Country Club Questions

[Anonymous]

A financial sponsor to cover your bills...just in case?
Wow. That really tilts things toward the legacies!

[Anonymous]

Ditto 9:26/10:43. I am a legacy at a D.C area country club. I grew up at the club and now spend a good portion of my time there on weekends. While being a member of a CC (especially certain CCs) may seem prestigious, once you are in it isn't much more than a place to eat, golf, play tennis and swim. Yes, there are several families from my son's school that belong and it is great to hang out with them at the pool, we only socialize with them more during the summer season and they aren't the families we are closest too. I will also agree with 9:26/10:43 that discussing business is looked down on. Our CC is a great place for H to bring clients for a round of golf and a drink, but we don't discuss business with other members. I promise you that if you visited the grill or swimming pool at a country club it wouldn't feel too different from your neighborhood pool or restaurant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
(BTW, I know discrimination when I see it, I am a partner at a law firm and bump my head up against the glass ceiling on a daily basis. Very interesting that more than 50% of new associates are women, but only 15-20% of the partners are women at most law firms, but I digress.)

I'm curious. If you are already a partner, what glass ceiling do you bump against? Are there higher positions that are not accessible to women at the law firm?

Wow, such an uninformed question. I also work at a law firm (an associate) and I think that the female partners have it harder than the associates. Partnership is the start of the journey, not the end. You to to generate and keep business and unless you are in a "lock-step" firm your earning are tied to those efforts.

[Anonymous]

to the PP, I believe that why it is called a question. I'm sure you ask "uninformed" questions about things out of your ken all the time. I'm a physician and if I said, "wow, what an uninformed question" to everyone who asked me what I consider obvious questions about medicine, I'd be blue in the face and have no friends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Burning Tree is one of the few clubs left that does not admit women. Its for serious male golfers and is getting rather geriatric I hear (heh heh).

There are a number of minority members (not enough, to be sure). And certainly a huge mix of Catholic and Jewish members.

Gee, how does any institution/organization openly discriminate in this age of discrimination and lawsuits?

Are Catholics still considered a "minority" and a characteristic to weigh in the "qualifications" of an applicant?

Burning Tree is completely private and can do what it wants -- but it is pretty pathetic. I drove through the grounds last year and saw a bunch of fat old white men, WITHOUT shirts, playing golf. Pretty funny. I don't think many young men are joining -- why do it; no pool or tennis; spouses can't even go in the restaurant and definitely not family friendly. And how many wives would let their husbands join . .

On your second comment, I am the poster and no, I don't consider Catholics a minority (I am one). I was making the point that at one time, clubs were pretty divided by religion. Jews were definitely excluded years ago from some clubs, which one reason why Woodmont was created (it is well over 90% Jewish today).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe I am in denial. I would love for other Congressional members to weigh in if I am wrong . . .

Yes, you are in denial. By there very definition, country clubs and other membership clubs are designed and intended to convey status.

For heaven's sake, their websites don't even have information about how to become a member on them.

That said, I am finding this thread oddly fascinating.

So, how are these various clubs with regard to admitting gay and lesbian people and their families?

I admit I may be in denial (and of course know that there are members at Congressional who are probably assholes/racists/homophobes; there are after all, more than 1000 members). But with all due respect, if you aren't a member, how do you know what the people are like.

What exactly is the social status you thinks clubs convey? What does it buy you? Certain types of friends that you won't otherwise have from your work, neighborhood, school? Admission into elite schools? I don't get it.

It may have been that historically this was the purpose of clubs, but not buying that this is the case anymore. Maybe it is a generational thing. It goes back to the point that people think members have secret meetings and talk about how fabulous they are and pat each other on the back.

We use Congressional to play golf, use the pool and restaurants, period. I don't go there with the purpose of gaining admission to some exclusive group of people. I have better things to do with my time.

Since we all have so much time on our hands (baby is sleeping), I will also make a point about business contacts, since someone mentioned it above. Yes, clubs are a great place to bring/impress clients. So, if you have a client who likes to play golf, it is a good thing and probably helps build business to bring them to your club. You can certainly do a lot of schmoozing in the 5 hours that it takes to play golf.

But it not generally the case that joining a club will help you GET clients who are members, in my opnion. At least at Congressional, it is considered impolite/uncool to discuss business at the club. In fact, you are prohibited from conducting business on the grounds (unless you rent one of the conference rooms). We are reminded of that all the time (of course, people break the rule and it is not always clear what is conducting business v. just talking about business).

I know that when I play golf, we often don't know what the other people in our group do until well near the end of the round (and maybe not even then). In other words, people don't say. "Hi, and am John Doe and the CEO of Marriot." That would be considered crass.

People want to enjoy themselves, not be pitched for work. It would probably even backfire if you approached a member and asked for business.

Also, there are so many members, what are the chances that you are going to randomly meet up with someone who is in your field and actually in the position to help you out, or give you business.

That said, if you are constantly running into/being paired up with someone who is in your field, of course you will become friendly and may decide to do business together, or they may give you advice or refer you to someone who can help you. But if someone thinks joining a club (and spending $100K) is going to help them build his/her business with members, they are crazy.

On the issue of no information on the website, I agree that is strange and was frustrating to me when i wasn't a member. But I suppose b/c you need someone to sponsor you, there is no need to put on the website; you just ask your friend and they give you the information. And yes, I understand that the fact that you need a current member to sponsor you does mean there is some self-selection.

I don't think anyone gives any thought to whether a member is gay/lesbian. I am sure there are many members who have gay/lesbian friends and who would act as a sponsor -- then the process described above. Have you tried it?

I think the bottom line is that people think that all club members must be white and conservative assholes (not that all conservatives are assholes). I am a liberal and so are many people I know at the club. We are a new generation, thank god. (BTW, I know discrimination when I see it, I am a partner at a law firm and bump my head up against the glass ceiling on a daily basis. Very interesting that more than 50% of new associates are women, but only 15-20% of the partners are women at most law firms, but I digress.)

So if it is all so ordinary and decidedly unfancy - why the heck did you pay 100K to join a CC when you could go to your neighborhood pool, play tennis on the Y courts (not clay, I know), and play golf on one of the public courses in the area? I'm just not buying it.

[Anonymous]

Maybe it's just nicer and more convenient, and they have friends who belong there, and they can afford it. Not so mysterious.

[Anonymous]

[

So if it is all so ordinary and decidedly unfancy - why the heck did you pay 100K to join a CC when you could go to your neighborhood pool, play tennis on the Y courts (not clay, I know), and play golf on one of the public courses in the area? I'm just not buying it.

I didn't say it wasn't fancy or have great perks. My point was that I don't think belonging means I am part of some selective group or that it conveys some kind of social status, as some of the original posts were implying that it does. Congressional has one of the best golf courses in the world, so yes, we want to play there and not on a public course.

[Anonymous]

People like to be surrounded by beauty -- beautiful people, beautiful facilities, beautiful grounds. It's a natural human instinct. Not that that justifies CC membership, in my opinion. The exterior beauty is not worth the troublingly ugly internal realities of exclusivity and prejudice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:[

So if it is all so ordinary and decidedly unfancy - why the heck did you pay 100K to join a CC when you could go to your neighborhood pool, play tennis on the Y courts (not clay, I know), and play golf on one of the public courses in the area? I'm just not buying it.

I didn't say it wasn't fancy or have great perks. My point was that I don't think belonging means I am part of some selective group or that it conveys some kind of social status, as some of the original posts were implying that it does. Congressional has one of the best golf courses in the world, so yes, we want to play there and not on a public course.

I think the ability and willingness to pay 100k to join a club most certainly conveys a certain select social status, and also conveys the desire to be counted within a certain social group. It is more than playing on a good golf course.

[Anonymous]

My husband is an avid golfer. If we had 100K sitting around he'd join Congressional in a heartbeat. I used to be totally opposed to country clubs until I met DH and learned more about golf. Believe me, public courses just don't cut it. It's hard to get a tee time on the weekends, the courses are crowded and it takes forever to finish a round. Plus, most of the decent ones are in the outlying suburbs, inconvenient especially when you have small kids. Congressional has one of the best courses in the world -- something I think perhaps only golfers can appreciate.

If you aren't a golfer, it probably doesn't make sense to join. And I'm sure there are people who join simply for the status. But you can't assume that all members (such as the PP) are like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:kenwood

I would say the 3 C's -- columbia, congressional, chevy chase

Here is a question...I was inquiring to an acquaintance about Congressional Country Club etc... because she had brought it up and she cut me off and said "You should probably consider Chevy Chase Club instead of Congressional." Not sure what this meant but this is a real WASPY type and we are not WASPS so I was wondering if that was it or maybe she doesn't think it is in our price range? Any idea what she meant? I never asked her for advice on other country clubs - however she jumped right in to steer me away from hers.

[Anonymous]

bump

[Anonymous]

I think they're in the same price range. Do you live closer to Chevy? Have more friends there?

[Anonymous]

maybe she thinks you are a real snob. Just kidding, but Chevy Chase club is probably even more exclusive than Congressional (though golf at Congressional can't be beat). They are both in the same price range and both very white.