Credit Card Fees Now Everywhere!

[Anonymous]

Points should be illegal because:
1. They Function as an Unregulated Private Currency

2. They Constitute Deceptive and Unfair Practices Under Consumer-Protection Law: Loyalty programs regularly devalue points with no notice, impose blackout dates, and use vague redemption terms.

3. They Function as an Untaxed Compensation Scheme. Rewards effectively operate as rebates or quasi-income and give disproportionate benefits to high earners.

4. They Harm the Economy Through Price Inflation and Market Distortion and credit-card points artificially inflate airline ticket prices. The system creates a shadow subsidy that pushes prices upward.

5. They Encourage Predatory Lending and High-Interest Credit. Rewards programs entice consumers to maintain high credit-card usage and promote unhealthy financial behavior.

Credit-card rewards and airline loyalty points are essentially unregulated private currencies that distort markets, facilitate anticompetitive behavior, exploit consumers through deceptive terms, and encourage predatory lending. Therefore, they should be banned, regulated as securities, or brought under direct federal oversight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Credit card points should be illegal and cc fees should be capped at a low percentage.

Why should points be illegal?

Points should be illegal and I don't understand why so many people use them. For one thing, there is no guarantee that they will hold their value. My bank just sent me a letter saying that points are now worth $200 per 20,000 instead of $250, or something similar. When the bank (or airline!) can arbitrarily change their value, it puts the consumer at risk and allows the bank to encourage people to use their card with the promise of a certain amount of return but not give that return.

That’s why the name of the game is “earn and burn!” There is a fairly high barrier to entry in the points game in the form of knowledge and understanding of the way it all works and how to maximize value. It’s like planning a trip to Disney World. It takes a lot of time to maximize it. I would consider myself intermediate/advanced at both, but it’s essentially a part-time job, with the amount of time I spend on points redemption and travel planning. I save a ton of money and we do take awesome trips though. But I consider it fun and I don’t really have other hobbies.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am starting to pay by cash.
But some places are cash free.
So you do not have a choice to pay by cash - and have a service charge. It blows my mind the logic.

I wouldn’t give those places my business.

What if the total price is cheaper and the overall product/service quality is higher than their competitors?

I too find these fees kind of obnoxious but in the end the labelling of the fee is immaterial compared to the overall price.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Credit card points should be illegal and cc fees should be capped at a low percentage.

Why should points be illegal?

Points should be illegal and I don't understand why so many people use them. For one thing, there is no guarantee that they will hold their value. My bank just sent me a letter saying that points are now worth $200 per 20,000 instead of $250, or something similar. When the bank (or airline!) can arbitrarily change their value, it puts the consumer at risk and allows the bank to encourage people to use their card with the promise of a certain amount of return but not give that return.

That’s why the name of the game is “earn and burn!” There is a fairly high barrier to entry in the points game in the form of knowledge and understanding of the way it all works and how to maximize value. It’s like planning a trip to Disney World. It takes a lot of time to maximize it. I would consider myself intermediate/advanced at both, but it’s essentially a part-time job, with the amount of time I spend on points redemption and travel planning. I save a ton of money and we do take awesome trips though. But I consider it fun and I don’t really have other hobbies.

I hate that my banking and travel has become so gamified. I wish we could just pay what things are worth.

[Anonymous]

I'm not a cash person at all, but I dont' mind carrying it. Now I've started to pay in cash for places with a surcharge, even at places where that requires a lot of cash. For example, we took my parents to Roberto's Italian restaurant in McLean and our bill was $300+ for the 6 of us, and I paid in cash. I think they don't expect many people to have that much on hand, but let them deal with the cost and risk of having so much cash in their tills if they want to surcharge for CC payments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Credit card points should be illegal and cc fees should be capped at a low percentage.

Why should points be illegal?

Points should be illegal and I don't understand why so many people use them. For one thing, there is no guarantee that they will hold their value. My bank just sent me a letter saying that points are now worth $200 per 20,000 instead of $250, or something similar. When the bank (or airline!) can arbitrarily change their value, it puts the consumer at risk and allows the bank to encourage people to use their card with the promise of a certain amount of return but not give that return.

That’s why the name of the game is “earn and burn!” There is a fairly high barrier to entry in the points game in the form of knowledge and understanding of the way it all works and how to maximize value. It’s like planning a trip to Disney World. It takes a lot of time to maximize it. I would consider myself intermediate/advanced at both, but it’s essentially a part-time job, with the amount of time I spend on points redemption and travel planning. I save a ton of money and we do take awesome trips though. But I consider it fun and I don’t really have other hobbies.

I hate that my banking and travel has become so gamified. I wish we could just pay what things are worth.

I’m the pp and I actually agree with you. But it bothered me so much knowing that others were getting these great deals on trips, so I decided I couldn’t beat them so I would join them. But I’d rather it just not exist.

[Anonymous]

A lot of small businesses that don't charge a fee for cc, just build the cost of the fee into their pricing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Because you are ultimately paying for those points. They are not "free". I am paying for your points in higher prices (to cover the points). I'd rather just have lower prices and pay for my airline tickets from my savings. If you can't save money on your own, that's your problem.

Merchant service fees vary by card so if you’re not using a higher fee card you’re not paying extra. The merchant and the bank are subsidizing them. Amusing to see someone sk arrogant be so wrong.

Let me guess. You also believe that tariffs are being paid by the merchants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:


Because you are ultimately paying for those points. They are not "free". I am paying for your points in higher prices (to cover the points). I'd rather just have lower prices and pay for my airline tickets from my savings. If you can't save money on your own, that's your problem.

Merchant service fees vary by card so if you’re not using a higher fee card you’re not paying extra. The merchant and the bank are subsidizing them. Amusing to see someone sk arrogant be so wrong.

So you pay 4% extra and I pay 3% extra on the purchase? I have not experienced that. What store does that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Points should be illegal because:
1. They Function as an Unregulated Private Currency

2. They Constitute Deceptive and Unfair Practices Under Consumer-Protection Law: Loyalty programs regularly devalue points with no notice, impose blackout dates, and use vague redemption terms.

3. They Function as an Untaxed Compensation Scheme. Rewards effectively operate as rebates or quasi-income and give disproportionate benefits to high earners.

4. They Harm the Economy Through Price Inflation and Market Distortion and credit-card points artificially inflate airline ticket prices. The system creates a shadow subsidy that pushes prices upward.

5. They Encourage Predatory Lending and High-Interest Credit. Rewards programs entice consumers to maintain high credit-card usage and promote unhealthy financial behavior.

Credit-card rewards and airline loyalty points are essentially unregulated private currencies that distort markets, facilitate anticompetitive behavior, exploit consumers through deceptive terms, and encourage predatory lending. Therefore, they should be banned, regulated as securities, or brought under direct federal oversight.

^^please don’t represent your ChatGTP output here as your own insights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Points should be illegal because:
1. They Function as an Unregulated Private Currency

2. They Constitute Deceptive and Unfair Practices Under Consumer-Protection Law: Loyalty programs regularly devalue points with no notice, impose blackout dates, and use vague redemption terms.

3. They Function as an Untaxed Compensation Scheme. Rewards effectively operate as rebates or quasi-income and give disproportionate benefits to high earners.

4. They Harm the Economy Through Price Inflation and Market Distortion and credit-card points artificially inflate airline ticket prices. The system creates a shadow subsidy that pushes prices upward.

5. They Encourage Predatory Lending and High-Interest Credit. Rewards programs entice consumers to maintain high credit-card usage and promote unhealthy financial behavior.

Credit-card rewards and airline loyalty points are essentially unregulated private currencies that distort markets, facilitate anticompetitive behavior, exploit consumers through deceptive terms, and encourage predatory lending. Therefore, they should be banned, regulated as securities, or brought under direct federal oversight.

^^please don’t represent your ChatGTP output here as your own insights.

Also, the original sin is the interchange pricing oligopoly. That is what created the outsized profits that create the points ecosystem. A lot simpler (and fully legal) to just cap the interchange fees like most of the rest of the developed world. Then the points system will evolve accordingly, with no need to force regulation on it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


Because you are ultimately paying for those points. They are not "free". I am paying for your points in higher prices (to cover the points). I'd rather just have lower prices and pay for my airline tickets from my savings. If you can't save money on your own, that's your problem.

Merchant service fees vary by card so if you’re not using a higher fee card you’re not paying extra. The merchant and the bank are subsidizing them. Amusing to see someone sk arrogant be so wrong.

So you pay 4% extra and I pay 3% extra on the purchase? I have not experienced that. What store does that?

This hasn't actually happened yet, but it may. Last week or so, Visa/MC settled a lawsuit with the merchant's association. Merchants will no be able to charge different fees for different cards. No just netwroks. So you Chase Sapphire Reserve may have a 4% fee while your barebones Truist visa card may not have a fee at all.

Will merchnats do this? Who knows? Consumer groups will inevitably sue to force merchants to put up signs stating what cards bear what fees. So they will have a sign with 30 different fees? So every consumer will be able to look through their wallet to get the lowest fee? That'll certainly gum up the works.

[Anonymous]

I don't pay CC fees anytime they ask for. Either I ask them to include or don't shop it. The new lawsuit has actually reduced the fees for the merchants so not sure why they are charging more now.

[Anonymous]

Check out Affirm and the Affirm card. I’ve been using it a lot because I don’t want to pay credit card fees anymore either, but I can still spread the cost like a credit card.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Check out Affirm and the Affirm card. I’ve been using it a lot because I don’t want to pay credit card fees anymore either, but I can still spread the cost like a credit card.

Navy Federal cash rewards card has no fees.
Pay balance off monthly and get "free" $$.