Foreign Universities...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. (I was the banlieues/Fonseca poster.) Family socio-economic status and background have everything to do with performance on standardized tests. There is substantial research to document this. The xenophobic (warped view of US, denial of bad treatment of Roma and Arabs) European PP is turning a blind eye to institutionalized racism.

"family background" = genes + behavioral norms. so, of course they correlate with standardized tests, duh. though, it is actually americans who are obsessed with tests of ability. most entrance exams in european colleges test knowledge, not smarts.

So thanks, you concede the family background point. We can agree, contrary to your previous post, that family background (parents' ability to help with the Algebra homework, the number of words used at home) is key to the accumulation of knowledge (it's distinct from ability) and hence to a child's performance on tests of knowledge. It follows that arabs in the Paris ghettos face institutional barriers to passing these crucial tests that determine whether they will go to college. Thanks for acknowledging that.

Yet your latest twisty-turn is plain stupid: The SAT, ACT and the APs are all tests of knowledge, not IQ. You need to stop posting, because you're very ignorant.

Different PP here. You're taking things to absurd extremes. Yes, socioeconomic factors matter, as much as genetics. BUT, so does individual effort. AND, what matters in a meritocracy is how people actually perform, not all the potential historical/ social/ religious/ personal baggage they bring into the equation.

As shown before in this thread, this approach seems to lead to significantly higher social mobility in Europe than in the US. So, if you want to talk and talk, the American approach is indeed great. If you want to actually improve people's lives, especially for those at the bottom half, then the European approach seems to make more sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

The riots were about criminal elements defending their territory from the police. The were certainly not about entrance exams being too hard.

Yes, Arab immigrants as a group are not equally competitive, but as individuals they are. There are many examples of Arab immigrants having great success in France. You are espousing a twisted American idea that every arbitrarily defined group is supposed to be "represented" at every institution in direct proportion to its presence in the population. If they are not, the someone is to blame and something needs to be "fixed".

And as a matter fact, systems that track kids do in fact result in more equal societies. Not because of tracking itself, but because they are more equal, period. They might not be as equal in terms of distributing worthless diplomas but that's because they allocate their resources more prudently. A vast majority of people have no use of college education, none. The time of those who do not beong to college is better spent learning jobs they will actually perform.

This is exactly the attitude that Americans reject. We realize that institutional failures can be responsible for differential performance among groups. I think it is foolish to think that arab immigrants are not disenfranchised in French society. America has a lot of issues with equality in our society, but we recognize that not everyone fits the mold and that the ability that you test in at the middle school level can have a lot to do with the circumstances with which you were brought up, not your innate talents.

This is because your institutions in fact forbade women from studying in many schools until recently. Americans also had separate restrooms for Blacks and various other rules about where they were allowed. In most of Europe, nothing like those "institutional impediments" ever existed.

You do realize that Jim Crow laws existed only in part of the United States - do you really[b] want to talk about the treatment of minorities in parts of Europe? Trust me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't call it more equitable. Most colleges/ universities in the U.S. do not practice affirmative action. Those that do do not have quotas, merely a consideration of different factors that they have decided are desirable and in short supply at their university. So a Historically Black College may give some preference to a white student who is applying while Dartmouth may give preference to a Navajo applicant and a small, liberal arts school in Minnesota or Iowa may give preference to male applicants or Asian-Americans. Oh, and many of these schools give preference on SES, first-generation college student and geographic diversity. Of course, none of these preferences is anywhere as high as being able to catch a football at some universities but I digress...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

[Anonymous]

Interesting discussion on reddit about differences in treatment of blacks/African Americans in UK vs. US:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1seelc/black_people_of_reddit_who_have_spent_time_in/

key takeaway:
The crazy thing is, that america seems to think it's integrated but to someone who comes from London - It's fucking not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Interesting discussion on reddit about differences in treatment of blacks/African Americans in UK vs. US:

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/1seelc/black_people_of_reddit_who_have_spent_time_in/

key takeaway:
The crazy thing is, that america seems to think it's integrated but to someone who comes from London - It's fucking not.

Apples & Oranges - the % of "black" persons in the UK is 3% - about 2/3 the % of Swedish Americans in the United States - there is no geographic area in the UK that is majority black.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.

Is the UK the only country in Europe?

And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.

Is the UK the only country in Europe?

And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.

Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.

Is the UK the only country in Europe?

And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.

Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.

If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."

And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.

Whiner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.

Is the UK the only country in Europe?

And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.

Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.

If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."

And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.

Whiner.

Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".

Ignoramus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.

Is the UK the only country in Europe?

And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.

Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.

Plus, it's hard to get a spot at British universities. It's based on testing, and if you don't come from a middle class background and/or attended crappy schools, it's more difficult.

Are you the European who claims to have attended Harvard (but keeps making fundamental mistakes about US colleges) and who loves bashing Americans and American universities? I don't think it's perfect here, by any means. But you need a new hobby: your posts here make you look small, petulant, and stupid.

If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."

And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.

Whiner.

Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".

Ignoramus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Race based affirmative action is considered unlawful in Europe, but there are SES preferences.

This is more equitable.

the ones I know about do not ask for parents income

Exactly. European universities are so affordable that, as a general rule, parents' income is not a factor. Now what about Asia Pac? It seems this thread has not focused enough on universities in Singapore, Korea, China, Australia, which are going to become more and more important.

UK universities can charge up to £9,000. At $1.60 to the pound, that's hardly affordable for low income families.

Is the UK the only country in Europe?

And, even your example is misleading. Until last year the maximum tuition was like 3,000 pounds, now increased due to budget problems. A joke by American standards.

Okay, I'll try the "I want to pay tuition at last year's rate" line and let you know how that works.

If that doesn't work, try the "England is not the only country in Europe."

And I say England because universities in Scotland and Wales are still essentially free.

Whiner.

Funny. My Scottish cousins were just over here, and they werre complaining about the cost of university in Scotland. My Scottish cousins are middle class and most have PhDs. Sure, it's low in Scotland, but it's not "essentially free".

Ignoramus.

PS, it's hard to get a spot at British universities. It's based on testing, and if you don't come from a middle class background and/or attended crappy schools, it's more difficult.

Newsflash: Scotland and Wales aren't the rest of Europe, either.

Are you the European who claims to have attended Harvard (but keeps making fundamental mistakes about US colleges) and who loves bashing Americans and American universities? I don't think it's perfect here, by any means. But you need a new hobby: your posts here make you look small, petulant, and stupid.