Gifted but meh student?

[Anonymous]

OP, the teacher and your child have a personality conflict. The problem is it is making your child hate learning, which is terrible! Pull him out and put him in a Montessori setting for a few years. He might be a bit behind in Montessori but he will catch up and learn the organization skills in the process.

The teacher sounds unskilled if she can't deal with a child who rolls their eyes. That is 1st year idiocy. When I was in teacher training my mentor teacher and I fought because she put a young man in the lowest spelling group to teach him a lesson because she called him sloppy
He had tested high in all his tests but she didn't like him because she found him disruptive and he rushed that his work
So teachers can be vindici to students they don't like
Unfortunately your son has such a teacher.

[Anonymous]

Does she offer activities for kids to do when they are done with their work? DS doesn’t get additional instruction when he is done but has a list of allowed activities that he choose from. He knows that when he completes his task he can choose something else to do quietly. Does your sons Teacher have something like that?

Ask the Teacher to send home rushed or incomplete work and have him finish at home. Hopefully the message sinks in that he cannot simply skip the work. He needs to know that you think it is important that he completes his work properly.

I would also tell your son that he is doing boring, easy work because he is choosing not to show his Teacher that he can do better then that. When he rushes through work, or tests, he might get to the games faster but he ends up doing work that is boring. He has to show everyone that he knows the material to move onto more challenging work.

It sounds like it is not a great student/ Teacher fit and that sucks. It also sounds like your kid is being stubborn and it is hurting him. Kids, and adults, can do stupid things. But he is not helping himself by rushing to play.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, the teacher and your child have a personality conflict. The problem is it is making your child hate learning, which is terrible! Pull him out and put him in a Montessori setting for a few years. He might be a bit behind in Montessori but he will catch up and learn the organization skills in the process.

The teacher sounds unskilled if she can't deal with a child who rolls their eyes. That is 1st year idiocy. When I was in teacher training my mentor teacher and I fought because she put a young man in the lowest spelling group to teach him a lesson because she called him sloppy
He had tested high in all his tests but she didn't like him because she found him disruptive and he rushed that his work
So teachers can be vindici to students they don't like
Unfortunately your son has such a teacher.

It doesn't make sense to just pull him out without looking further. OP, have you had a conversation with him? Not about how his behavior isn't good, but more gentle and trying to get at why he chooses not to do what his teacher and other kids do. I think you have to listen to him whenever he is willing to talk (2nd graders sometimes are not in the mood, esp. after coming home from school). I think it would help to know exactly what he thinks about it, and may point to where the problem is (perhaps it is truly a personality conflict with his teacher as PP mentioned, but it may also not be that at all). If the teacher feels he's not putting in any effort, she is right in reserving more advanced material unless he can prove that he is truly bored. If you can convince (not force) through a discussion with him what the teacher expects, and listen for how he responds and whether he agrees with you that he should improve, etc. For example, my 2nd grader is very expressive and honest but if he feels he was wronged in some way, he'll shut off and almost hold a grudge unless I sit him down and calmly explain things logically from both sides. When I do that he feels better and agrees with me. You may also get a better idea of how other kids are doing in class as well when he talks to you. Sometimes they're in the mood to talk what happens with other kids, etc, down to the details if you catch him at the right time.

I think he should understand that he needs to show his teacher that he can easily handle whatever work he is skipping. But if he doesn't (or he tries and his teacher refuses to accept giving him something more), you'll have to work with him at home a few times during the week. As an experiment, you can try emulating the teacher (give him some work, maybe mix in some challenging stuff) and see if he follows your directions (in terms of doing it), and how well he does overall. You're looking to see if he behaves the same way as school, or if he's fine and listens and does the work. That may also point to a personality conflict, or some other dynamic that only happens during class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the teacher and your child have a personality conflict. The problem is it is making your child hate learning, which is terrible! Pull him out and put him in a Montessori setting for a few years. He might be a bit behind in Montessori but he will catch up and learn the organization skills in the process.

The teacher sounds unskilled if she can't deal with a child who rolls their eyes. That is 1st year idiocy. When I was in teacher training my mentor teacher and I fought because she put a young man in the lowest spelling group to teach him a lesson because she called him sloppy
He had tested high in all his tests but she didn't like him because she found him disruptive and he rushed that his work
So teachers can be vindici to students they don't like
Unfortunately your son has such a teacher.

It doesn't make sense to just pull him out without looking further. OP, have you had a conversation with him? Not about how his behavior isn't good, but more gentle and trying to get at why he chooses not to do what his teacher and other kids do. I think you have to listen to him whenever he is willing to talk (2nd graders sometimes are not in the mood, esp. after coming home from school). I think it would help to know exactly what he thinks about it, and may point to where the problem is (perhaps it is truly a personality conflict with his teacher as PP mentioned, but it may also not be that at all). If the teacher feels he's not putting in any effort, she is right in reserving more advanced material unless he can prove that he is truly bored. If you can convince (not force) through a discussion with him what the teacher expects, and listen for how he responds and whether he agrees with you that he should improve, etc. For example, my 2nd grader is very expressive and honest but if he feels he was wronged in some way, he'll shut off and almost hold a grudge unless I sit him down and calmly explain things logically from both sides. When I do that he feels better and agrees with me. You may also get a better idea of how other kids are doing in class as well when he talks to you. Sometimes they're in the mood to talk what happens with other kids, etc, down to the details if you catch him at the right time.

I think he should understand that he needs to show his teacher that he can easily handle whatever work he is skipping. But if he doesn't (or he tries and his teacher refuses to accept giving him something more), you'll have to work with him at home a few times during the week. As an experiment, you can try emulating the teacher (give him some work, maybe mix in some challenging stuff) and see if he follows your directions (in terms of doing it), and how well he does overall. You're looking to see if he behaves the same way as school, or if he's fine and listens and does the work. That may also point to a personality conflict, or some other dynamic that only happens during class.

Right? He needs to act like an adult...

Just get through the rest of the year, OP. Whether AAP or general classrooms, 3rd grade will be much more interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Has anyone run into this issue? My son has had issues performing in class this year (though he was fine in K and 1). His second grade teacher has him in an intervention group because his I-ready scores were at the beginning of K level. I asked during the conference about the grade 1 and K iready and she didn't know but was told by her instructional coach that the intervention was a good idea. I asked for the scores and found out that he topped out in first (send of third grade across the board in language arts and well into the second grade in math). I asked my kid and he basically admitted to clicking blindly to get to the games. He does this with his school work as well, rushing through or blowing it off, etc.

I had him tested for ADHD and as part of it he was given a WISC and his FSIQ is 141. He took the COGAT and his total score was 138 with a 144 in verbal and his NNAT was 135. The ADHD testing did not indicate any issue and the psychologist noted that he seemed more engaged in the more difficult tasks

He's in pool and being screened for AAP and we included the WISC. But I imagine the GBRS will be dismal. All of the school work samples we were given did not reflect any sort of "Critical" or "Creative" thinking. It was just worksheets. My son has never even met or knows who the AART is and he's never mentioned any special lesson beyond going to his intervention group (where he is constantly getting in trouble for goofing off). He complains about the DRA because the books are repetitive and he finds the retelling boring. His teacher says he can talk about the book, how it relates to things he knows or learned about, ask questions and pose theories about the plot, but he is terrible at retelling and she said he rolled his eyes once at her which she found frustrating. I asked if he needed books that were more simple and she said she tried that and it got worst. She said he did better with books that were more challenging, but the school's position is that they don't DRA to exhaustion because of timing so she has no idea where he might truly land. It's frustrating.

I am trying to figure out how to get my kid more engaged in school and don't want to be that parent who blames misbehavior on being bored (We are constantly talking to him about staying on task, trying his best, etc.).

Any advice on how to get my son to take things more seriously?

I have a similar kid. He's now in 8th grade AAP and doing just fine. He still rushes to complete homework so he can do what he wants. Don't hold back on AAP because of that.

Remember, your kid is only a child..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All moms think they kids are "gifted". Your will find a better solution if you stop thinking your kid is "gifted."

Did you read the post? Her kid has an IQ of 141. He is gifted. And even if you don’t like that word, the point is his performance in school does not match his very obvious abilities.

Even gifted people have to take out the trash and clean the dishes. Your kid needs to do what he needs to do to advance in school or they will keep him in the remedial class. Ask the teacher exactly what he is asked in a retelling and rehearse it with him over and over again until he does it right.

[Anonymous]

OP, I can relate. I have a similar kid. He actually does have ADHD and a learning difference along with the high IQ, but knowing that doesn't make it easier! I ended up homeschooling him and then putting him in a private. He is a kid with true intrinsic motivation--left on his own, he will research his interests and read and write all day long. He was driven to depression (not exaggerating) by public school. Granted, a big part of this negative experience was the lack of support for the LD but a HUGE part was lack of interesting material on the other side.

As for AAP, I have two other kids in AAP (your typical NOVA "above average" kids... not what we used to call gifted). They enjoy school well enough, mostly for social reasons, and are doing fine. I'll concede that AAP at our school has more variety of approaches and assignments than Gen Ed but it has no lack of worksheets. It probably has even more because they are moving faster in math and have to drill it somehow.

[Anonymous]

The WISC measures only a very narrow idea of intelligence. I’ve seen so many kids with high IQs not perform brilliantly at all in school and kids with average IQs get into Ivy League colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, the teacher and your child have a personality conflict. The problem is it is making your child hate learning, which is terrible! Pull him out and put him in a Montessori setting for a few years. He might be a bit behind in Montessori but he will catch up and learn the organization skills in the process.

The teacher sounds unskilled if she can't deal with a child who rolls their eyes. That is 1st year idiocy. When I was in teacher training my mentor teacher and I fought because she put a young man in the lowest spelling group to teach him a lesson because she called him sloppy
He had tested high in all his tests but she didn't like him because she found him disruptive and he rushed that his work
So teachers can be vindici to students they don't like
Unfortunately your son has such a teacher.

It doesn't make sense to just pull him out without looking further. OP, have you had a conversation with him? Not about how his behavior isn't good, but more gentle and trying to get at why he chooses not to do what his teacher and other kids do. I think you have to listen to him whenever he is willing to talk (2nd graders sometimes are not in the mood, esp. after coming home from school). I think it would help to know exactly what he thinks about it, and may point to where the problem is (perhaps it is truly a personality conflict with his teacher as PP mentioned, but it may also not be that at all). If the teacher feels he's not putting in any effort, she is right in reserving more advanced material unless he can prove that he is truly bored. If you can convince (not force) through a discussion with him what the teacher expects, and listen for how he responds and whether he agrees with you that he should improve, etc. For example, my 2nd grader is very expressive and honest but if he feels he was wronged in some way, he'll shut off and almost hold a grudge unless I sit him down and calmly explain things logically from both sides. When I do that he feels better and agrees with me. You may also get a better idea of how other kids are doing in class as well when he talks to you. Sometimes they're in the mood to talk what happens with other kids, etc, down to the details if you catch him at the right time.

I think he should understand that he needs to show his teacher that he can easily handle whatever work he is skipping. But if he doesn't (or he tries and his teacher refuses to accept giving him something more), you'll have to work with him at home a few times during the week. As an experiment, you can try emulating the teacher (give him some work, maybe mix in some challenging stuff) and see if he follows your directions (in terms of doing it), and how well he does overall. You're looking to see if he behaves the same way as school, or if he's fine and listens and does the work. That may also point to a personality conflict, or some other dynamic that only happens during class.

Right? He needs to act like an adult...

Just get through the rest of the year, OP. Whether AAP or general classrooms, 3rd grade will be much more interesting.

NP. I'm sorry, but did you just say a child needs to act like an adult? That is an attitude that really messes kids up. He is NOT a short adult.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All moms think they kids are "gifted". Your will find a better solution if you stop thinking your kid is "gifted."

I'm sorry that you don't get it. If you have a "gifted" child, you will understand how difficult it is to raise one.

I don't know about that. My three "gifted" kids were gifted enough to attend college free. They still had to work hard. Why do you find it hard to raise your gifted kid? We had no issues whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All moms think they kids are "gifted". Your will find a better solution if you stop thinking your kid is "gifted."

I'm sorry that you don't get it. If you have a "gifted" child, you will understand how difficult it is to raise one.

I don't know about that. My three "gifted" kids were gifted enough to attend college free. They still had to work hard. Why do you find it hard to raise your gifted kid? We had no issues whatsoever.

That is not fair. Different kids have different temperaments. Good for you for being a super great parent with all three of your kids or getting lucky enough to have three kids that were near perfect.

We have been lucky so far. DS has been easy but I am expecting that to change at any moment because kids are kids and most kids have rough spots were things are not easy for them or their parents. I will be thrilled if he gets through school without issues and we can say that we had no issues.

There are plenty of kids I know who are good kids who have their rough spots. There are a few kids I know who I would say are easy. There are fewer kids I know who I want to avoid because I think they are seriously problematic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All moms think they kids are "gifted". Your will find a better solution if you stop thinking your kid is "gifted."

I'm sorry that you don't get it. If you have a "gifted" child, you will understand how difficult it is to raise one.

I don't know about that. My three "gifted" kids were gifted enough to attend college free. They still had to work hard. Why do you find it hard to raise your gifted kid? We had no issues whatsoever.

That is not fair. Different kids have different temperaments. Good for you for being a super great parent with all three of your kids or getting lucky enough to have three kids that were near perfect.

We have been lucky so far. DS has been easy but I am expecting that to change at any moment because kids are kids and most kids have rough spots were things are not easy for them or their parents. I will be thrilled if he gets through school without issues and we can say that we had no issues.

There are plenty of kids I know who are good kids who have their rough spots. There are a few kids I know who I would say are easy. There are fewer kids I know who I want to avoid because I think they are seriously problematic.

Right. Nothing to do with being gifted. Gifted doesn’t correlate with difficult.

[Anonymous]

No but gifted kids can be easy or challenging or pains in the ass, just like kids who are not gifted. Kids are kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
There are plenty of kids I know who are good kids who have their rough spots. There are a few kids I know who I would say are easy. There are fewer kids I know who I want to avoid because I think they are seriously problematic.

Right. Nothing to do with being gifted. Gifted doesn’t correlate with difficult.

Sure, but gifted per WISC + difficult personality in school correlates with undiagnosed issues like ADHD, anxiety, high functioning Autism, or various LDs. Most of these are more common in the gifted population as well. Even if there are no undiagnosed issues, and the kid really is bored and immature, the best solution would be to place him in a more engaging environment. Yes, he will eventually need to learn to handle boredom, but I don't think it's worth it to hammer that point home when the kid is still pretty young.

[Anonymous]

OP here. After some very helpful posts, this thread has turned into what I feared.

Listen, I do not, in any way, excuse my kid's behavior. If anything, I have worked hard to try to get the source of the issue, try to teach him that effort is important, and try to work with the school and his teacher to reach him as a learner. I've asked for help in coming up with incentive systems from his teacher and she has shut down that idea (her words were: unless there's an IEP or 504, she is not going to take on anything additional because there is no legitimate reason to give him "special" support). I will be blunt and admit there's probably a fit issue, my son probably isn't the best behaved student, and there are concrete limitations in the day and demands on this teacher to expect anything more than what's required.

I have tried using incentives at home, but there's a break between when I ask my son about his day and when I see evidence of what he actually does. I don't see assessments for weeks. I don't see daily writing work until the end of a marking period. I don't even see anything beyond an interim and report card from the teacher so if I wasn't piecing together information from papers that were graded weeks ago, I would basically only have interims and report cards (which are vague) to tease out what the issue is.

I have tried to put together some supports like computer games he likes. So, if I see a completed worksheet with effort, he gets ten minutes. It is slow going because it takes him a while to understand that something he did three weeks ago will impact whether or not he gets an award. Because he's 7.

I hate, hate the impression that I am throwing my hands up and claiming my child is a gifted genius who's bored with school and it's the school's fault. I am doing everything I can to help my son own his education and be driven to learn intrinsically. Do I think his school is being helpful? Not terribly. But it is what it is.

And my guess reading this board is that my kid will likely not end up in AAP without some sort of appeal on my part due to his GBRS being terrible. I may be surprised, but based on what I see, I have serious doubts. We'll cross that bridge in April, I guess.