Dartmouth finally publishes their SAT data in the Common Data Set after dropping TO; white enrollment surges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:https://engineering.dartmouth.edu/undergraduate/ab/majors#majors

only authentic engineering major is biomedical engineering. and its probably better to go to johns hopkins or georgia tech since they are tied for #1 since DCUM cares so much about rankings.

the only ABET major they have is bachelor of engineering. I can see why so many people said that they don't have engineering

how many ABET-accredited majors does one need? esp to go off and be an investment banker?

Ha! Laughing bc that's what all the Duke, NU and Vanderbilt kids do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers: are Asian applicants now hooked at Dartmouth?

Affirmative Action ban and test required did not help Asian at all.

Funny because it all started after an Asian kid was shut out and claimed discrimination. That didn’t go as he planned!

(I’m Asian btw )

Oh it did go as planned, this was planned by white people in power who planned to manipulate Asian people. It’s like when MAGA manipulates low income whites into voting against their own best interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something racist is going on. Where are the Asian students?

Historically, Dartmouth has much lower Asian student enrollment than its peers, 20% in last few years are highest in its history.
There are many reasons, location, more LAC like. But, Dartmouth is a bit more conservative than its peers, it's the only Ivies not signing against Trump's policy against colleges last year.

AA ban is good for Asian students, we can see it happens in those STEM focused top schools, but is better for White students, after all, Asian is only 6% of population, and they tend to focus on T20, also, most competitive Asian students are Indian and Chinese, they already are 70% of Asian population in Ivies. But there are many other great schools, for T20-50 school, picture is different.

Asian students can't write good essays explaining why they want to be in a rural/desolate environment or have the right ECs to convince an AO of that (farm; skiing; rural EMT; riflery; mushroom foraging; beekeeping/goat herding; equestrian). It's self-selecting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a Dartmouth freshman. Disclaimer: they're our oldest child so I don't have experience with another current day college and I didn't attend an Ivy or similar school myself.

Admission trends there are hard to pin down. Since our kid enrolled we've heard from half dozen legacy families in our larger circle of friends/coworkers/etc whose kids were rejected for the classes of 2029 and 2030. The perhaps most noteworthy is a friend's child whose parents both attended (and met there), are reasonably active alums, sibling attends, had great grades/scores/etc and yet was ultimately rejected. Got into Hopkins, Duke and Princeton (!) unhooked and attends one of these. This stands out as the most wild of the legacy rejections I personally now know but I could share almost a half dozen more that are almost as noteworthy.

The student body is a real mixed group. You have the children of actual billionaires (at maybe the highest concentration anywhere) and many of multi millionaires. They tend to have graduated at or near the very top of prep or boarding school classes. Bright and well trained. Many of this group are Dartmouth legacies.

Then you have the upper middle or professional class kids who are very smart and typical of what one thinks of as high achieving, Ivy level kids. Decent number of Asians in this group. My own child is in here.

Then you have a lot of kids who frankly aren't very remarkable. Most bring rural/geographic diversity and economic diversity. Many struggle. Since we're talking SAT scores, this group often had SAT scores in the 1400s, even 1300s (my kids knows or knew because apparently at some point in early freshman year this comes out in chatter). Dartmouth currently seems to love admitting this demographic (there are many of them) and views admitting them as being a large part of their current mission. I don't know if this is similar at other Ivies or other top 20s as I don't have another kid in college.

Which brings up the question of what the point of an Ivy is. Is it to educate the best and brightest, regardless of prior opportunity? Or is it to give a top opportunity to kids who will benefit most from it? Dartmouth appears to believe very strongly in the second. However, it's meant that kids like mine (a pretty typical DMV high-achiever) are skating through college and not really being challenged. To be frank, my child has a 4.0 and hasn't worked very hard. They will tell you that their high school cohort was by-in-large brighter than many classmates at college. In this regard it's been disappointing. I'm not sure what the rest of the years will hold. I'd be interested in hearing what other Dartmouth parents think.

Fiction. Somone must have had a bit of time on their hands to jot this down. Sorry mom kids spend zero time discussing these things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The amount of time and attention you are paying to these questions is simply extraordinary. Your children will get their ass kicked at the next level. You have modeled pretty poor thinking in your households.

This is pretty true unfortunately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something racist is going on. Where are the Asian students?

Historically, Dartmouth has much lower Asian student enrollment than its peers, 20% in last few years are highest in its history.
There are many reasons, location, more LAC like. But, Dartmouth is a bit more conservative than its peers, it's the only Ivies not signing against Trump's policy against colleges last year.

AA ban is good for Asian students, we can see it happens in those STEM focused top schools, but is better for White students, after all, Asian is only 6% of population, and they tend to focus on T20, also, most competitive Asian students are Indian and Chinese, they already are 70% of Asian population in Ivies. But there are many other great schools, for T20-50 school, picture is different.

Asian students can't write good essays explaining why they want to be in a rural/desolate environment or have the right ECs to convince an AO of that (farm; skiing; rural EMT; riflery; mushroom foraging; beekeeping/goat herding; equestrian). It's self-selecting.

Ding ding ding.
It's fit.
Shotgunning doesn't work at Dartmouth. Plus, the class is sooo tiny.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the other end of the spectrum, Hopkins saw 50% of their class of 2029 made up of Asian Americans. What gives?

At a guess, high-scoring white kids tend to pick Dartmouth over Hopkins, while high-scoring Asian kids tend to pick Hopkins over Dartmouth.

Also, Dartmouth really focuses on taking kids from the top 10% of their high school class. That might hurt Asian kids, because they tend to be clustered in a small number of high-performing high schools.

Hopkins is famous in taking top 10% of the class. This doesn’t make any sense!

If anything, Hopkins takes a higher percentage of the class that is Top 10% than Dartmouth.

Jhu are 100% top 10% of class, not even MIT.

Most schools do not report so how would you know this?......You wouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers: are Asian applicants now hooked at Dartmouth?

Maybe Asians who normally would go to Dartmouth are getting into better schools now?

+1 my thought, as well. As more and more top colleges are requiring test scores, and as college costs are skyrocketing, I'm thinking more of the high stats Asians are going to

1. cheaper flagships
2. top colleges that offer aid for families making under x amount

I think we are seeing that with a surge in Asian students in schools like Hopkins and other elite schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So SAT's are reverting back to the mean. Not surprising.

We vastly overestimate the number of the top 1% of SAT scorers, especially as you go above 1550.

Superscoring become logarithmically more difficult.

Agree, not surprising at all. With the percent that were test optional the true student body on campus is not that different from previous.
The stronger half of the ivies(HPPY) and Columbia minus the General Studies students will remain median 1510-1520 which is around 99th percentile, with 25% of students 1560 or 99.6% plus.
Those schools plus a few other ones (Stanford Mit Duke and 2-3 more) were that way pre-TO and will be now. The top half of the students did not change much; the lower quartile is what changed.
The ivies especially the top4 remain the schools with the highest concentration top-1% and top 0.3-4%.
Attending colleges where half your peers are 99%ile is difficult! Grad and professional schools know it and consider these places the best preparation.

Schools lower in rank T20-T40 -Tthat never had pre-TO medians of 1470 let alone 1510-1520 using the last preTO datasets from fall 2020 will see a large drop in their score ranges. Considering many had 50% of students TO, no one really believed that half their student body was 99%ile or even 97th.

If you believe that there is a significant difference between those in the 99th percentile and the 98th percentile you are compensating for something.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the other end of the spectrum, Hopkins saw 50% of their class of 2029 made up of Asian Americans. What gives?

At a guess, high-scoring white kids tend to pick Dartmouth over Hopkins, while high-scoring Asian kids tend to pick Hopkins over Dartmouth.

Also, Dartmouth really focuses on taking kids from the top 10% of their high school class. That might hurt Asian kids, because they tend to be clustered in a small number of high-performing high schools.

Hopkins is famous in taking top 10% of the class. This doesn’t make any sense!

If anything, Hopkins takes a higher percentage of the class that is Top 10% than Dartmouth.

Jhu are 100% top 10% of class, not even MIT.

Most schools do not report so how would you know this?......You wouldn't.

Please check https://www.collegetransitions.com/.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something racist is going on. Where are the Asian students?

Historically, Dartmouth has much lower Asian student enrollment than its peers, 20% in last few years are highest in its history.
There are many reasons, location, more LAC like. But, Dartmouth is a bit more conservative than its peers, it's the only Ivies not signing against Trump's policy against colleges last year.

AA ban is good for Asian students, we can see it happens in those STEM focused top schools, but is better for White students, after all, Asian is only 6% of population, and they tend to focus on T20, also, most competitive Asian students are Indian and Chinese, they already are 70% of Asian population in Ivies. But there are many other great schools, for T20-50 school, picture is different.

Asian students can't write good essays explaining why they want to be in a rural/desolate environment or have the right ECs to convince an AO of that (farm; skiing; rural EMT; riflery; mushroom foraging; beekeeping/goat herding; equestrian). It's self-selecting.

Are you joking?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers: are Asian applicants now hooked at Dartmouth?

Maybe Asians who normally would go to Dartmouth are getting into better schools now?

+1 my thought, as well. As more and more top colleges are requiring test scores, and as college costs are skyrocketing, I'm thinking more of the high stats Asians are going to

1. cheaper flagships
2. top colleges that offer aid for families making under x amount

I think we are seeing that with a surge in Asian students in schools like Hopkins and other elite schools.

The Hopkins booster is hitting the pipe hard this morning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Something racist is going on. Where are the Asian students?

Historically, Dartmouth has much lower Asian student enrollment than its peers, 20% in last few years are highest in its history.
There are many reasons, location, more LAC like. But, Dartmouth is a bit more conservative than its peers, it's the only Ivies not signing against Trump's policy against colleges last year.

AA ban is good for Asian students, we can see it happens in those STEM focused top schools, but is better for White students, after all, Asian is only 6% of population, and they tend to focus on T20, also, most competitive Asian students are Indian and Chinese, they already are 70% of Asian population in Ivies. But there are many other great schools, for T20-50 school, picture is different.

Asian students can't write good essays explaining why they want to be in a rural/desolate environment or have the right ECs to convince an AO of that (farm; skiing; rural EMT; riflery; mushroom foraging; beekeeping/goat herding; equestrian). It's self-selecting.

lol +1

-Asian

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dartmouth has always leaned conservative, white frat type. Partly due to location.

I think this is correct. I also think less Asians apply to Dartmouth - but not that much less that the percentage would go down. There is still bias (conscious or not) for white applicants (and against Asian applicants). Dartmouth probably doesn't want the Asian population to grow exponentially as it did on other campuses. There are definitely markers on the application that point to the applicant's race and background.

Dartmouth doesn't have engineering, which limits its appeal for many students, including many Asians. You generally don't see many Asians interested in SLACs in the middle of nowhere, which is essentially what Dartmouth is.

False.

Saying Dartmouth does not have engineering is like saying Brown does not have engineering. The two schools are similar in that respect, yet Brown is now close to 40% Asian.

Dartmouth should still be attractive to many Asian applicants, especially premed students, and also students interested in economics, government, and the humanities. Georgetown does not have engineering at all, and it is close to 30% Asian.

As a PP pointed out, some SLACs have a higher percentage of Asian students than Dartmouth. Carleton and Wellesley are good examples.

So I do not buy the “no engineering” explanation. The numbers look much more like the result of active discrimination, and the surge in white enrollment only reinforces that impression.

Dartmouth has an AB in “engineering science” that us possible in 4 yrs. For the BE, which is the only ABET accredited degree, it takes a 5th year at Dartmouth.
Engineering at Brown may be weak but at least a 4 yr BS in engineering is possible at Brown.

The 5th yr to get a real engineering degree is a major turnoff and yes it disproportionally affects asian applicants

All DC's friends are getting their engineering BS in 4. Oh, and they are also involved in fraternities, and by the way, the greek average GPA is higher than the schoolwide GPA

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Strivers: are Asian applicants now hooked at Dartmouth?

Maybe Asians who normally would go to Dartmouth are getting into better schools now?

+1 my thought, as well. As more and more top colleges are requiring test scores, and as college costs are skyrocketing, I'm thinking more of the high stats Asians are going to

1. cheaper flagships
2. top colleges that offer aid for families making under x amount

I think we are seeing that with a surge in Asian students in schools like Hopkins and other elite schools.

The Hopkins booster is hitting the pipe hard this morning.

? my kids are at state flagships. I'm no JHU booster. I'm just stating what the numbers show. Sorry you don't like the facts.