on housing. Also LOL at the 2.3M but "DCUM poor." Not quite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just get confused by the pearl clutching at buying a 1m house on 300k income say, while at the same time everyone seems to have 2 to 3M in retirement accounts by 40 on even more modest income. Something doesn't add up. How can it be super scary to buy a 1M house at 3 to 4 times income and also a given we all need to save way more than that for retirement or starve. Honestly asking

This is an anonymous forum. The responses you read are from different people. Not everyone here has a $300K income and $2-$3M by 40. We have $1M, but DCUM would still consider us poor because our current income is low while one parent SAH.

+1 We're 50 with 2.3 million, but DCUM "poor" because we currently have only about 120k in income while paying 35k+ for college because one parent is SAH for other kid with medical needs. Really, really glad we bought a 450k home in 2010 rather than the 700-800k we could ostensibly could "easily afford" then before we knew about medical needs.

But that isn't the point of the OP is it? She/he is talking about the "how much home can I afford?" posts where people come in an say "OMG I have 300K and twice as much in savings as you OP, but I could never imagine spending more than $500K! we would simply go broke it we spent even a penny more!!!" These posts so up every single time and honestly, they are ridiculous because half the time, those posters are leaving out some special circumstance.

Reading comprehension on this site is very, very poor. Most people use posts that are asking for advice as an opportunity to complain or humblebrag while not providing a realistic answer to the OP. I am constantly floored by how many posters claim high income and high net worth but appear unable to comprehend and appropriately respond to fairly simple posts.

PS - those posts are filled with people who freak out that anyone would spending much more than 2X their income on housing. You spent slightly less than 4X and were talking about spending 7-8X. That is WELL outside the bounds of the hysterics associated with these conversations and many of the conservative housing posters would probably think you were insane for spending nearly 4x your income on housing. Also LOL at the 2.3M but "DCUM poor." Not quite.

No, my point was we were making MORE money at the time because we had a higher income (pre-medical needs child and need for a parent to stay home). Our HHI was then 250k so we spent just under 2x our income. We bought a house for less than what we could afford because we were more conservative than what the banks suggested. NOW that life has intervened, we're really glad we didn't as we lost an income and gained a lot of medical expenses. Given that we are starting our 50s with medical needs to continue to support, we're glad we live within the 120k means (college is paid paid through prior savings). My point is that being conservative is important because you don't know where life is going to take you and moving is a big hassle if life intervenes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

LOL. My father also served during Vietnam and took advantage of the GI bill. That said, I would trade what he gained financially for the security of not having to go to Vietnam. Also, do you know that if you serve(d), you can still take advantage of the GI bill today? I'm sorry but at no time have Gen-Xers lived a tougher life than their parents. Yes, things are more expensive now but you live in a much more secure world. You didn't have to live through the Cold War. You weren't drafted for Vietnam. Your parents didn't march off to WW2 to come back with a world of crap. I am also a Gen-X and I agree that Boomers financially made out better than our generation - cheaper housing, school, lower cost of living, easier to save - but they didn't have it "easier" by any measure.

People today just like to complain. Particularly if they've never actually gone through a real life-altering hardship.

How many of your friends served in Iraq or Afghanistan? How are they doing today?

Maybe it’s because I am a young gen x-er, but financially (which is what this thread is discussing -this is a money form and thread about housing), I know a lot of kids that really struggled between 2001/2008 and/or were shoved out of the military after 3-5 years with shitty options after some recruiter lied to them about what they were signing up for.

I have quite a few friends from the military who are doing well having taken up some really great consulting jobs outside of DC. My cousins in the military are now working as police officers and are doing ok, as they live in an area that has incredibly cheap housing. How well my friends/family have done post-military service usually reflects their education level prior to joining, I've found.

but this does circle back to the money and housing costs, as PP mentioned above. My generation (I am the tail-end of GenX, as well) overspends on housing, schooling, cars, and everything under the sun by a long shot. If you live in an expensive metro area and cannot make ends meet, you should move to an area with a lower cost of living. Our parents and grandparents would have, and did, do that. Younger generations seem to hang on to living in big urban areas that they cannot afford - DC, NY, SF, LA - just to continue their struggle there. If you opt to continue to live in a HCOL area, downsize the house. Live in a townhome, apt, etc.

To the original point, I still believe in being conservative with housing becuase that is your biggest expense. IF you keep that low, it enables you to save more cash for other things (retirement, investing, lifestyle, etc.) It's a smart move all around. Younger generations have forgotten (or never learned) why we save.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It is a change of generation. The younger generations don't believe in saving as much as their parents, grandparents, etc. They also haven't lived long enough to see the bottom fall out so they have never been scared senseless. Personally, I think society has gone sideways with the constant upselling on bigger, badder, better houses. It's not sustainable. I have no idea how these 6,000 sq ft homes are going to be maintained over the next 10-20 years. What will we do with them when our young kids and their kids want to bash and build?

Personally, I think we need to stop the perpetually supersizing mentality. But, alas, that is very un-American.

Wait, you don’t think young adults the worked between 2008 and today haven’t seen the bottom fall out TWICE??

If anything, this generation understands that much better than the previous. My parent’s generation was super lucky overall, and their wealth was a lot more luck and lot less hard work than my generation or my son’s.

1. People people in their 30s/40s did not have a lot of money invested in 2008, so the drop was not as scary.
2. What happened to the stock market in March 2020 COVID was nothing as it is quickly recovered.
3. Think when the tech bubble burst, or the lost decade in investing, earning no money for a decade.

I am the OP and I am in my mid-forties. I have friends whose entire career trajectories were massively impacted by 2001 and 2008. Not just the stock market, but their entire careers.

My son and my friend’s son graduated during COVID or are graduating this year. The job market isn’t great for this bunch as a whole. Much like my friends, this will impact their career trajectories, which impacts their savings, ability to purchase housing, etc.

In comparison my parents had it pretty damn good. $145k home now worth $2M. SAHM. College was $10k/year for me and my sister. Retired in their mid-50s with $4.5M, and are worth an awful lot more than that today because they got lifetime healthcare and paid off that $145k home when I was 14. They never made a lot, we were barely UMC (not lawyer/lobbyist types). It was not hard to save a ton when things were fairly cheap.

And yes, they had hardships - my dad was kicked out of his house at 17. But he was able to go to college on his own while working part time. No student loans needed. Went to Vietnam, but was also rewarded handsomely by government programs after that fact.

LOL. My father also served during Vietnam and took advantage of the GI bill. That said, I would trade what he gained financially for the security of not having to go to Vietnam. Also, do you know that if you serve(d), you can still take advantage of the GI bill today? I'm sorry but at no time have Gen-Xers lived a tougher life than their parents. Yes, things are more expensive now but you live in a much more secure world. You didn't have to live through the Cold War. You weren't drafted for Vietnam. Your parents didn't march off to WW2 to come back with a world of crap. I am also a Gen-X and I agree that Boomers financially made out better than our generation - cheaper housing, school, lower cost of living, easier to save - but they didn't have it "easier" by any measure.

People today just like to complain. Particularly if they've never actually gone through a real life-altering hardship.

Are you frickin kidding? Gen X had Afghanistan and Iraq, and will see the onset of climate change and the cold war with China after the boomers die. (But not before the boomers blow up the federal deficit to pay for their healthcare.) If you think the world is secure right now, you're nuts.

Don't take our word for it, look it up. White boomers had it much, much easier financially and socioeconomically than your average millennial. https://www.kiplinger.com/retirement/602986/myth-busting-millennials-vs-baby-boomers-where-you-stand-and-what-you-can-learn