Why are kids mad about the new grading?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't have a problem with the new policy per se, I'm just hoping that they will get rid of some of all the little busywork assignments, because more isn't always better. Countries that have high stakes stressful exams don't also have tons of little stress crappy things that add up along the way.

I don’t think we want to emulate those countries. And your method doesn’t track with research on learning.

I don't think we should emulate those countries, I just don't want the worst of both worlds.
Research on learning says you should prompt students on a topic when they're close to forgetting it, but somehow a lot of US education has decided kids don't need to know anything, so they have a lot of assignments that aren't even conducive to learning. Like the "teacher will check off the HW for completeness but not grade it," which stresses my kids out whenever they're out sick (and that's actually how they got some 50%'s, because the teacher then forgets about this.) Let's maybe take out some of that busywork.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new system is objectively better in most ways. But here's the counter argument. I have a very serious and anxious kid. And when stress is high, I appreciated being able to remind her of two things.

1. If it's toward the end of a quarter and she has like a 96%, she can stop stressing about that class. Chill out. Focus on another class. Because if it's quarter 3, then it doesn't do any good being way above 90% and if it's quarter 4 and she got an A the prior quarter, there's no way her grade will drop all the way to 79% to create a real drop in grade. The new system changes that equation somewhat (and I fear that her reaction will be to try to get as close to 100% in quarters 1 and 3 as possible, just in case).
and
2. If she got 6 As and a B in quarter 3, then I can tell her to put most of her energy into that one class. That she has wiggle room on the others so can devote her energy to the B.

The other nice implication of the old system was that if a kid is doing a team sport or other activity that takes a ton of time, they have more wiggle room in the busy quarter and can make up the difference in the off quarter.

All the time that her older sibs were in HS, I derided the silly MCPS grading system. But with this kid, it's actually provided some mental health benefits that I've appreciated (particularly since her work ethic is such that she's far, far from abusing the system).

My kid sounds a lot like yours. I blame myself some for emphasizing grades rather than "learn what you love," or something. But my student is anxious and upset about the new system because there is no mental break from the relentless pursuit of the highest score on an assessment.

There are a lot of breaks during the year. If she needs more, drop a level in some of her classes.

Viewed as a trade for (a) complete boredom, and (b) a class grouping of unruly kids who don't care about learning.

[Anonymous]

I have a rising junior, and I've talked to her and a couple of her friends about this during the summer. I can tell you why they are stressed/mad already for this year.

(1) No/not enough input from students and parents before final decision was made.

(2) Poor rollout/explanation of portions of the plan. For example, none of us know/are certain whether a course like World History that has always been divided into two courses -- A and B--with two grades will become a full year course with one grade for the entire year. What happens if someone takes AP Bio or Chem -- a two period class? Do these classes become two full year grades?

(3) Immediate implementation. Every system-wide grade change (except when they clarified that getting an A and B in either marking period is an A) or course implementation change (Health going from 1 to 2 semesters) that has occurred over the past 10 years has not been immediately applied to current students. Always a grace period before implementation. The excuse that everyone in a class has to be on the same grading system is just pure laziness on behalf of the school system. They have plenty of time to create a program to address this issue if it is really an issue.

(4) Number of students taking AP/IB courses will drop. Students will take Honors instead of AP because they get the same weighted grade. Since MCPS does not distinguish courses in rankings and did not do a review of what courses should receive higher weighing before rolling out the new grading system, my junior and her friends are fearful that they will lose out in competitions for scholarships and other school awards because other students will take easier courses.

(5) Diminishes prior grades for those entering the college application process/no time to repair any lower grades earned during junior year for admissions. There is nothing MCPS can say to explain the grading change on transcripts that would not harm students in admissions who receive lower grades under the new system.

(6) "Will increase uniformity in grading." There has never been uniformity in grading. There have always been teachers that would not round anything between 89.51-89.99 to a 90. (My sons had those teachers in AP/Honors math courses.) There also is nothing in the plan to ensure that teachers will return work within 10 days. My children frequently have had math and language teachers submit grades on 15-20 assignments including tests the eve of mid-term and end of marking period/semester deadlines, denying them the ability if needed to correct. Complaints from parents and students at my kids' high school about such teachers have been ignored for years.

[Anonymous]

I taught briefly in a post-Soviet Eastern European private school. The setup was much better for students and staff. Grading was very strict, but teachers had lots of time during the school day to grade. I only took grading home if there was a lengthy assignment. Students read the comments and asked follow-up questions rather than complaining about their marks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a rising junior, and I've talked to her and a couple of her friends about this during the summer. I can tell you why they are stressed/mad already for this year.

(1) No/not enough input from students and parents before final decision was made.

(2) Poor rollout/explanation of portions of the plan. For example, none of us know/are certain whether a course like World History that has always been divided into two courses -- A and B--with two grades will become a full year course with one grade for the entire year. What happens if someone takes AP Bio or Chem -- a two period class? Do these classes become two full year grades?

(3) Immediate implementation. Every system-wide grade change (except when they clarified that getting an A and B in either marking period is an A) or course implementation change (Health going from 1 to 2 semesters) that has occurred over the past 10 years has not been immediately applied to current students. Always a grace period before implementation. The excuse that everyone in a class has to be on the same grading system is just pure laziness on behalf of the school system. They have plenty of time to create a program to address this issue if it is really an issue.

(4) Number of students taking AP/IB courses will drop. Students will take Honors instead of AP because they get the same weighted grade. Since MCPS does not distinguish courses in rankings and did not do a review of what courses should receive higher weighing before rolling out the new grading system, my junior and her friends are fearful that they will lose out in competitions for scholarships and other school awards because other students will take easier courses.

(5) Diminishes prior grades for those entering the college application process/no time to repair any lower grades earned during junior year for admissions. There is nothing MCPS can say to explain the grading change on transcripts that would not harm students in admissions who receive lower grades under the new system.

(6) "Will increase uniformity in grading." There has never been uniformity in grading. There have always been teachers that would not round anything between 89.51-89.99 to a 90. [b] (My sons had those teachers in AP/Honors math courses.) There also is nothing in the plan to ensure that teachers will return work within 10 days. My children frequently have had math and language teachers submit grades on 15-20 assignments including tests the eve of mid-term and end of marking period/semester deadlines, denying them the ability if needed to correct. Complaints from parents and students at my kids' high school about such teachers have been ignored for years.

Synergy does this automatically. The teachers don’t have to do anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

(2) Poor rollout/explanation of portions of the plan. For example, none of us know/are certain whether a course like World History that has always been divided into two courses -- A and B--with two grades will become a full year course with one grade for the entire year. What happens if someone takes AP Bio or Chem -- a two period class? Do these classes become two full year grades?

High school courses are each one semester long, and that isn't changing. The year-long courses mentioned in the new regulation are middle school courses.

[Anonymous]

If a student chooses not to take an AP course because of this change then they likely shouldn’t have been in the AP course to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If a student chooses not to take an AP course because of this change then they likely shouldn’t have been in the AP course to begin with.

+1
If this gets students to take fewer AP/IB courses and focus on where they can legitimately learn content that is great from my perspective and will lead to more reasonable schedules. Currently kids are taking as many as they can because that’s the only way to distinguish themselves to colleges because As are so easy to get — grades have become meaningless in MCPS with so much grade inflation. Doing well on the AP/OB exams and SATs takes on disproportional importance.

If changes to grading mean that grades become a more meaningful measure and that students don’t feel pressured to take AP/IB courses when they simply are not ready or would be overwhelmed by the load, that’s a good thing. I also think having plus/minus grading would help in this regard, as well as offering both on-level and honors courses.

[Anonymous]

People who are doing well don't want change imposed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a current MCPS student and heard that students are going to board meetings to talk about the new grading. Why is it such a problem? I’m a rising junior, by the way, and it would just seem that you should keep with your current output of work and your grades will be fine. It seems to only be a problem if you’re slacking off, so I would understand a few stragglers, but even in my own inner circle, people are really mad. Is there something I don’t know? Thanks in advance.

HS Teacher here. A fear that many students have is that this change will impact college admissions because their GPAs will be lower. The problem is that students think they are competing against every other kid who applies to a particular college, but in reality they are competing against the other kids in their high school who will be affected the same way.

What students don’t see is that the current grading policy has actually been hurting college admissions because they have internal data that shows supposedly straight A kids from MCPS weren’t actually ready for their university courses. Students also don’t understand that padding their transcript with As and Bs in AP courses they barely understand doesn’t really help them when they get to college and are completely unprepared for next level courses or how to study and retain information for an entire semester.

I have a similar but ever so slightly different take: The old grading policy benefited students who were A-/B+ kids (MCPS doesn't use + or -). They could get straight As even with Bs in some quarters. This meant that to colleges, there was a larger cohort of kids coming from MCPS that were indistinguishable from one another. This hurt the really stellar students, who struggled to differentiate themselves from the tier 2.

So now I feel it's more equitable. The top students will still be at the top, and will be recognized as such. The second tier will be where they actually belong, in the second tier. And so on. It's fair. I don't think anyone can argue with that!

It is absolutely fair, but the fact that A-/B+ students will be differentiated from straight A students is exactly what kids fear. Even if you’re a rising senior who has never gotten a B, it could happen, and now you will pay a real price for it. The OP didn’t ask if the new policy was fair; they asked why kids are mad about it. What you’re posting about is why kids don’t want this change in policy. New fear unlocked.

PP you replied to. I hear you. My DD is in high school, and was wondering about the consequences of the new grading, and I explained what I said above. They should collectively be happier that a wrong is being righted, even if there's a small fear about their own personal situation. This is what practicing equity is all about, and I think it's a valuable experience for teens to live through. All of a sudden, concepts of fairness that sounded obvious in theory now seem a little more fraught when it comes to potential consequences for themselves. Great lesson!

Agreed- my son was the king of A-s. Would have served him well to exert himself further.

Says you

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People who are doing well don't want change imposed.

Neither do people who've learned how to game the system.

[Anonymous]

"(4) Number of students taking AP/IB courses will drop. Students will take Honors instead of AP because they get the same weighted grade. Since MCPS does not distinguish courses in rankings and did not do a review of what courses should receive higher weighing before rolling out the new grading system, my junior and her friends are fearful that they will lose out in competitions for scholarships and other school awards because other students will take easier courses."

I have a different fear. Because kids will drop AP/IB courses for the easier grades under the new system, the enrollment numbers could drop, leading a school to drop the course for the year. B-CC dropped several courses for 25-26 due to low enrollment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"(4) Number of students taking AP/IB courses will drop. Students will take Honors instead of AP because they get the same weighted grade. Since MCPS does not distinguish courses in rankings and did not do a review of what courses should receive higher weighing before rolling out the new grading system, my junior and her friends are fearful that they will lose out in competitions for scholarships and other school awards because other students will take easier courses."

I have a different fear. Because kids will drop AP/IB courses for the easier grades under the new system, the enrollment numbers could drop, leading a school to drop the course for the year. B-CC dropped several courses for 25-26 due to low enrollment.

What courses di B-CC drop?

[Anonymous]

Students don't like it because they will never have breathing room. There's never a time until maybe the last couple of weeks of the semester where they think they can let up on the gas.

This is particularly pronounced when kids have a bunch of different tough classes in quarters 1 and 3 and and they'd like to let up the gas on one to focus on another course. But if they do that, they could potentially lower their percentage score on the course they let up on, and it could now come back to haunt them in the semester grade.

Also, the issue isn't so much in the reality of how many times this will actually lead to a lower semester grade. It's in the anxiety that such a thing COULD happen, so they can never let up on any course until the see the light of the end of the semester on the horizon.

Whether you interpret this as a good thing (it keeps kids on task all semester) or a bad thing (it keeps kids stressed and overdoing it out of fear of next quarter's grading) is a matter of perspective.

[Anonymous]

Kids who want to ease up in the second and fourth quarters can still do so, but they just have to work harder in the first and third quarters. If they get 95s or higher to begin with, they'll know they can then get 85s or higher to receive an A for the semester.