anybody else completely pissed about maternity leave?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bet anything that many of those women who bitch about unpaid maternity leave are going to spend thousands of dollars on brand new nursery furniture, bottle warmers, and adorable onesies. So no, I don't think those people need to be subsidized. The truly poor, absolutely.

Most people get those as preasents. Grandparents buy the furniture. Some get them used from a sibling

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bet anything that many of those women who bitch about unpaid maternity leave are going to spend thousands of dollars on brand new nursery furniture, bottle warmers, and adorable onesies. So no, I don't think those people need to be subsidized. The truly poor, absolutely.

Most people get those as preasents. Grandparents buy the furniture. Some get them used from a sibling

I do wish maternity benefits were better in this country, particularly for the working class, but I have to agree in spirit with the first part of this post. Anyone watching the thread in the OT forum about fiscal conservatism and DCUM? The OP said that most people she knows making combined HHI of $250k or more are driving fancy cars and living in expensive houses. There is no reason on earth families like that cannot plan a little better for the unpaid time off. The folks on this board are 'shocked' when they learn from their HR reps about their benefits - people who are by and large college-educated and perfectly capable of reading the policies before getting knocked up. The whining is a little annoying.

[Anonymous]

i work for a non-fed, Fortune 100 multinational company based in the US and our maternity benefits are similar. i get 5 weeks short term disability (plus 1 week waiting period) for a vaginal birth at 80% of full pay. c-section would give me 2 more weeks of short term disability.

last year, in anticipation of trying to get pregnant, i chose to pay an extra premium out of each paycheck for short term disability buy-up, which allows me to increase my short term disability by 15% up to 95% of full pay for those 5 weeks. i think this 95% gets taxed similarly to how your normal paycheck would be taxed.

any other time off would come out of my vacation time (1 week already being used for the waiting period) and we're only allowed to roll over an extra 2 weeks each year, or it would be unpaid. so i'm planning on taking only 8 or 9 weeks off total...and hoping my out of town mom can stay with us for a few weeks when i first go back to work.

no idea when i'll even get into a daycare at this point, we're already on all the waiting lists in downtown DC with no fed or law firm priorities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
I do wish maternity benefits were better in this country, particularly for the working class, but I have to agree in spirit with the first part of this post. Anyone watching the thread in the OT forum about fiscal conservatism and DCUM? The OP said that most people she knows making combined HHI of $250k or more are driving fancy cars and living in expensive houses. There is no reason on earth families like that cannot plan a little better for the unpaid time off. The folks on this board are 'shocked' when they learn from their HR reps about their benefits - people who are by and large college-educated and perfectly capable of reading the policies before getting knocked up. The whining is a little annoying.

I posted really early in this thread about getting 2 months unpaid leave, and knowing that was the deal before I got pregnant (and I haven't posted since). I just wanted to point out that, while I think it's shitty, I don't even mind that it's unpaid. Yes, it's my responsibility to figure out how to get by during that time. My only gripe is that it's 2 months. I'd greatly prefer 3, and 4 would be a blessing - even unpaid. My issue is more with the amount of time that employers seem to think is sufficient for new parents to be with their newborns, figuring out a new routine and establishing good breastfeeding and sleeping habits. I do wish we valued the parent-child time more in this country.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I do wish maternity benefits were better in this country, particularly for the working class, but I have to agree in spirit with the first part of this post. Anyone watching the thread in the OT forum about fiscal conservatism and DCUM? The OP said that most people she knows making combined HHI of $250k or more are driving fancy cars and living in expensive houses. There is no reason on earth families like that cannot plan a little better for the unpaid time off. The folks on this board are 'shocked' when they learn from their HR reps about their benefits - people who are by and large college-educated and perfectly capable of reading the policies before getting knocked up. The whining is a little annoying.

I posted really early in this thread about getting 2 months unpaid leave, and knowing that was the deal before I got pregnant (and I haven't posted since). I just wanted to point out that, while I think it's shitty, I don't even mind that it's unpaid. Yes, it's my responsibility to figure out how to get by during that time. My only gripe is that it's 2 months. I'd greatly prefer 3, and 4 would be a blessing - even unpaid. My issue is more with the amount of time that employers seem to think is sufficient for new parents to be with their newborns, figuring out a new routine and establishing good breastfeeding and sleeping habits. I do wish we valued the parent-child time more in this country.

How are you only getting 2 months? Doesn't FMLA guarantee 12 weeks unpaid?

[Anonymous]

Sure I'm pissed about the state of maternity leave, but like a lot of other posters, I'm grateful for what I do get. I switched jobs shortly before finding out I was pregnant with our first child...had I stayed at that small non-profit, I would have been entitled to eight weeks of leave, and I would have had short-term disability. As a Maryland state employee, I was able to take 12 weeks of leave even though I hadn't technically been there long enough to qualify for FMLA. I was able to borrow advance sick leave to help cover the time I was on maternity leave, and between that and the leave I'd accrued, I wound up getting about 2/3 of my pay. This time around, I'll have enough between what I've accrued and what I can borrow to cover my leave with 100 percent pay. As a federal employee, my husband is eligible for FMLA too - he took a few weeks off with our daughter (a week at the beginning and end and several days here and there throughout my leave), and we'll do something similar this time around.

I'd absolutely love to have more time with my newborn, and I'd love it if there was an option for paid leave that didn't burn through my leave, but I also realize that I've got it a lot better than many other women do on this front. I started searching for information on what was "normal" for maternity leave in the US while I was pregnant the first time around and I read a lot of eye opening stories about women going back after eight weeks or six weeks or even less in some cases...I wish maternity leave policies were better for all of us.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I work in HR and can confirm that most private companies in the US (F100/500) the good ones anyway - offer the package you are on. I have recruited from Booz Allen, Accenture, top tier consulting firms and while the % of pay might differ (ie 40% v. 75%) while on disability, most of the time off is exactly what you are seeing. The FMLA does kick in and more or less promises your job back after you return to work - that's really all it does. In the US, work is paramount to anything else. NOTHING made me more angrier when I discovered the waiting period as you did and that I would be paid on disability only at 60% of salary. I have been fuming about it ever since my first a couple years ago
The US if you think about it does not motivate working career driven women to have families - instead our government encourages the opposite. Very ironic I find. I used to be an executive recruiter and the few top women candidates I had at that level either only had 1 child or no children at all. And having 1 usually came very early in age or late in age.
Before I had a baby, I just never realized how much it sucked having kids in this country. I think often that the best and only way to go is to have your own business and set your own rules. Have one spouse work as an employee for benefits and the other as an independent contractor and just make as much money hourly as possible because at the end of the day, as a contractor, you can save a lot on taxes. That's what my husband/I do. Esp. with a mortgage, you really do make out at the end of the year on refunds as a corp.
Makes you nuts I know but know you are not alone!!!
Best wishes to you!
Good luck!!

I totally agree, esp the bolded part. It *is* ironic; our laws do not support working women to have children/babies AT ALL, yet we have one of the largest women workforces and professional women workforces in the world, *and* we have a high birthrate, too (one of the highest of all 'industrial' nations) - So I don't know what conclusion to draw from that: maybe that American women are incredibly resilient and hardworking!
In other (f.e.European) nations birthrates had dropped dramatically in the past, when the conditions were that bad - which then caused the governments to impose more family friendly laws - children are the treasure of a nation...

[Anonymous]

Justify that statistic please.

Your argument is completely specious even if you had a source- I have no desire to pay higher taxes for two wars that I didn't start but I still pay. I've no desire to pay more to bail out banks that made loans to people who owe too much on their houses but I do. You make the personal choice to drive - why should I who don't drive pay for taxes for roads I don't use so you can drive on them?

Finally- can you take an 80% pay cut and still get by?

PP, you took the words right out of my mouth in response to the other PP you responded to. Every time someone suggests a change, the response is: but your taxes will go up by an astronomical amount! Yeah, I can pick out a hundred things I'm paying for or subsidizing with my taxes that I wish I didn't have to, but almost everyone has a family!

Also this kind of argumentation (made by the PP you responded to) reminds me so much of when they used to say: "There is no way we can ever ban smoking in restaurants! All restaurants will go out of business!" And see what happened?

[Anonymous]

I think you may find that the demographic of the birth rates are skewed such that the birth rate for working women is much lower.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I do wish maternity benefits were better in this country, particularly for the working class, but I have to agree in spirit with the first part of this post. Anyone watching the thread in the OT forum about fiscal conservatism and DCUM? The OP said that most people she knows making combined HHI of $250k or more are driving fancy cars and living in expensive houses. There is no reason on earth families like that cannot plan a little better for the unpaid time off. The folks on this board are 'shocked' when they learn from their HR reps about their benefits - people who are by and large college-educated and perfectly capable of reading the policies before getting knocked up. The whining is a little annoying.

I posted really early in this thread about getting 2 months unpaid leave, and knowing that was the deal before I got pregnant (and I haven't posted since). I just wanted to point out that, while I think it's shitty, I don't even mind that it's unpaid. Yes, it's my responsibility to figure out how to get by during that time. My only gripe is that it's 2 months. I'd greatly prefer 3, and 4 would be a blessing - even unpaid. My issue is more with the amount of time that employers seem to think is sufficient for new parents to be with their newborns, figuring out a new routine and establishing good breastfeeding and sleeping habits. I do wish we valued the parent-child time more in this country.

How are you only getting 2 months? Doesn't FMLA guarantee 12 weeks unpaid?

My company is not large enough to fall under FMLA or the state's version either.

[Anonymous]

There was an NPR article recently about maternity leave policies around the world. Here it is, for anyone who's interested:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/babyproject/2011/08/09/139121410/parental-leave-the-swedes-are-the-most-generous

I think it is sad to look at the interactive map and compare US policies to other developed countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Justify that statistic please.

Your argument is completely specious even if you had a source- I have no desire to pay higher taxes for two wars that I didn't start but I still pay. I've no desire to pay more to bail out banks that made loans to people who owe too much on their houses but I do. You make the personal choice to drive - why should I who don't drive pay for taxes for roads I don't use so you can drive on them?

Finally- can you take an 80% pay cut and still get by?

PP, you took the words right out of my mouth in response to the other PP you responded to. Every time someone suggests a change, the response is: but your taxes will go up by an astronomical amount! Yeah, I can pick out a hundred things I'm paying for or subsidizing with my taxes that I wish I didn't have to, but almost everyone has a family!

Also this kind of argumentation (made by the PP you responded to) reminds me so much of when they used to say: "There is no way we can ever ban smoking in restaurants! All restaurants will go out of business!" And see what happened?

Right now we are pregnant so we think maternity leave is the MOST IMPORTANT THING IN THE WORLD, but it's not something that happens in isolation. Rather, the European approach to maternity leave is indicative of a very different understanding of governance and individual responsibility. Longer maternity leave generally goes hand in hand with things like socialized medicine, big government, and yes, much higher taxes. I'm not saying these things are all bad, just that it's a lot more complicated than arguing over this one particular benefit. I suspect that many of the people who think the government should mandate better maternity leave would not be happy to part with more of their paycheck to subsidize related benefits for other middle-class people who don't plan ahead.

I also think the analogies to other types of spending are inapposite. You may not agree with the way the government is spending on particular things (I certainly don't), but fundamentally the types of spending you mentioned are at least intended to benefit the greater good. It's a lot harder to argue for even the potential wider benefits of subsidized maternity leave for middle-class people in this economy, when the fact is that babies can absolutely be well cared for by someone other than their mother. I'm playing devil's advocate to an extent, but my point is that I don't think maternity leave benefits are as much of a right as things like healthcare, public education, etc.

Also, PP, I'm not sure I follow your smoking-ban analogy. Are you saying that because the smoking ban did not put restaurants out of business as predicted, it is impossible to accurately predict the effects of any proposed legislation of any kind? Or is there something specific about the smoking ban that directly relates to the maternity leave/taxes issue?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I work in VA, so I got the 12 weeks of leave, but NO PAY. My company does not provide any short term disability insurance either. I had to take all my leave and sick time concurrently with my 12 weeks. So, I got paid for about 3 weeks of the 12 weeks b/c I had saved that vacation. If we lived in Denmark we would get 18 months of leave at 80% of your pay, split between both partners. And yet Corporate America says it's too expensive to give women more leave and all the businesses will go under if they do!!

All our taxes will go up 50%. Sorry, this isn't going to happen. Contrary to what politcians spout, we are not a family friendly country. I have no desire to pay higher taxes so you can take off 28 months and be paid for taking care of your own child. This is your personal responsibility not that of society. The American village is already paying more than enough in taxes. Save 80% of your salary for 18 months before you have child and then you can take that much time.

Of course not. Our taxes go to much better uses, such as military spending.

You will be the first one to start screaming if there is any kind of attach on 9'11/11, "Where was our military," won't you. Maternity leave for you or anyone is not a matter of US national security.

Why didn't any of you check on your maternity leave benefits prior to getting pregnant? If you did chec, then you knew, so stop whining and if you didn't check, too bad because now you do know and you will know for the next kid, so you

[Anonymous]

Hit send too early, "you can plan in advance."

[Anonymous]

no, OP. as a fed i have to take leave without pay to stay home with my baby. why do you feel entitled to paid maternity leave?

if it is a national policy, that is one thing - but absent some national policy that requires all employers to give paid maternity leave, i really have little sympathy for folks in the private or public sector who complain about this.