Another UChicago student murdered. 20-yo undergraduate dies after being shot on subway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has there ever been an exodus of academics from UChicago to Northwestern due to the crime? I know there's a lot of cross-exchange between, for example, Harvard and MIT faculty, and I can imagine some of the crime might be an impetus to move north.

My husband is a professor at U of C and literally this has never come up in the many conversations I've had with his colleagues. In fact, location tends to be a draw to folks because Chicago is a fun, big, affordable city and people want to live there. The only safety related discussions I hear about are where people want to live (like, suburbs? Woodlawn? Kenwood? North Side?) and those really have more to do with schools and taxes.

Shockingly, I'm sure, many people in the world actually prefer places like the south side of Chicago to Evanston.

DP, but you make it sound like Evanston is some distant self-contained universe. Evanston is as close (if not closer) to many of the attractions that make Chicago the great city it is, and is a great town in and of itself.

Your last sentence is also quite a big claim.

Chicagoan here who was just there last week - in both Evanston and HP. Evanston is definitely not closer to downtown Chicago than HP is. Evanston is almost 20 miles from the loop whereas HP is less than half that. Evanston is farther away, it’s a fact.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to be a first-year next year. We received emails on this. fyi the student was not targeted, it was a stray bullet. Independently, both my kid and I looked on google maps and it's ugh, so close to campus.

My kid is now a bit freaked. The other murder was off campus in an apartment building that is often rented by UChicago graduate students, so it was a little easier for my kid to psychologically distance.

We are in Southern California and don't know Chicago well at all. I'm going to mention to my kid that the reason she's now aware of this stuff is because she's admitted. I've watched bad stuff go on around USC but she doesn't know about it because they don't send an email to her as she's not a student there.

PP thanks for the info on the Metra vs. the El.

Broad daylight muggings on and around campus are not uncommon. When a perp mugs you, it's not like this is a huge scene, it happens quickly and quietly. Even if they don't harm you, they have your phone(s), so nobody is calling 911 right away. You'd have to run to an emergency phone. Perps know campus and city police, even if they happen to be nearby, can't engage in high speed pursuits. Many crime incidents are technically off campus and/or not in Hyde Park, so they are more easily brushed under the rug. Campus is a boring bubble about 10 miles south of downtown, so for kids to get anywhere exciting, they have to travel. When you leave the campus bubble, you leave that private police force's orbit. Every time you leave that bubble, especially if you take public transportation, you're putting yourself in harm's way. Ironically, the College gives kids U-Passes, encouraging them to put themselves in harm's way on public transportation.

Chicago resident and my husband teaches at U of C and basically none of this this is true, FWIW.

Violent crime *is* up in the city though. The off campus victim earlier this year was one of several people killed in a cross-city mass shooting spree; it wasn’t really typical Chicago crime. The more recent was a stray bullet, which is more common.

“Basically”? What precisely is not true? It’s all true and you know it.

It is not 10 miles from downtown and it's not boring (when were you last there?). 15 minute uber ride from the middle of the Loop in the worst of times.

Muggings in daylight are not common. Not even sure how you'd define that, but they're extremely rare in HP. You're not "putting yourself in harms way" if you leave campus; many of the neighborhoods around it are interesting and diverse and yeah, you don't want to go wandering around trying to buy drugs at 2 am, but they're perfectly safe normally.

As for carjackings, they definitely are a concern in Chicago. And crime is absolutely up this year, as it is in most places around the country. BUT carjackings are very dispersed around the city and extremely easy to avoid if you lock your car as soon as you get into it.

UC bookstore to Navy Pier is over 9 miles. UC bookstore to Rush Street restaurants in 10 miles.

Your comment about crime victims must be out scoring dope at 2 a.m. is truly disgusting. You think the deceased young man was on the train going to score drugs? Is that what all the UC kids mugged, randomly assaulted for no reason, burglarized, and car jacked are doing too? You're a sick person. Anyone who twists themselves into a pretzel to rationalize and gloss over violent crime needs their head (and motives) examined.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to be a first-year next year. We received emails on this. fyi the student was not targeted, it was a stray bullet. Independently, both my kid and I looked on google maps and it's ugh, so close to campus.

My kid is now a bit freaked. The other murder was off campus in an apartment building that is often rented by UChicago graduate students, so it was a little easier for my kid to psychologically distance.

We are in Southern California and don't know Chicago well at all. I'm going to mention to my kid that the reason she's now aware of this stuff is because she's admitted. I've watched bad stuff go on around USC but she doesn't know about it because they don't send an email to her as she's not a student there.

PP thanks for the info on the Metra vs. the El.

Broad daylight muggings on and around campus are not uncommon. When a perp mugs you, it's not like this is a huge scene, it happens quickly and quietly. Even if they don't harm you, they have your phone(s), so nobody is calling 911 right away. You'd have to run to an emergency phone. Perps know campus and city police, even if they happen to be nearby, can't engage in high speed pursuits. Many crime incidents are technically off campus and/or not in Hyde Park, so they are more easily brushed under the rug. Campus is a boring bubble about 10 miles south of downtown, so for kids to get anywhere exciting, they have to travel. When you leave the campus bubble, you leave that private police force's orbit. Every time you leave that bubble, especially if you take public transportation, you're putting yourself in harm's way. Ironically, the College gives kids U-Passes, encouraging them to put themselves in harm's way on public transportation.

Chicago resident and my husband teaches at U of C and basically none of this this is true, FWIW.

Violent crime *is* up in the city though. The off campus victim earlier this year was one of several people killed in a cross-city mass shooting spree; it wasn’t really typical Chicago crime. The more recent was a stray bullet, which is more common.

“Basically”? What precisely is not true? It’s all true and you know it.

It is not 10 miles from downtown and it's not boring (when were you last there?). 15 minute uber ride from the middle of the Loop in the worst of times.

Muggings in daylight are not common. Not even sure how you'd define that, but they're extremely rare in HP. You're not "putting yourself in harms way" if you leave campus; many of the neighborhoods around it are interesting and diverse and yeah, you don't want to go wandering around trying to buy drugs at 2 am, but they're perfectly safe normally.

As for carjackings, they definitely are a concern in Chicago. And crime is absolutely up this year, as it is in most places around the country. BUT carjackings are very dispersed around the city and extremely easy to avoid if you lock your car as soon as you get into it.

UC bookstore to Navy Pier is over 9 miles. UC bookstore to Rush Street restaurants in 10 miles.

Your comment about crime victims must be out scoring dope at 2 a.m. is truly disgusting. You think the deceased young man was on the train going to score drugs? Is that what all the UC kids mugged, randomly assaulted for no reason, burglarized, and car jacked are doing too? You're a sick person. Anyone who twists themselves into a pretzel to rationalize and gloss over violent crime needs their head (and motives) examined.

DP, but Rush Street is not downtown.

My recent grad says no one she knew in her 4 years at UChicago was mugged, assaulted, or car-jacked. She did have a bike stolen (after locking it improperly).

Two random tragedies that happened to involve UChicago students (one a 30 year old PhD candidate in a car in his apartment building’s garage; another an undergrad riding the L home from a summer internship) are being used to make an essentially racist argument that sending your kid to UChicago for college involves placing them in mortal danger.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, I would use a different school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is going to be a first-year next year. We received emails on this. fyi the student was not targeted, it was a stray bullet. Independently, both my kid and I looked on google maps and it's ugh, so close to campus.

My kid is now a bit freaked. The other murder was off campus in an apartment building that is often rented by UChicago graduate students, so it was a little easier for my kid to psychologically distance.

We are in Southern California and don't know Chicago well at all. I'm going to mention to my kid that the reason she's now aware of this stuff is because she's admitted. I've watched bad stuff go on around USC but she doesn't know about it because they don't send an email to her as she's not a student there.

PP thanks for the info on the Metra vs. the El.

Broad daylight muggings on and around campus are not uncommon. When a perp mugs you, it's not like this is a huge scene, it happens quickly and quietly. Even if they don't harm you, they have your phone(s), so nobody is calling 911 right away. You'd have to run to an emergency phone. Perps know campus and city police, even if they happen to be nearby, can't engage in high speed pursuits. Many crime incidents are technically off campus and/or not in Hyde Park, so they are more easily brushed under the rug. Campus is a boring bubble about 10 miles south of downtown, so for kids to get anywhere exciting, they have to travel. When you leave the campus bubble, you leave that private police force's orbit. Every time you leave that bubble, especially if you take public transportation, you're putting yourself in harm's way. Ironically, the College gives kids U-Passes, encouraging them to put themselves in harm's way on public transportation.

Chicago resident and my husband teaches at U of C and basically none of this this is true, FWIW.

Violent crime *is* up in the city though. The off campus victim earlier this year was one of several people killed in a cross-city mass shooting spree; it wasn’t really typical Chicago crime. The more recent was a stray bullet, which is more common.

“Basically”? What precisely is not true? It’s all true and you know it.

It is not 10 miles from downtown and it's not boring (when were you last there?). 15 minute uber ride from the middle of the Loop in the worst of times.

Muggings in daylight are not common. Not even sure how you'd define that, but they're extremely rare in HP. You're not "putting yourself in harms way" if you leave campus; many of the neighborhoods around it are interesting and diverse and yeah, you don't want to go wandering around trying to buy drugs at 2 am, but they're perfectly safe normally.

As for carjackings, they definitely are a concern in Chicago. And crime is absolutely up this year, as it is in most places around the country. BUT carjackings are very dispersed around the city and extremely easy to avoid if you lock your car as soon as you get into it.

UC bookstore to Navy Pier is over 9 miles. UC bookstore to Rush Street restaurants in 10 miles.

Your comment about crime victims must be out scoring dope at 2 a.m. is truly disgusting. You think the deceased young man was on the train going to score drugs? Is that what all the UC kids mugged, randomly assaulted for no reason, burglarized, and car jacked are doing too? You're a sick person. Anyone who twists themselves into a pretzel to rationalize and gloss over violent crime needs their head (and motives) examined.

DP, but Rush Street is not downtown.

My recent grad says no one she knew in her 4 years at UChicago was mugged, assaulted, or car-jacked. She did have a bike stolen (after locking it improperly).

Two random tragedies that happened to involve UChicago students (one a 30 year old PhD candidate in a car in his apartment building’s garage; another an undergrad riding the L home from a summer internship) are being used to make an essentially racist argument that sending your kid to UChicago for college involves placing them in mortal danger.

Quoted PP, and I agree. Of course the 20 year old hit by a stray bullet is a huge tragedy, and of *course* I'm not suggesting that it was his fault. But FOTM is that most shooting victims in Chicago are linked to gang violence in one way or another. Which is itself a tragedy, and speaks to bigger societal issues related to racism and corruption.

I'm not going to lie, the stray bullet situation does concern me (I live in Chicago) and this isn't the first tragic situation involving one. Several children have been killed in similar situations across town -- but no one on DCUM is howling about that b/c those kids weren't students at an elite college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has there ever been an exodus of academics from UChicago to Northwestern due to the crime? I know there's a lot of cross-exchange between, for example, Harvard and MIT faculty, and I can imagine some of the crime might be an impetus to move north.

My husband is a professor at U of C and literally this has never come up in the many conversations I've had with his colleagues. In fact, location tends to be a draw to folks because Chicago is a fun, big, affordable city and people want to live there. The only safety related discussions I hear about are where people want to live (like, suburbs? Woodlawn? Kenwood? North Side?) and those really have more to do with schools and taxes.

Shockingly, I'm sure, many people in the world actually prefer places like the south side of Chicago to Evanston.

DP, but you make it sound like Evanston is some distant self-contained universe. Evanston is as close (if not closer) to many of the attractions that make Chicago the great city it is, and is a great town in and of itself.

Your last sentence is also quite a big claim.

PP is an obvious UChicago shill. I’m guessing she’s one of the two admissions reps for DMV.

Lol. Nope. People can have different opinions about a place than you do and not be paid shills. I don't go there, didn't go there, and don't care if your kids go there. But I will defend Chicago's south side against Fox News fed racist attacks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Has there ever been an exodus of academics from UChicago to Northwestern due to the crime? I know there's a lot of cross-exchange between, for example, Harvard and MIT faculty, and I can imagine some of the crime might be an impetus to move north.

My husband is a professor at U of C and literally this has never come up in the many conversations I've had with his colleagues. In fact, location tends to be a draw to folks because Chicago is a fun, big, affordable city and people want to live there. The only safety related discussions I hear about are where people want to live (like, suburbs? Woodlawn? Kenwood? North Side?) and those really have more to do with schools and taxes.

Shockingly, I'm sure, many people in the world actually prefer places like the south side of Chicago to Evanston.

Interesting. It definitely comes up among grad students and profs in other departments.

To the folks whose kids are considering UofC — there are other ways out of Hyde Park than the El. You can take a campus shuttle or free bus to the eastern side of Hyde Park and then catch the #6 which runs express to the Loop, then hop on the El there. It does feel safer to do that coming and going, especially when alone.

Most students I know who get out of HP use Uber or Lyft these days, but yes, the busses and Metra used to be the more popular choices than the El. To get from that green line stop to campus housing is a bit of a trek and especially if you're coming during off hours it involves walking through a dark park that borders some rougher -- but improving -- areas.

Anyway, I'm curious about the departments. The people I know are mostly in the social sciences. Not disagreeing, just curious.

[Anonymous]

University of Chicago shills are in this thread. Their talking points are transparent.

Trying to intimidate us; it's racist to want to avoid places with violent crime 2x 3x 4x 5x the national average, it's actually racist to even talk about urban crime. What we should be talking about is urban poverty and feeling sorry for the criminals who wouldn't think twice about squeezing the trigger on our teens for their iPhone, parka or merely a $20 bill in their wallet.

And for some reason they always lie about how the south side campus is so far from downtown. Google Maps says to go from the campus book store to Hancock Tower on Michigan Ave (Magnificent Mile retail) a college kid would have to be on public transport for upwards of 1 hr 4 min. These routes are so dangerous because one, the stations are technically off campus, so it requires walking and being a sitting duck waiting for the bus or train. And two, the crowds on N/S bound public transport are from war zone neighborhoods around the college. So to and from you're a sitting duck in the bus or train with potential violent criminals who won't think twice about assaulting you and worse. They can obviously also follow you off at the station.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hyde Park is the neighborhood around campus. It is gorgeous and it is safe-ish. The problem is that the neighborhoods around Hyde Park and campus are poor and have a lot of crime.

Campus is actually in two neighborhoods, both Hyde Park and Woodlawn, with Woodlawn being the furthest thing from safe. And yes, neighboring neighborhoods are even worse. And to get downtown you have to use public transport with and in direct proximity to criminals. And of course if you’re a criminal looking for easy convenient marks, are you going to go all the way downtown or target rich college kids a few blocks away?

This is horribly sad, but...I have spent many a time taking the El and the bus to downtown from Hyde Park without any issue. "black people" =/= criminals

U-Chicago is going to have to deal with this in a meaningful way if they want to continue to attract applicants in the same numbers as recent years.

Would you want to send your college kid to a city where 90+ people murdered in one weekend??

Yes, my kid is applying there.

I grew up in DC back in the 80's and 90's when shootings and murders like this were commonplace.

The difference is that Georgetown wasn’t next door to SE in the 80s or 90s, which is what it’s like for U. Chicago.

Good God, the NIMBY-ness is this thread is just absurd.

I think you mean racism.

I mean, yeah, but NIMBY-ness itself is often rooted in racism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hyde Park is the neighborhood around campus. It is gorgeous and it is safe-ish. The problem is that the neighborhoods around Hyde Park and campus are poor and have a lot of crime.

Campus is actually in two neighborhoods, both Hyde Park and Woodlawn, with Woodlawn being the furthest thing from safe. And yes, neighboring neighborhoods are even worse. And to get downtown you have to use public transport with and in direct proximity to criminals. And of course if you’re a criminal looking for easy convenient marks, are you going to go all the way downtown or target rich college kids a few blocks away?

This is horribly sad, but...I have spent many a time taking the El and the bus to downtown from Hyde Park without any issue. "black people" =/= criminals

U-Chicago is going to have to deal with this in a meaningful way if they want to continue to attract applicants in the same numbers as recent years.

Would you want to send your college kid to a city where 90+ people murdered in one weekend??

Yes, my kid is applying there.

I grew up in DC back in the 80's and 90's when shootings and murders like this were commonplace.

The difference is that Georgetown wasn’t next door to SE in the 80s or 90s, which is what it’s like for U. Chicago.

Good God, the NIMBY-ness is this thread is just absurd.

I think you mean racism.

I mean, yeah, but NIMBY-ness itself is often rooted in racism.

No it is rooted in keeping my loved ones safe. It is not about my neighbors skin color, it is whether or not their values align with mine. Sick of people like you who choose to divide us based on our skin tones. Trust me when I say black people’s care about the safety of their neighborhood too.

[Anonymous]

Crime is so bad on and around campus, undergraduate parents are moving their child over 10 miles north of campus into the trendy Lincoln Park neighborhood. And these parents claim the city's and University's response to violent crime is akin to theater.

My son is a 3rd-year at UChicago. The crime on and around campus has gotten so bad that he is choosing to live near Lincoln Park and drive to campus instead of securing housing around campus with hopes of it being a safer existence.

Also, note that all of the patroling that you will hear about is largely performed by UChicago security officers. The security officers' only responsibility is to witness and document the crime. They are specifically not to attempt to disrupt the crime or assist the victim other than to call the real UChicago police.

[Anonymous]

Student:

A few weeks ago, I got robbed and car jacked at gun point in broad daylight. Two days later, my friend got robbed at gun point (albeit at night), walking with her boyfriend. Excluding myself, I have known three people to get mugged in Hyde Park within the last year. It really hinges on a large degree of randomness. I personally believe the police presence is a large crime deterrent; however, we are very close to some rough neighborhoods and it is only natural that some criminals will slip through the cracks and pray on college students. Although I was carjacked during the day, for obvious reasons, I don’t feel safe in Hyde Park at night. In my personal experience, Hyde Park is not as safe as people and the university may portray it to be. Be mindful of your surroundings and stay in groups and you should be fine.

[Anonymous]

Here's how 20-year-old Max's life ended, just two weeks after completing his second year.

Max’s family drove 14 hours from Denver, Colorado, to be by his side in the hospital.

His mom, Dr. Rebecca Rivkin, told WGN News the bullet paralyzed Max from the neck down. The prognosis was that he would never walk or eat again, and he’d likely need a ventilator for the rest of his life.

Rivkin said, despite his severe injury and suffering, Max was alert in the hospital. He wanted to know what happened to him and communicated with his family and doctors by blinking — once for yes, twice for no. That’s how Rivkin said Max spelled out a message on a letter board, which she wrote down. “If I have to live like this, pull the plug please. Seriously,” it said.

Max was taken off life support Sunday.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:University of Chicago shills are in this thread. Their talking points are transparent.

Trying to intimidate us; it's racist to want to avoid places with violent crime 2x 3x 4x 5x the national average, it's actually racist to even talk about urban crime. What we should be talking about is urban poverty and feeling sorry for the criminals who wouldn't think twice about squeezing the trigger on our teens for their iPhone, parka or merely a $20 bill in their wallet.

And for some reason they always lie about how the south side campus is so far from downtown. Google Maps says to go from the campus book store to Hancock Tower on Michigan Ave (Magnificent Mile retail) a college kid would have to be on public transport for upwards of 1 hr 4 min. These routes are so dangerous because one, the stations are technically off campus, so it requires walking and being a sitting duck waiting for the bus or train. And two, the crowds on N/S bound public transport are from war zone neighborhoods around the college. So to and from you're a sitting duck in the bus or train with potential violent criminals who won't think twice about assaulting you and worse. They can obviously also follow you off at the station.

I take public transportation all.the.time, in Chicago, DC and other places. Just being on public transportation is not inherently dangerous. It is so freakishly suburban-white-bubble to suggest otherwise.

Seriously, just take UC off your kids list. It isn't that hard. But you may want to take Yale off of it as well. And just about every other "urban" school.

[Anonymous]

I went to Northwestern Law and desperately wanted to get a job there and move to Hyde Park, which is gorgeous and affordable. I’d send my kids to either Northwestern or UChicago in a heartbeat.