Protests on college campuses

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If these spoiled students and professors are so concerned for Gaza, why don’t they fly over to here and put their boots on the ground and help? Surely that would be more effective than screaming and holding up a cardboard sign on the campuses of their gilded overpriced colleges.

^^^
Fly over there

WTF? You think the most effective way to protest this is to fly to a war zone and offer yourself up as fodder for more Israeli air strikes.

WTF is wrong with you?

Yes, their constant tantrums ("protesting") are really doing a lot to help Palestinians. So effective.
DP

So odd all the right wing types that have a gun fetish and want students to be able to carry ARs openly and/on campuses (which many people find extremely threatening). But want to shut down 1A protests. There is a strong line of SCOTUS cases about what is and is not allowable. Targeting kids because you think they support the wrong side is not. Neither is uncomfortable speech or even hateful speech. Actual threats and violence are not permissible and should be swiftly dealt with. But only supporting protests that you agree with kinda missed the point of protests.


That said, I tell my own college kids that the best way to make change to be an engaged and informed voter. And if they are not informing themselves about issues and voting in every election, joining a protest movement is hypocritical.

But in general? The US needs fewer apathetic citizens. Sure, these kids are idealistic. But as they grow up, their views will become more nuanced. And for the good of this country, I hope this generation remains engaged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have been impressed with the way the Univ of Chicago has been handling this:

Dear Members of the University Community,
Just a few hours ago, a group of students established an encampment on the Main Quad as a form of protest. This particular tactic is now in widespread use at universities across the country. At some, encampments have been forcibly removed, with police arresting students and faculty in chaotic scenes that are disturbing. At others, encampments have persisted, despite attempts to shut them down with force. In some cases, encampments have resulted in major disruptions to learning and the activities of the university community.
Free expression is the core animating value of the University of Chicago, so it is critical that we be clear about how I and my administration think about the issue of encampments, how the actions we take in response will follow directly from our principles, and specific considerations that will influence our judgments and actions.
The general principle we will abide by is to provide the greatest leeway possible for free expression, even expression of viewpoints that some find deeply offensive. We only will intervene when what might have been an exercise of free expression blocks the learning or expression of others or that substantially disrupts the functioning or safety of the University. These are our principles. They are clear.
Two recent examples illustrate how we bring these principles into real action. First, last quarter a student group secured university permission to cover a large fraction of the Main Quad with a massive Palestinian flag consisting of thousands of tiny colored flags. The exhibit was accompanied by signage exhorting passersby to “Honor the Martyrs,” and it was staffed by students at tables during certain hours. Those students could explain to passersby why they thought it important to feature this installation, why they thought that language was appropriate, and any other views occasioned by their installation. While this protest and accompanying message were offensive to many, there was no question that it was an exercise of free expression. It stood for weeks until the end of the approved time, at which point the student group removed it, making way for others to express their views in that space as they might see fit. This example should make it clear that we approach the issue with no discrimination against the viewpoints of those participating in this encampment. We adhere to viewpoint neutrality rigorously.
As a second illustrative example, in November, a group of students and faculty undertook an occupation of Rosenwald Hall, a classroom and administration building. That was a clear disruption of the learning of others and of the normal functioning of the University. After repeated warnings, the protesters were arrested and released. They are subject now to the University’s disciplinary process, which is still pending. In short, when expression becomes disruption, we act decisively to protect the learning environment of students and the functioning of the University against genuinely disruptive protesters.
There are almost an unlimited number of ways in which students or other members of the University community can protest that violate no policies of the University at all; the spectrum of ways to express a viewpoint and seek to persuade others is vast. But establishing an encampment clearly violates policies against building structures on campus without prior approval and against overnight sleeping on campus.
I believe the protesters should also consider that an encampment, with all the etymological connections of the word to military origins, is a way of using force of a kind rather than reason to persuade others. For a short period of time, however, the impact of a modest encampment does not differ so much from a conventional rally or march. Given the importance of the expressive rights of our students, we may allow an encampment to remain for a short time despite the obvious violations of policy—but those violating university policy should expect to face disciplinary consequences.
The impact of an encampment depends on the degree to which it disrupts study, scholarship, and free movement around campus. To be clear, we will not tolerate violence or harassment directed at individuals or groups. And, disruption becomes greater the longer the encampment persists. With a 24-hour presence, day after day, we must for example divert police resources away from public safety for our campus and our community.
If necessary, we will act to preserve the essential functioning of the campus against the accumulated effects of these disruptions. I ask the students who have established this encampment to instead embrace the multitude of other tools at their disposal. Seek to persuade others of your viewpoint with methods that do not violate policies or disrupt the functioning of the University and the safety of others.
Sincerely,
Paul
-------
Paul Alivisatos
President

Better yet is the way the Univ. of Florida handled this....

[Anonymous]

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the protesters have a position on Hamas’ slaughter of innocent people at a music/peace festival on October 7?

The death of innocents is universally condemned, in the student protests I have heard. Hamas committed atrocious act of violence on 10/7.

Since then, collective punishment resulting in the deaths of babies and innocent civilians has been meted out by Israel, funded by the USA.

Why, don't the students demand Hamas surrender?

Maybe because they claim to be Hamas?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kas9aY47fw

Oh grow up
No need to smear a peaceful protest, they are not being anti semitic

Just like the Palestinians celebrated when 9/11 took place?

[Anonymous]

Ignore the protests, and lose. History is on the side of protesters.

Each and every time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do the protesters have a position on Hamas’ slaughter of innocent people at a music/peace festival on October 7?

They're either for it or they excused it.

-1. I have a kid at WM. Many strongly opposed it. To the point that campus police were constantly on hand and everyone breathed a sign of relief when they came home for fall break and there was a cooling off period. As of the last time I talked to my WM kid (Sun pm) there were no encampments or mass protests at WM. But she said that she had though she would get through finals without serious incidents, but the the President Katherine Rowe, sent out a sent out a strongly FAFO email to the student body preemptively. And that made students so angry she was concerned WM was up next for mass protest, which my articulate kid would prefer the college avoids. But daring the kids to act was not going over well, even with her. Turns out VT, VCU and UMW beat them to the punch.

These university presidents are astonishingly stupid when it comes to dealing with young adult.

I’ll be glad to get her home for the summer.

[Anonymous]

These Columbia students are not the best and brightest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long story short, it is the right of American citizens to protest, if it doesn’t suit a certain narrative then it’s not their problem. If these kids want to protest, then they have every right to do so, there is a big Zionist lobby that has tried to control every opinion and aspect of this conflict since 10/7 and anyone not agreeing with Israel is promptly labeled antisemitic. Frankly, it’s nauseating.

It is their right. But their pro-Hamas protests win no hearts or minds.

The right wingers and administrators who are siccing the cops on them aren’t winning any hearts and minds either.

They are breaking the law by violently protesting, accosting police, and trespassing. Yet you think there should be no consequences? Of course you do. This is why normal, sane people think you are crazy.

This started with a bunch of dumb college kids camping in tents holding signs. The administration could have just ignored them and let them be stupid. They overreacted and made this a power game.

+1. It’s like University Presidents are CEOs with no actual understanding of college kids.

I talked to my college kid (on a so far protest free campus, thank goodness) last weekend. They were having trouble with a housemate’s behavior. And I reminded them that we weren’t in September, when a permanent solution to the behavior was needed to avoid an unpleasant school year. Instead, a light touch and keeping the peach for 10 days would get them through finals and that they weren’t scheduled to room with that person next year.

Columbia’s President kow-towed to the extreme right in Congress, because they had cancelled prior university presidents. And then followed through by dealing with theColumbia protestors with a heavy hand *from a war room in DC* with no attempts to deescalate or contain the protestors first. And it backfired bigly. Anyone who actual knows college kids could have told her that would happen. She massively over reacted, and there was a backlash.

There is an alternative universe where she ignored the students and dealt with any specific behaviors that were actually violent or threatening (as opposed to expressing a distasteful viewpoint or being annoying, which is the point of protest and is protected under 1A). Had professors flunk kids who didn’t show up for finals. And issued trespassing citations and cut off campus building key card access for kids who were not off campus within 24-48 hours after their last final (the rule at my kids college). And most of the kids would have dispersed before commencement.

Then she doubled down on what didn’t work yesterday, and now they took over a campus building.

It’s like she had no understanding of college kids and is a Fortune 500 CEO primarily there to make donors happy and have an occasional orchestrated photo op with students. Because that’s what she is.

I have no idea why she did not just ignore them as group until the end of the semester, discipline only bad actors, and wait for summer DP vacation, when everyone could take a breath and calm down.

Stupid. What she did was stupid. Divorced from the reality of how 18-22 year olds think annd operate. And seemed designed to cause more problems than it solved.

+1000

The issue is not the topic of the protest which no university should really express an opinion on. The issue is the disruption of other students rights to an education, any possible violence against others, non participation by the protesters in their schoolwork and occupation of a building. These individual actions should be dealt with. But whatever they are protesting is not the point. And they made it the point. It’s like they never dealt with kids before.

Part of the issue is that some faculty have also expressed solidarity with the political points of the protestors. Which was dumb of them.

Why is that a problem? Faculty should be able to comment freely on either side of this and any issue.

I mean you have donors trying to influence university positions by threatening to withhold gifts. It seemed crude but influencing policy with money (which is a form of speech) is as American as apple pie.

Faculty showed up to protect the protesters after they had been told to evacuate and remove their illegal encampment.
Faculty should be able to comment freely, but not aid and abet the students who were clearly breaking the rules.
I am glad the faculty is showing who they are........ perhaps perspective students will see this and make their decisions accordingly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ignore the protests, and lose. History is on the side of protesters.

Each and every time.

Selective memory with this one...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ignore the protests, and lose. History is on the side of protesters.

Each and every time.

Uh, no.

[Anonymous]

Here is how they should deal with the students who have occupied Hamilton Hall...

They should make sure the building is secure. Let nobody enter and nobody exit.
Cut off the electricity. These brats will have no way to charge their phones.
Cut off the water.
Do NOT allow food or water into the building.
Eventually, they will surrender.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is how they should deal with the students who have occupied Hamilton Hall...

They should make sure the building is secure. Let nobody enter and nobody exit.
Cut off the electricity. These brats will have no way to charge their phones.
Cut off the water.
Do NOT allow food or water into the building.
Eventually, they will surrender.

PP here... I will add.... anyone who exits is immediately arrested and taken into custody.
No amnesty for these fools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If these spoiled students and professors are so concerned for Gaza, why don’t they fly over to here and put their boots on the ground and help? Surely that would be more effective than screaming and holding up a cardboard sign on the campuses of their gilded overpriced colleges.

^^^
Fly over there

WTF? You think the most effective way to protest this is to fly to a war zone and offer yourself up as fodder for more Israeli air strikes.

WTF is wrong with you?

Yes, their constant tantrums ("protesting") are really doing a lot to help Palestinians. So effective.
DP

So odd all the right wing types that have a gun fetish and want students to be able to carry ARs openly and/on campuses (which many people find extremely threatening). But want to shut down 1A protests. There is a strong line of SCOTUS cases about what is and is not allowable. Targeting kids because you think they support the wrong side is not. Neither is uncomfortable speech or even hateful speech. Actual threats and violence are not permissible and should be swiftly dealt with. But only supporting protests that you agree with kinda missed the point of protests.


That said, I tell my own college kids that the best way to make change to be an engaged and informed voter. And if they are not informing themselves about issues and voting in every election, joining a protest movement is hypocritical.

But in general? The US needs fewer apathetic citizens. Sure, these kids are idealistic. But as they grow up, their views will become more nuanced. And for the good of this country, I hope this generation remains engaged.

Actual threats and violence and taking over private buildings

Also, these aren’t children, they are voting age adults and should be treated as such.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ignore the protests, and lose. History is on the side of protesters.

Each and every time.

Hmm... So even when the KKK protested.... History was on their side.

My suggestion would be not live your life with slogans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is how they should deal with the students who have occupied Hamilton Hall...

They should make sure the building is secure. Let nobody enter and nobody exit.
Cut off the electricity. These brats will have no way to charge their phones.
Cut off the water.
Do NOT allow food or water into the building.
Eventually, they will surrender.

It’s easier to just expel trespassing students. This isn’t hard.