Charter school funding gap in FY27 budget

[Anonymous]

I checked the SY 25-26 audit data for ya. 45% again.

Look, if charters in the aggregate were going to gain market share, they would be. There are plenty of seats already authorized. Far more seats than are actually filled. So if people wanted to move to charters so badly, there are plenty of charters with room. What's really happening is that some charters are attracting more students and growing, some charters are full and can't grow more, and some charters are losing enrollment. Meanwhile, some DCPS are growing and others are not. Sorry that doesn't fit your narrative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is stuck with its buildings for the long term and has to plan for long term needs and deal with long term maintenance and compliance in 100+ year old buildings. It was a huge struggle for our school just to get the bathrooms made non-awful. GDS takes forever to fix anything. Being part of a larger system has really significant down sides.

Have you been inside Yu Ying, or the new Latin Cooper building? They're as nice as any, certainly way nicer than our Ward 5 Title I.

And of course, why invest in charter buildings when everyone, including the PCSB, is saying the sector is going to contract?

Yes, those buildings are nice--and cost the schools specifcally money to build.

Have you been the Lafayette Elementary? Dorothy Heights? Both absolutely stunning.

Seen the giant project that Whittier is getting for their temporary campus during their remodel? Millions and millions of dollars so those kids don't have to ride a bus to a flex space.

DCPS schools are getting tons spent on their remodels.

Whittier students have been learning in a building that is literally crumbling and the swing space they were going to use is housing Bancroft's PK not being unused. The city refuses to build anything that will even be adequate when the new school opens and has fought parents tooth and nail on every dime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea was that charters wanted to be separate, to have autonomy, and were willing to give up certain economies of scale in order to do so. But it often feels like they want separateness when it serves them and not when it doesn't. And they can't have it both ways.

We'd save millions of dollars each year if we shut down a few low-performing charters. The kids could go to nearby schools that are not any worse. Then everyone can have a raise.

It really, really grates on me that they are constantly hating on the WTU but when the WTU does all the work (and takes the political blowback) to obtain a pay increase, charters show up with their hands out.

This is all nonsense (and curiously maudlin). This was never "the idea." Charter schools were authorized by Congress because DCPS was seen as a failure. Congress wanted to give families in DC a choice between the two systems. People have been voting with their feet, and charters have been stealing market share from DCPS for decades. It's only a matter of time before most kids in this city go to charters, again because parents think it's the better option for their kids. Given that, it makes no sense for the city to actively discriminate against children whose families made a choice Congress said they were free to make. Obviously, all kids should have an equal educational opportunity.

Your argument makes no sense. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Ultimately charters are businesses as well, raise money. Add more at risk students. A typical title 1 school has triple or more than MV.

You are also free to choose a charter. No one is taking that right. There is no law to fund it exactly like DCPS because charters do not have to follow the same rules.

The argument is simply that all kids should be treated equally.

If people don't want to go to your school because it fkcuing sucks, then make it better, but that's a separate issue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS is stuck with its buildings for the long term and has to plan for long term needs and deal with long term maintenance and compliance in 100+ year old buildings. It was a huge struggle for our school just to get the bathrooms made non-awful. GDS takes forever to fix anything. Being part of a larger system has really significant down sides.

Have you been inside Yu Ying, or the new Latin Cooper building? They're as nice as any, certainly way nicer than our Ward 5 Title I.

And of course, why invest in charter buildings when everyone, including the PCSB, is saying the sector is going to contract?

Yes, those buildings are nice--and cost the schools specifcally money to build.

Have you been the Lafayette Elementary? Dorothy Heights? Both absolutely stunning.

Seen the giant project that Whittier is getting for their temporary campus during their remodel? Millions and millions of dollars so those kids don't have to ride a bus to a flex space.

DCPS schools are getting tons spent on their remodels.

Just looking at it from the sidewalk, it seems a little nuts this is the plan.

The parents in the neighborhood pushing it were so annoying. Some of them didn’t even have kids on the school yet. Would have been so much simpler to just bus the kids.

+1 I drive past the space they're building for Whittier almost daily. It's wild that the city agreed to wreck/occupy the public park space and spend all those millions to build a temporary swing space rather than bus the kids to a brick and mortar, perfectly fine building a couple miles away. I heard they're going to tear it right back down when Whittier is done with it too and that (unlike Burroughs) it won't be used for additional schools.

Agree it boils down to politics...the JLG/our Ward 4 Councilmember pushed hard for the temporary swing space and got lots of credit when it went Whittier's way.

Just an an FYI the parents who wanted the swing space wanted it be used for Wells and/or Coolidge who are both over capacity when the renovations were done. That's what DCPS told them. Then the mayor changed her mind and said it would be dismantled right after the renovation. And again that brick and mortar is not in particularly good shape and being used by a different over capacity school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea was that charters wanted to be separate, to have autonomy, and were willing to give up certain economies of scale in order to do so. But it often feels like they want separateness when it serves them and not when it doesn't. And they can't have it both ways.

We'd save millions of dollars each year if we shut down a few low-performing charters. The kids could go to nearby schools that are not any worse. Then everyone can have a raise.

It really, really grates on me that they are constantly hating on the WTU but when the WTU does all the work (and takes the political blowback) to obtain a pay increase, charters show up with their hands out.

This is all nonsense (and curiously maudlin). This was never "the idea." Charter schools were authorized by Congress because DCPS was seen as a failure. Congress wanted to give families in DC a choice between the two systems. People have been voting with their feet, and charters have been stealing market share from DCPS for decades. It's only a matter of time before most kids in this city go to charters, again because parents think it's the better option for their kids. Given that, it makes no sense for the city to actively discriminate against children whose families made a choice Congress said they were free to make. Obviously, all kids should have an equal educational opportunity.

Your argument makes no sense. You cannot have your cake and eat it too. Ultimately charters are businesses as well, raise money. Add more at risk students. A typical title 1 school has triple or more than MV.

You are also free to choose a charter. No one is taking that right. There is no law to fund it exactly like DCPS because charters do not have to follow the same rules.

Charters are businesses? Weird take. Ours is just a school (with way, way higher test scores than DCPS). Also, the split between at-risk kids in the two systems mirrors overall enrollment. You're a little shaky on the facts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference in the facilities budget does feel unfair (DCPS school renovations are funded through the Capital Budget and DGS, while charters have limited funding through the schools budget, which is why we see these insane renovations for DCPS schools but charter schools feel more modest.)

Only a handful of DCPS schools have gotten "insane renovations," and those were politically driven.

Most DCPS buildings suck, and when they do get renovated, it is at minimal quality. Then they don't get maintained.

You want to rely on DGS for your facilities? We'd be happy to trade places on that one.

Not even close to accurate. Full lost here. https://dgs.dc.gov/dgs-projects/completed-dgs-school-projects. Including...
Benjamin Banneker Academic HS (2021)
Duke Ellington School of the Arts (2017)
Roosevelt High School (2016)
Coolidge High School (2019)
Bard High School Early College DC (2023)
MacArthur High School (2023)
Eliot-Hine Middle School (2020)
MacFarland Middle School (2018)
Marie Reed Elementary/Education Campus (2017)
Alice Deal Middle School (2022)
Bancroft Elementary (2018)
Eaton Elementary (2022)
Lafayette Elementary (2016)
Murch Elementary (2018)
Van Ness Elementary (2015-2017)
Maury Elementary (2019)
Kimball Elementary (2020)
Garfield Elementary (2024)
Smothers Elementary (2023)
J.O. Wilson Elementary (2026)
Tubman Elementary (2026)
Malcolm X @ Green Elementary (2026)
Thomas Elementary (2027-8)

Have you seen Coolidge? It's over capacity and they were forced to keep the old facade. You seem to be unhappy about literally every renovation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are also free to choose a charter. No one is taking that right. There is no law to fund it exactly like DCPS because charters do not have to follow the same rules.

There literally is a law it is called the Uniform Per Student Funding Formula

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea was that charters wanted to be separate, to have autonomy, and were willing to give up certain economies of scale in order to do so. But it often feels like they want separateness when it serves them and not when it doesn't. And they can't have it both ways.

We'd save millions of dollars each year if we shut down a few low-performing charters. The kids could go to nearby schools that are not any worse. Then everyone can have a raise.

It really, really grates on me that they are constantly hating on the WTU but when the WTU does all the work (and takes the political blowback) to obtain a pay increase, charters show up with their hands out.

This is all nonsense (and curiously maudlin). This was never "the idea." Charter schools were authorized by Congress because DCPS was seen as a failure. Congress wanted to give families in DC a choice between the two systems. People have been voting with their feet, and charters have been stealing market share from DCPS for decades. It's only a matter of time before most kids in this city go to charters, again because parents think it's the better option for their kids. Given that, it makes no sense for the city to actively discriminate against children whose families made a choice Congress said they were free to make. Obviously, all kids should have an equal educational opportunity.

There's an election coming. It would be a good time for charter parents in particular to demand the city stop discriminating against kids who attend charters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The idea was that charters wanted to be separate, to have autonomy, and were willing to give up certain economies of scale in order to do so. But it often feels like they want separateness when it serves them and not when it doesn't. And they can't have it both ways.

We'd save millions of dollars each year if we shut down a few low-performing charters. The kids could go to nearby schools that are not any worse. Then everyone can have a raise.

It really, really grates on me that they are constantly hating on the WTU but when the WTU does all the work (and takes the political blowback) to obtain a pay increase, charters show up with their hands out.

This is all nonsense (and curiously maudlin). This was never "the idea." Charter schools were authorized by Congress because DCPS was seen as a failure. Congress wanted to give families in DC a choice between the two systems. People have been voting with their feet, and charters have been stealing market share from DCPS for decades. It's only a matter of time before most kids in this city go to charters, again because parents think it's the better option for their kids. Given that, it makes no sense for the city to actively discriminate against children whose families made a choice Congress said they were free to make. Obviously, all kids should have an equal educational opportunity.

There's an election coming. It would be a good time for charter parents in particular to demand the city stop discriminating against kids who attend charters.

True.

And until parents in general band together as a voting block, their kids' needs will continue to come last in this city. As they always have.

[Anonymous]

DCPS has a huge Capitol Improvements budget that is completely separate from the operating budget because those dollars go to the developers that pay for mayoral campaigns. This used to feel like common knowledge- DC renovating half empty schools into beautiful campuses not for the students but because that is how the city's politics work.

On the flip side, I do see renovations changing how families view schools. I haven't seen data to compare growing desirability by renovation vs other factors, but overall DCPS participation is actually growing.

[Anonymous]

An unpopular opinion for DCUM- if the charters were properly funded the better ones would blow DCPS out of the water. So many struggle under the costs of facilities and teacher turn over from low salaries. If Charters had money to solve those problems the middling to good ones could be amazing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DCPS has a huge Capitol Improvements budget that is completely separate from the operating budget because those dollars go to the developers that pay for mayoral campaigns. This used to feel like common knowledge- DC renovating half empty schools into beautiful campuses not for the students but because that is how the city's politics work.

On the flip side, I do see renovations changing how families view schools. I haven't seen data to compare growing desirability by renovation vs other factors, but overall DCPS participation is actually growing.

The best part is that DGS is unable to properly maintain these new facilities - I am starting to wonder if that is by design - so that the only way to enjoy a functioning DCPS is to be in it for the first 3-5 years after it is rebuilt.

So much waste and fraud. Hope Muriel has enjoyed her stay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An unpopular opinion for DCUM- if the charters were properly funded the better ones would blow DCPS out of the water. So many struggle under the costs of facilities and teacher turn over from low salaries. If Charters had money to solve those problems the middling to good ones could be amazing.

Charters already blow DCPS out of the water, but that’s as much selection effects as it is curriculum. I say this as someone with two kids at a charter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference in the facilities budget does feel unfair (DCPS school renovations are funded through the Capital Budget and DGS, while charters have limited funding through the schools budget, which is why we see these insane renovations for DCPS schools but charter schools feel more modest.)

Only a handful of DCPS schools have gotten "insane renovations," and those were politically driven.

Most DCPS buildings suck, and when they do get renovated, it is at minimal quality. Then they don't get maintained.

You want to rely on DGS for your facilities? We'd be happy to trade places on that one.

Not even close to accurate. Full lost here. https://dgs.dc.gov/dgs-projects/completed-dgs-school-projects. Including...
Benjamin Banneker Academic HS (2021)
Duke Ellington School of the Arts (2017)
Roosevelt High School (2016)
Coolidge High School (2019)
Bard High School Early College DC (2023)
MacArthur High School (2023)
Eliot-Hine Middle School (2020)
MacFarland Middle School (2018)
Marie Reed Elementary/Education Campus (2017)
Alice Deal Middle School (2022)
Bancroft Elementary (2018)
Eaton Elementary (2022)
Lafayette Elementary (2016)
Murch Elementary (2018)
Van Ness Elementary (2015-2017)
Maury Elementary (2019)
Kimball Elementary (2020)
Garfield Elementary (2024)
Smothers Elementary (2023)
J.O. Wilson Elementary (2026)
Tubman Elementary (2026)
Malcolm X @ Green Elementary (2026)
Thomas Elementary (2027-8)

Um. Yeah, there are a lot of schools and, at some point, they all need renovation.

As I stated in the post you responded to, most renovations are very minimal on costs.

A handful of schools have had fancy renovations that are hard to understand based on enrollment numbers. But most of the list above? Very necessary, thrifty renovations.

I know I shouldn't waste my time on low information people like you, but I just can't help myself. You remind me of Colbert at the Correspondents Dinner talking about truthiness. You feel these things and state them like facts and they are based on nothing. Or maybe you think $50 million is "minimal" or "thrifty"? LOL.

These are the FACTS. Please enjoy.

Benjamin Banneker Academic HS $125.8 Million
Duke Ellington School of the Arts $178.5 Million
Roosevelt High School $136.5 Million
Coolidge High School $160.0 Million
Bard High School Early College DC $80.2 million
MacArthur High School $81.0 Million
Eliot-Hine Middle School $91.0 Million
MacFarland Middle School $62 Million
Marie Reed Elementary/Education Campus $63 million
Alice Deal Middle School $45.0 Million
Bancroft Elementary $74.0 Million
Eaton Elementary $58.7 Million
Lafayette Elementary $70.4 Million
Murch Elementary $83.0 Million
Van Ness Elementary $32.4 Million
Maury Elementary $52.0 Million
Kimball Elementary $55.6 Million
Garfield Elementary $60.5 Million
Smothers Elementary $53 Million
J.O. Wilson Elementary $80-100 Million
Tubman Elementary $80-100 Million
Malcolm X @ Green Elementary $54-60 Million
Thomas Elementary $80-100 Million

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The difference in the facilities budget does feel unfair (DCPS school renovations are funded through the Capital Budget and DGS, while charters have limited funding through the schools budget, which is why we see these insane renovations for DCPS schools but charter schools feel more modest.)

Only a handful of DCPS schools have gotten "insane renovations," and those were politically driven.

Most DCPS buildings suck, and when they do get renovated, it is at minimal quality. Then they don't get maintained.

You want to rely on DGS for your facilities? We'd be happy to trade places on that one.

Not even close to accurate. Full lost here. https://dgs.dc.gov/dgs-projects/completed-dgs-school-projects. Including...
Benjamin Banneker Academic HS (2021)
Duke Ellington School of the Arts (2017)
Roosevelt High School (2016)
Coolidge High School (2019)
Bard High School Early College DC (2023)
MacArthur High School (2023)
Eliot-Hine Middle School (2020)
MacFarland Middle School (2018)
Marie Reed Elementary/Education Campus (2017)
Alice Deal Middle School (2022)
Bancroft Elementary (2018)
Eaton Elementary (2022)
Lafayette Elementary (2016)
Murch Elementary (2018)
Van Ness Elementary (2015-2017)
Maury Elementary (2019)
Kimball Elementary (2020)
Garfield Elementary (2024)
Smothers Elementary (2023)
J.O. Wilson Elementary (2026)
Tubman Elementary (2026)
Malcolm X @ Green Elementary (2026)
Thomas Elementary (2027-8)

Have you seen Coolidge? It's over capacity and they were forced to keep the old facade. You seem to be unhappy about literally every renovation.

I don't understand your point, and your reading comprehension needs work. DC spent $160 million on Coolidge. Are you disputing that dollar figure? Did you get confused about the discussion at hand? Low information posters try and dismiss DCPS's capital investments as trivial or minimal. Simply untrue. There are reasonable arguments about why and whether to fund charter facilities, but it is nonsense to try and dismiss that expenditure as irreverent or minor. Which was the point you completely missed.

But thanks for the update on the facade!