Concerns about TJ Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently all the teachers are racist in middle school. In high school none of the teachers are racist so they use recommendations for colleges.

All the tests are unfair in middle school and amazingly SAT/ACT are fair in HS.

It is a mystery.

There are academic studies that there were very clear differences in how letters of recommendation where written for similarly qualified kids based on race. I am not sure that applied to TJ applicants but it does happen and it is studied.

I think the dropping of letters of recommendation was great for teachers at the feeder schools due to the number of kids who were asking for them. I can’t imagine how many kids were asking the same people, their Math and Science teachers, for letters at Carson. There are 4 science teachers for 8th grade, I am not sure about the number of math teachers. I can see the science and math teachers being asked to write 30-40 letters of recommendation. That is a ton of extra work that would be needed on top of grading and lesson planning.

People on this board consistently complain about the HOPE scores that are given by second grade teachers and talk about how the teachers cannot see how gifted their kid and how poorly educated the teacher is to pick out the gifted traits in their kid. It is one of the factors that people want to get rid of.

There is plenty of literature out there that demonstrate that the SAT/ACT are written in a way that is biased towards white, upper middle class, life experiences. And one of the common criticisms is that the SAT/ACT are easily gamed by people who can afford prep and to take it 5 times to get a super score. The SAT/ACT scores that people see that are so amazing are rarely from a kids first attempt.

I call bullshit. Can you provide a cite?

And the "common criticism" of the gamification of the SAT is not data it's complaining because your kid isn't as smart as you thought they were.

There are in fact studies showing that rich kids and poor kids with the same test scores get the same GPA. I do think the college board should limit how many times you can take the exam to the same number of times you can take the exam for free if you are poor. Right now you can only take the exam twice for free and some school systems pay for your first one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently all the teachers are racist in middle school. In high school none of the teachers are racist so they use recommendations for colleges.

All the tests are unfair in middle school and amazingly SAT/ACT are fair in HS.

It is a mystery.

There are academic studies that there were very clear differences in how letters of recommendation where written for similarly qualified kids based on race. I am not sure that applied to TJ applicants but it does happen and it is studied.

I think the dropping of letters of recommendation was great for teachers at the feeder schools due to the number of kids who were asking for them. I can’t imagine how many kids were asking the same people, their Math and Science teachers, for letters at Carson. There are 4 science teachers for 8th grade, I am not sure about the number of math teachers. I can see the science and math teachers being asked to write 30-40 letters of recommendation. That is a ton of extra work that would be needed on top of grading and lesson planning.

People on this board consistently complain about the HOPE scores that are given by second grade teachers and talk about how the teachers cannot see how gifted their kid and how poorly educated the teacher is to pick out the gifted traits in their kid. It is one of the factors that people want to get rid of.

There is plenty of literature out there that demonstrate that the SAT/ACT are written in a way that is biased towards white, upper middle class, life experiences. And one of the common criticisms is that the SAT/ACT are easily gamed by people who can afford prep and to take it 5 times to get a super score. The SAT/ACT scores that people see that are so amazing are rarely from a kids first attempt.

The excuse that the tests are based towards the white upper middle class is hard to believe when Asian students far outperform white male students on the SAT. SAT scores are biased towards high having cognitive proficiency in math and having an expansive vocabulary. Asian immigrant students who come from non English speaking families far outperform other races and native speakers.

I know right? These white supremacists had ONE JOB!!! Maybe they can have an oral exam where all the student's parents have to come in and pronounce lululemon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:15 years ago our neighbor in an apartment complex had a son who is 3 years old and used to play with my son who is the same age. The father who is Chinese used to work job including a nightime shift. Both the jobs are pretty low paying menial jobs. He used to tell me he needs to save that money since he would send his child to Harvard.

I can imagine the child, who is a really sweet kid, doing really well in college admissions.

A family that does not put as much emphasis on academics would not do as well.

Immigrants in general and Asians immigrants in particular are just willing to sacrifice more for education than most others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 years ago our neighbor in an apartment complex had a son who is 3 years old and used to play with my son who is the same age. The father who is Chinese used to work job including a nightime shift. Both the jobs are pretty low paying menial jobs. He used to tell me he needs to save that money since he would send his child to Harvard.

I can imagine the child, who is a really sweet kid, doing really well in college admissions.

A family that does not put as much emphasis on academics would not do as well.

Immigrants in general and Asians immigrants in particular are just willing to sacrifice more for education than most others.

Sacrificing for education is one thing and is very admirable.

Wealthy families choosing to optimize their child's chances in competitive admissions processes by streamlining their childhood in service of that process is problematic, especially when access to that optimization is limited to those with resources. So it's incumbent on those who design admissions processes to remove those incentives for two reasons:

1) It's not good for *any* elite institution to restrict access, either de facto or de jure, from students who are every bit as meritorious and deserving but perhaps weren't lucky enough to be born to parents who have resources, motivation, and awareness of the rules of the game;

2) It's not good to put pressure on families who would like to raise well-rounded, well-adjusted children that if they want their kids to have a shot, they have to engage in the problematic behaviors of the parents who don't care about the damage they're doing to their children in service of the TJ/HYPSM golden idol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 years ago our neighbor in an apartment complex had a son who is 3 years old and used to play with my son who is the same age. The father who is Chinese used to work job including a nightime shift. Both the jobs are pretty low paying menial jobs. He used to tell me he needs to save that money since he would send his child to Harvard.

I can imagine the child, who is a really sweet kid, doing really well in college admissions.

A family that does not put as much emphasis on academics would not do as well.

Immigrants in general and Asians immigrants in particular are just willing to sacrifice more for education than most others.

Periodic reminder that before the modernization of the TJ admissions process, TJ was functionally inaccessible to low-income Asian students and families.

And that's no longer the case. But by all means, feel free to advocate for the removal of low-income Asian students from TJ.

[Anonymous]

Periodic reminder than students are dropping off in large numbers every year from TJ within the first few weeks of school year due to the poor admissions process.

A friend's son was offered admission to TJ, 2 weeks after the start of classes from the waitlist pool!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Periodic reminder than students are dropping off in large numbers every year from TJ within the first few weeks of school year due to the poor admissions process.

A friend's son was offered admission to TJ, 2 weeks after the start of classes from the waitlist pool!

Has always happened! But at least now they’re working to fill the class back to its intended number.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:15 years ago our neighbor in an apartment complex had a son who is 3 years old and used to play with my son who is the same age. The father who is Chinese used to work job including a nightime shift. Both the jobs are pretty low paying menial jobs. He used to tell me he needs to save that money since he would send his child to Harvard.

I can imagine the child, who is a really sweet kid, doing really well in college admissions.

A family that does not put as much emphasis on academics would not do as well.

Immigrants in general and Asians immigrants in particular are just willing to sacrifice more for education than most others.

Sacrificing for education is one thing and is very admirable.

Wealthy families choosing to optimize their child's chances in competitive admissions processes by streamlining their childhood in service of that process is problematic, especially when access to that optimization is limited to those with resources. So it's incumbent on those who design admissions processes to remove those incentives for two reasons:

1) It's not good for *any* elite institution to restrict access, either de facto or de jure, from students who are every bit as meritorious and deserving but perhaps weren't lucky enough to be born to parents who have resources, motivation, and awareness of the rules of the game;

2) It's not good to put pressure on families who would like to raise well-rounded, well-adjusted children that if they want their kids to have a shot, they have to engage in the problematic behaviors of the parents who don't care about the damage they're doing to their children in service of the TJ/HYPSM golden idol.

Well said.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apparently all the teachers are racist in middle school. In high school none of the teachers are racist so they use recommendations for colleges.

All the tests are unfair in middle school and amazingly SAT/ACT are fair in HS.

It is a mystery.

There are academic studies that there were very clear differences in how letters of recommendation where written for similarly qualified kids based on race. I am not sure that applied to TJ applicants but it does happen and it is studied.

I think the dropping of letters of recommendation was great for teachers at the feeder schools due to the number of kids who were asking for them. I can’t imagine how many kids were asking the same people, their Math and Science teachers, for letters at Carson. There are 4 science teachers for 8th grade, I am not sure about the number of math teachers. I can see the science and math teachers being asked to write 30-40 letters of recommendation. That is a ton of extra work that would be needed on top of grading and lesson planning.

People on this board consistently complain about the HOPE scores that are given by second grade teachers and talk about how the teachers cannot see how gifted their kid and how poorly educated the teacher is to pick out the gifted traits in their kid. It is one of the factors that people want to get rid of.

There is plenty of literature out there that demonstrate that the SAT/ACT are written in a way that is biased towards white, upper middle class, life experiences. And one of the common criticisms is that the SAT/ACT are easily gamed by people who can afford prep and to take it 5 times to get a super score. The SAT/ACT scores that people see that are so amazing are rarely from a kids first attempt.

I call bullshit. Can you provide a cite?

And the "common criticism" of the gamification of the SAT is not data it's complaining because your kid isn't as smart as you thought they were.

There are in fact studies showing that rich kids and poor kids with the same test scores get the same GPA. I do think the college board should limit how many times you can take the exam to the same number of times you can take the exam for free if you are poor. Right now you can only take the exam twice for free and some school systems pay for your first one.

https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/racist-beginnings-standardized-testing

[Anonymous]

OK but EVERYTHING old in USA has "racist beginnings" because USA (like many others) was founded as racist nation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Periodic reminder than students are dropping off in large numbers every year from TJ within the first few weeks of school year due to the poor admissions process.

A friend's son was offered admission to TJ, 2 weeks after the start of classes from the waitlist pool!

This is funny. How many do you consider to be a “large” number? Students are not added after the school year starts even as freshmen because it would interrupt the courses in that year. The students who arrive as sophomores represent exactly the same distribution of talent as the rest of the student body; i.e. they are indistinguishable from anyone else once their sophomore year starts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Periodic reminder than students are dropping off in large numbers every year from TJ within the first few weeks of school year due to the poor admissions process.

A friend's son was offered admission to TJ, 2 weeks after the start of classes from the waitlist pool!

This is funny. How many do you consider to be a “large” number? Students are not added after the school year starts even as freshmen because it would interrupt the courses in that year. The students who arrive as sophomores represent exactly the same distribution of talent as the rest of the student body; i.e. they are indistinguishable from anyone else once their sophomore year starts.

With the new selection process the froshmore's are indistinguishable with the top 10-20% of the class. Most of them make it to the T10/T20 schools or state flagships (class of 2025). The selection process for froshmore is better as it is done by TJ teachers (they know if the kids can handle the TJ rigor) as opposed to the courthouse staff and yes it has the recommendation of the base high school teachers too (biased or not).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Periodic reminder than students are dropping off in large numbers every year from TJ within the first few weeks of school year due to the poor admissions process.

A friend's son was offered admission to TJ, 2 weeks after the start of classes from the waitlist pool!

This is funny. How many do you consider to be a “large” number? Students are not added after the school year starts even as freshmen because it would interrupt the courses in that year. The students who arrive as sophomores represent exactly the same distribution of talent as the rest of the student body; i.e. they are indistinguishable from anyone else once their sophomore year starts.

With the new selection process the froshmore's are indistinguishable with the top 10-20% of the class. Most of them make it to the T10/T20 schools or state flagships (class of 2025). The selection process for froshmore is better as it is done by TJ teachers (they know if the kids can handle the TJ rigor) as opposed to the courthouse staff and yes it has the recommendation of the base high school teachers too (biased or not).

You can’t possibly know this. Once they arrive there is no publication of froshmore vs everyone else. So unless you combed through yearbooks and end of year publications you’re just spouting made up numbers.

In fact, did you know that nearly 80% of statistics are made up on the spot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You can have concerns about TJ admissions but you can’t change it so just make sure your kid is prepared for the test and understands the pros and cons of attending TJ

As for the students whose base schools did not prepare them, I think TJ should take responsibility for getting those kids the remedial help they need. Clearly those kids are motivated. Teachers should not be accepting that those kids are destined to do poorly - they need additional supports and help and maybe there need to be some lower level classes for freshman available in certain subjects.

These are my thoughts as well...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Hi OP!

I am the parent of a sophomore at TJ. My child is earning excellent grades, loves TJ, and clearly belongs there.

Please read the thread someone created about rigor at TJ, though feel free to ignore the last few pages, which devolved into the same tired bickering. I’m convinced there is a troll here in the AAP section who worked on the admissions revision and/or is part of the FCPS Chief Equity Officer, Nardos King’s 55-person department at Gatehouse.

Once you have an idea of the rigor, please discuss it and help your child decide whether to apply, with one major caveat:

- please do not push them to attend if they do not want to go to TJ.

TJ has far too many students who were forced, by their parents, to go. Don’t be that parent.

As for the revised standards, the opinions about it really don’t matter on an individual basis. They will not change in time for the next admission cycle.

If your child decides TJ is the right fit, by all means, have them apply. There is little to no guarantee of admission (unless you have the right “experience factors” which account for up to 40% of the decision).

TJ is a wonderful opportunity for the right student.

What are the experience factors? It seems that FFX is really preparing their students for TJHSST as an option, but as a parent from one of the other counties paying for TJHSST it seems we get little to no info or prep... it seems our kids are counted out from the beginning so that the spots can go back to the handful FFX 'feeder middle schools'?!