Bipolar grandparent

[Anonymous]

My father is bipolar and interacts with our daughter in an extremely manic way. He acts like a child and does things like repeat odd phrases and cackle maniacally to get a reaction from her or fake crying after some small slight. He also misses social cues so parenting her around him is difficult. For example when we are trying to get her to play by herself after dinner while everyone else eats at the table, he'll keep engaging with her if she comes over to the table.

She is 3.5 and is very social and we are trying to teach her how to interact appropriately with others. She gets really wound up because of how he acts, mostly while he's here but I'm worried it'll start spilling over into her regular behavior (she sometimes cackles with other kids). After seeing her interact with her other grandparents I realized this isn't an "excited about grandparents" thing. They act like adults and she stays calm.

The current family dynamic is that he comes over to our house once a week for about 3 hours to visit and have dinner. I've told him repeatedly to stop winding her up, he doesn't see his behavior as out of the ordinary and will also make snide comments when I point it out. Clearly he's not going to change.

Should I be concerned about this or deal with it? My ideas are limit how often we see him or maybe start seeing him only in public because I don't think he'll act as strangely.

[Anonymous]

Is he medicated?

[Anonymous]

OP here, yes he is. His therapist says his baseline is manic.

This is a recent diagnosis (last 2 years) and he has been hospitalized for it. Over the past 10 years or so he has struggled with depression but lately it's only mania.

[Anonymous]

He "winds her up"? I'm not sure I see anything you've written as a problem to be dealt with. Maybe make sure he doesn't come over close to bedtime? Does it really matter if he wants to keep interacting with her after dinner? Maybe I'm not understanding, but...so what? Let them interact? Cackling? What do you mean, a loud laugh? Again....so what? The fake crying seems like the biggest potential issue but does she realize it's pretend or does she get upset about it? That one might bother me (depending on how she's reacting), but for the rest, I'm not really seeing the problem other than that he's annoying.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He "winds her up"? I'm not sure I see anything you've written as a problem to be dealt with. Maybe make sure he doesn't come over close to bedtime? Does it really matter if he wants to keep interacting with her after dinner? Maybe I'm not understanding, but...so what? Let them interact? Cackling? What do you mean, a loud laugh? Again....so what? The fake crying seems like the biggest potential issue but does she realize it's pretend or does she get upset about it? That one might bother me (depending on how she's reacting), but for the rest, I'm not really seeing the problem other than that he's annoying.

I just want to add that I see a real advantage in showing your daughter (she won't understand until she gets older) that your family values including continuing to love and interact with family members who are ill. I'd weigh any issues you have with his behavior against that and be sure you aren't limiting time unnecessarily.

I have an aunt who was mentally ill and most of the family does not interact with her. I really love and respected my mom for continuing to have a relationship, despite the difficulty.

[Anonymous]

He may behave oddly with her, but none of what you describe seems connected to him being bipolar. Cackling, missing social cues, etc. are not bipolar symptoms.

[Anonymous]

OP here. It's hard to convey his behavior in words. Imagine a hyper clown. Less calm than a 3 year old. He will pick a phrase that he wants to teach her and then essentially scream it to her throughout the evening and then laugh hysterically to get her to laugh. He will do this in the middle of adult conversation and as another example when I am trying to get everyone to sit down to dinner. DD continues to get louder and louder in response to his elevated behavior.

DD is extremely social and feeds on social interaction. She's also at the age where she mimics those around her. The dinner dynamic is that she is just starting to be able to play independently away from the table after she is done and others continue eating. If you interact with her, she'll come back to try to engage but instead of saying "I'm still eating", he will start uttering one of his phrases as I described above.

It's definitely annoying to me, but I'm trying to distinguish annoying vs potentially harmful for a young child to be around. Again he only interacts with her for about 3 hours a week. It's just that we're starting to see some of the behavior carrying over outside that time.

[Anonymous]

Just limit his time with her. And don’t let him take care of her. There’s really nothing he’s doing wrong and as long as he is around her only once in a while it won’t have a huge negative impact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My father is bipolar and interacts with our daughter in an extremely manic way. He acts like a child and does things like repeat odd phrases and cackle maniacally to get a reaction from her or fake crying after some small slight. He also misses social cues so parenting her around him is difficult. For example when we are trying to get her to play by herself after dinner while everyone else eats at the table, he'll keep engaging with her if she comes over to the table.

She is 3.5 and is very social and we are trying to teach her how to interact appropriately with others. She gets really wound up because of how he acts, mostly while he's here but I'm worried it'll start spilling over into her regular behavior (she sometimes cackles with other kids). After seeing her interact with her other grandparents I realized this isn't an "excited about grandparents" thing. They act like adults and she stays calm.

The current family dynamic is that he comes over to our house once a week for about 3 hours to visit and have dinner. I've told him repeatedly to stop winding her up, he doesn't see his behavior as out of the ordinary and will also make snide comments when I point it out. Clearly he's not going to change.

Should I be concerned about this or deal with it? My ideas are limit how often we see him or maybe start seeing him only in public because I don't think he'll act as strangely.

Same odd, selfish behavior from my FIL too. My kids are Pk and early ES and now get annoyed but don’t know how to say Pls leave me alone.

In our case they live far away and come stay for a few weeks so there is no respite. He also has untreated ADD so has issues listening, remembering, or seeing danger. For ex he almost backed the van over the 3 yo twice at his house not noticing the 3 yo followed him outside when they had first been playing.

I make sure I am around as much as possible, I am not afraid to speak up about our house rules or safety issues, and we limit exposures to 1-2 hours. mIl also tries to take the older child away if she sees she’s getting pestered by or anxious from FIL too long. He has been this way his whole life— it is not demonetized or old age- my husband said that growing up they took to just ignoring his and his outlandish behavior or comments.
I wish MiL had got them all treated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:He "winds her up"? I'm not sure I see anything you've written as a problem to be dealt with. Maybe make sure he doesn't come over close to bedtime? Does it really matter if he wants to keep interacting with her after dinner? Maybe I'm not understanding, but...so what? Let them interact? Cackling? What do you mean, a loud laugh? Again....so what? The fake crying seems like the biggest potential issue but does she realize it's pretend or does she get upset about it? That one might bother me (depending on how she's reacting), but for the rest, I'm not really seeing the problem other than that he's annoying.

FIL here only has Goodball Mode and it can last 24/7 the entire vacation visit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My father is bipolar and interacts with our daughter in an extremely manic way. He acts like a child and does things like repeat odd phrases and cackle maniacally to get a reaction from her or fake crying after some small slight. He also misses social cues so parenting her around him is difficult. For example when we are trying to get her to play by herself after dinner while everyone else eats at the table, he'll keep engaging with her if she comes over to the table.

She is 3.5 and is very social and we are trying to teach her how to interact appropriately with others. She gets really wound up because of how he acts, mostly while he's here but I'm worried it'll start spilling over into her regular behavior (she sometimes cackles with other kids). After seeing her interact with her other grandparents I realized this isn't an "excited about grandparents" thing. They act like adults and she stays calm.

The current family dynamic is that he comes over to our house once a week for about 3 hours to visit and have dinner. I've told him repeatedly to stop winding her up, he doesn't see his behavior as out of the ordinary and will also make snide comments when I point it out. Clearly he's not going to change.

Should I be concerned about this or deal with it? My ideas are limit how often we see him or maybe start seeing him only in public because I don't think he'll act as strangely.

Same odd, selfish behavior from my FIL too. My kids are Pk and early ES and now get annoyed but don’t know how to say Pls leave me alone.

In our case they live far away and come stay for a few weeks so there is no respite. He also has untreated ADD so has issues listening, remembering, or seeing danger. For ex he almost backed the van over the 3 yo twice at his house not noticing the 3 yo followed him outside when they had first been playing.

I make sure I am around as much as possible, I am not afraid to speak up about our house rules or safety issues, and we limit exposures to 1-2 hours. mIl also tries to take the older child away if she sees she’s getting pestered by or anxious from FIL too long. He has been this way his whole life— it is not demonetized or old age- my husband said that growing up they took to just ignoring his and his outlandish behavior or comments.
I wish MiL had got them all treated.

It's not really selfish if he has untreated ADD. I mean, of course, keep your kids safe (!) but maybe you can view him in a better light if you realize it's the way his brain is wired and would be incredibly difficult to act differently.

[Anonymous]

Set boundaries like you would with any grandparent--be direct.

Talking separately: "Dad, I would really appreciate it if you would back us up when we're asking DD to do something. You don't need to engage, but just respect that we've asked her to, for instance, play by herself after dinner."

In the moment, "Dad, we've got this." "Dad, we just asked DD not to do x, so please don't encourage her." Etc.

It may not work well or at all, but it's worth trying before you pursue other options.

[Anonymous]

NP with bipolar ex spouse and ex MIL. It’s hard. You describe in your OP very accurately how the bipolar behavior can be confusing for kids and teach them inappropriate social behaviors. No amount of rationality gets through during mania or hypomania.

IMO, you will need to change the dynamic of the situation. Can you shift dinner later so your toddler sees him less?? Eat late and she basically goes to bed right after? Or feed her earlier, let him play with her for an hour and then put her to bed?

Or switch the one family meal a week to outdoor play and brunch or lunch. That way mania is expended in physical play?

IME, you will generally have no success explaining boundaries or that his behavior is inappropriate and he needs to change.

More concerning is the doctor’s statement that mania is notmal. What meds is he on? Antidepressants, especially when prescribed without an effective mood stabilizer can make mania worse. It did with my exDH. Also, a doc experienced with bipolar patients should welcome regular family input on assessment if mood. It is part of APA best practices.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My father is bipolar and interacts with our daughter in an extremely manic way. He acts like a child and does things like repeat odd phrases and cackle maniacally to get a reaction from her or fake crying after some small slight. He also misses social cues so parenting her around him is difficult. For example when we are trying to get her to play by herself after dinner while everyone else eats at the table, he'll keep engaging with her if she comes over to the table.

She is 3.5 and is very social and we are trying to teach her how to interact appropriately with others. She gets really wound up because of how he acts, mostly while he's here but I'm worried it'll start spilling over into her regular behavior (she sometimes cackles with other kids). After seeing her interact with her other grandparents I realized this isn't an "excited about grandparents" thing. They act like adults and she stays calm.

The current family dynamic is that he comes over to our house once a week for about 3 hours to visit and have dinner. I've told him repeatedly to stop winding her up, he doesn't see his behavior as out of the ordinary and will also make snide comments when I point it out. Clearly he's not going to change.

Should I be concerned about this or deal with it? My ideas are limit how often we see him or maybe start seeing him only in public because I don't think he'll act as strangely.

Same odd, selfish behavior from my FIL too. My kids are Pk and early ES and now get annoyed but don’t know how to say Pls leave me alone.

In our case they live far away and come stay for a few weeks so there is no respite. He also has untreated ADD so has issues listening, remembering, or seeing danger. For ex he almost backed the van over the 3 yo twice at his house not noticing the 3 yo followed him outside when they had first been playing.

I make sure I am around as much as possible, I am not afraid to speak up about our house rules or safety issues, and we limit exposures to 1-2 hours. mIl also tries to take the older child away if she sees she’s getting pestered by or anxious from FIL too long. He has been this way his whole life— it is not demonetized or old age- my husband said that growing up they took to just ignoring his and his outlandish behavior or comments.
I wish MiL had got them all treated.

It's not really selfish if he has untreated ADD. I mean, of course, keep your kids safe (!) but maybe you can view him in a better light if you realize it's the way his brain is wired and would be incredibly difficult to act differently.

His parents should have got him treated.
His wife should have got him treated.
His adult children should have got him treated.

Now the DIL is supposed to? Sounds like a bunch of mental people in denial. Can’t be pleasant.

[Anonymous]

You can certainly demonstrate family values including continuing to love and interact with family members who are ill in a way that limits your daughter's exposure. So much is in how you speak of them, the illness, and the kindness you extend. I don't think any exposure at all *needs* to be included in that.

We used to only see a particular extended IL in public because of BP&SZ. We thought it would help, but it didn't, not really. At first they were able to follow the social script but it deteriorated rapidly. It depends on the severity of the disease and where they are in the progression, I think.

I don't think it is realistic to expect someone with either of those diagnoses to change their behavior much if they are already behaving that oddly. I would plan visits within a few days of their medication (if they get the 3 month shot). Otherwise, we just had to limit contact. We are the only ones who remain in touch and were the very last to wind it down. It makes everyone sad but they became too unstable, even with meds.

I think you are right to be concerned about your daughter's social behavior and mimicry. I'd put her to bed earlier or perhaps send her off on a sleepover or movie night after dinner/before dinner and dropped off just before dinner begins, assuming they leave afterward or she goes to bed.

I like the suggestion to move it to an earlier picnic type meal if you do meet. Something preferably where she is off running around with other kids at the park or a play place. I'd be really concerned about her imitating him. It is critical she learns to read social cues properly.

We don't let our DC near our particular IL (mania became aggressive delusions) but we do phone calls. When anyone asks where they are, we just explain that they have some health issues so they can't travel anymore.