Should Natural Born US Citizens have more rights than "Naturalized" US Citizens? Why or Why Not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I didn't choose to move here, my family did when I was young. But I also understand that my people did not build this nation and I am a non-native inhabitant of this country. I don't believe it's right for me to try to displace my host country with millions of foreigners and try to change its demographics, culture, and language. It's patently absurd to say I'm just as American as someone who can trace his ancestry back to America's founding just because I have legal documents that declare me an American. It's like if a random Frenchman moved to South Korea and started claiming they're just as Korean as my cousins in Korea. It's so absurd flat on its face, yet if you point this out in the West, you're incessantly berated as racist and bigoted.

There needs to be an immigration moratorium in America for at least 2 generations until America can figure out what the heck its identity and unifying culture is. Right now, America does not have any coherent national identity or social cohesion. And muh capitalism and muh meritocracy is the thinnest foundation to form civic society on, which will inevitably devolve into rampant avarice and degeneracy. There is no unifying culture to assimilate to anymore because of the onslaught of multiculturalism.

Nations are a HOME to a shared people of shared history, culture, and ancestry. They are an extension of your own home and community, not an economic zone or just mere plots of land to plunder. Immigration should be highly exclusive, selective, and rare if it happens for cases of generational talent/skills or true asylum, but it's gotten so out of hand in America that unless there's an immigration moratorium, America will just become enclaves of drastically different people groups with different religions & value systems inhabiting the same plot of land (which it kinda already has become).

I want America to be America. I want Korea to be Korea. I want India to be India. I don't want America to be India. I don't want Korea to be America. I don't want India to be Korea.

The preservation of your home is not born from irrational hatred of others but a genuine love for your people and nation.

Globalism is a cancer and Satanic. Stop letting materialism and muh GDP become your only metric of what is good and necessary. Love for your people and your nation means more than just new inventions and more money. But if every other group is allowed to have in-group preferences, I don't see why Western Europeans and Americans can't either.

Touche.

- a Turk first, American later

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think there should be two tiers of citizenship, but I do think the US needs a moratorium on most immigration for at least 50 years. We’ve had way too many immigrants from too many disparate groups and cultures in too short of a period. Now we have Ilhan Omar advocating for her home country of Somalia, we have Mexicans waving the Mexican flag around, we have Indians who only hire other Indians and want to bring in lots more Indians on H1bs when Americans should get priority for those jobs. Each group is fighting for its own group and people, instead of for America.

America used to have a powerful ability to transmogrify immigrants into Anglos. We are quickly losing that ability. Today’s immigrants view America as simply an economic zone where they don’t have to give up loyalty to their home countries and people. It has destroyed social cohesion. We need at least two generations to assimilate the existing immigrants.

True on all accounts.

Well said.

Aye aye. well said but the big beautiful door allowing economic migrants to come to the US should never be closed. Secure the border and make it more easily possible for migrants to come the US legally to work as we need them too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I didn't choose to move here, my family did when I was young. But I also understand that my people did not build this nation and I am a non-native inhabitant of this country. I don't believe it's right for me to try to displace my host country with millions of foreigners and try to change its demographics, culture, and language. It's patently absurd to say I'm just as American as someone who can trace his ancestry back to America's founding just because I have legal documents that declare me an American. It's like if a random Frenchman moved to South Korea and started claiming they're just as Korean as my cousins in Korea. It's so absurd flat on its face, yet if you point this out in the West, you're incessantly berated as racist and bigoted.

There needs to be an immigration moratorium in America for at least 2 generations until America can figure out what the heck its identity and unifying culture is. Right now, America does not have any coherent national identity or social cohesion. And muh capitalism and muh meritocracy is the thinnest foundation to form civic society on, which will inevitably devolve into rampant avarice and degeneracy. There is no unifying culture to assimilate to anymore because of the onslaught of multiculturalism.

Nations are a HOME to a shared people of shared history, culture, and ancestry. They are an extension of your own home and community, not an economic zone or just mere plots of land to plunder. Immigration should be highly exclusive, selective, and rare if it happens for cases of generational talent/skills or true asylum, but it's gotten so out of hand in America that unless there's an immigration moratorium, America will just become enclaves of drastically different people groups with different religions & value systems inhabiting the same plot of land (which it kinda already has become).

I want America to be America. I want Korea to be Korea. I want India to be India. I don't want America to be India. I don't want Korea to be America. I don't want India to be Korea.

The preservation of your home is not born from irrational hatred of others but a genuine love for your people and nation.

Globalism is a cancer and Satanic. Stop letting materialism and muh GDP become your only metric of what is good and necessary. Love for your people and your nation means more than just new inventions and more money. But if every other group is allowed to have in-group preferences, I don't see why Western Europeans and Americans can't either.

America is different. It is a country of immigrants. Very few Americans can "trace their ancestry back to America's founding." We were founded by immigrants and most of our people are descendants of immigrants. The same is not true for most other countries.

Millions of legal immigrants came in the late 1800s and early 1900s. They abandoned their original language, keep their foods, learned English on their own, played baseball, studied the country’s history, listened to its music, and loved America.

They can also tell you exactly why they left and never turned back, nor remitted money back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think dual citizenship needs to be eliminated when you are naturalized.

Why do you think that?

It would stop rich people birthing tourism.

It wouldn’t stop the “make money in America, send it back, then retire back in the homeland” allegiance folks.

It wouldn’t stop the illiterate, uneducated, unskilled illegal economic migrants who want anchor babies on welfare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As for “national character”, I call BS. What do you think is America’s national character - New York stockbrokers, California surfers, Kansas farmers, Texas roughnecks, Hollywood filmmakers, tech billionaires, etc.? The national character of America is the melting pot.

America is not a melting pot. In a melting pot immigrants would be expected to shed their distinct cultural identities to adopt a homogenous American identity.

Correct.

No melting going on here the last few decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely not. Having a tiered system with second-class citizens is antithetical to the idea of equality that is central to our national identity. If a naturalized citizen breaks the law, they can go to American jail as an American citizen, along with the natural born American criminals.

Moreover, the Constitution designates both those born in America and those naturalized as citizens, without expressing one route to citizenship as another. If we allow Trump (or anyone) to say that birthright citizenship no longer applies or that naturalized citizens can have their citizenship revoked if they commit crimes, then nobody’s citizenship is guaranteed. The definition of “crime” is a lot more flexible than the definition of citizenship. Moreover, there is a set process to change the Constitution through amendment. It isn’t easy or quick, and it was deliberately designed that way. If we allow the government to override any part of the Constitution (which guarantees our freedom) without following the amendment process, the Constitution is broken and with its loss goes our freedom.

As for “national character”, I call BS. What do you think is America’s national character - New York stockbrokers, California surfers, Kansas farmers, Texas roughnecks, Hollywood filmmakers, tech billionaires, etc.? The national character of America is the melting pot. We are a very large nation of immigrants and our culture reflects the melding of those who came here, whether voluntarily, involuntarily, or were here long before the pilgrims. Aside from the Native Americans who were already here, early New York settlers were Dutch, Louisiana was colonized by the French, and the Spanish explorers starting with Columbus and followed by the conquistadors, left their marks on “the new world”, conquering much of what is now America. Enslaved Africans brought their culture with them, and while much was lost, what remained was embedded in America’s character. Wave after wave of immigrants has come to America, and while many were reviled at the time, they eventually melded into America, integrating parts of their cultures into the “American” culture and assimilating to the point that they could revile the next wave of “other” immigrants, at least until their culture had been similarly integrated in its turn. This is the problem with all those aghast at “cultural appropriation” - it is actually the larger society recognizing value in something new and wanting to adopt it to enrich it’s own culture. It’s the defining feature of American culture that we can find things to value in other cultures to add to our own, while respecting that we are all Americans and that our differences make us stronger.

The common culture in America is still Anglo. If you were born and raised in the US, and you visit another Anglo country, you will feel at home there. If you go to Somalia etc, you will not feel at home there unless you have recent ties to the country.

The United States is the second largest Spanish speaking country in the world and includes many people whose ancestors were Mexican until the borders changed.

Unf the majority of those are 50m illegals and their 75m+ offspring, most of whom are functionally illiterate in Spanish and English and any random dialect they picked up verbal/ not via formal schooling.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think there should be two tiers of citizenship, but I do think the US needs a moratorium on most immigration for at least 50 years. We’ve had way too many immigrants from too many disparate groups and cultures in too short of a period. Now we have Ilhan Omar advocating for her home country of Somalia, we have Mexicans waving the Mexican flag around, we have Indians who only hire other Indians and want to bring in lots more Indians on H1bs when Americans should get priority for those jobs. Each group is fighting for its own group and people, instead of for America.

America used to have a powerful ability to transmogrify immigrants into Anglos. We are quickly losing that ability. Today’s immigrants view America as simply an economic zone where they don’t have to give up loyalty to their home countries and people. It has destroyed social cohesion. We need at least two generations to assimilate the existing immigrants.

Have you considered that people like you--with such unthinkingly racist, hostile and arrogant mindsets--are why immigrants of color have not been able to assimilate?

The previous generations of immigrants who you claim were turned into anglos were WHITE immigrants. That has never been an option for visibly non-white immigrants. There is no pathway for immigrants of color to be accepted in America the way white immigrants were and still are. We are perpetual guests in the minds of people like you and THAT is why we cannot fully assimilate and often give up. It has nothing to do with recency of immigration and everything to do with race in this country.

Speaking as a very well-educated, worldly immigrant of color, I have found native-born Americans extremely schizophrenic in behavior. On the one hand, native-born Americans happily exploit the benefits of immigration: the contributions to the tax base, the skill set, the work ethic, and the visionary abilities that immigrants disproportionately bring to the table. On the other hand, native-born Americans dislike immigrants of color and do not see us as equals or as people. They resent and envy us the fruits of our labor when we are successful and they begrudge us the right to seek help from the systems we contribute to when we are in need. Even democrats and liberals who consider themselves our "allies" really like us only to the degree we play our assigned roles in their political machinations. Immigrants of color who are conservative can drop dead as far as democrats are concerned. Republicans typically make no bones about their disdain for us and would prefer all of us who are successful be stripped of our property and status.

White immigrants, however, are treated as legitimate Americans almost immediately. Data and experience establish that my recently naturalized blue-collar Romanian friend who has a thick accent has less to fear from ICE than I, an accentless, upper middle class citizen of 30 years. She comes and goes to Romania as she pleases. I am afraid to travel even for work because every time immigration is on the agenda, such as under Obama, Trump I, and now again, I start getting detained for extra vetting, sometimes held in rooms for hours without explanation, by TSA upon returning to the country.

When you come to America as an immigrant of color, you are initially excited about the country because you believe all the positive PR and you can't wait to begin fitting in. Eventually, however, you realize that fully assimilating into this country is not possible because the people do not want you to take your place as one of them. They want to "other" you and hold you at arm's length, pulling you close temporarily only when you can be of use to them as a political talking point, voter, exotic pet, or source of funds.

The result is that immigrants of color like me--who originally had almost exclusive American friends upon moving here, married a white American, lost my accent, and really threw myself into becoming American--find ourselves isolated and really friendless in the moments of life when we really need people to count on. We see our children othered not only by white people, but even by Americans of color, whose perception of us as white people's pets and resentment of our success, pops up at times like college admissions and job hunts.

The rejection and constant slaps force us and our children to open our eyes to the fact that we will never be American in the eyes of native-born Americans, even as they expect us to cut off all ties to our country of origin as part of a neverending loyalty test. We end up realizing that, even after decades here, the only people who are going to show up for us are still the people from our community of origin. So, we end up retreating back into pockets of our communities because that is what any logical human being would do.

It is extremely unfair and dishonest not to take stock of all the ways in which people like you, PP, smear and reject immigrants before announcing we don't want to fit in.

America has to choose between maintaining whiteness as a standard and building a cohesive nation. So far, elevating whiteness is what you are all choosing.

I imagine when you bring your mixed-race children to your country of origin, they, too, experience that sense of not belonging.

PP here. It's understandable you'd imagine that since white people here like to reject half-white children whose other half isn't white. That's not how it works in my country, however.

Well you need to share your country, then. Because I guarantee that once you do, all of its hypocrisy and terrible events will be revealed. Smugness is often the result of ignorance.

You read that lengthy, insightful post and it was so above your intelligence that all you could come away with is this ego-driven, moronic whine? How emblematic of the widespread stupidity and arrogance running our nation into the ground.

The super long generic chatGPT ramble?!?

No one reads that $hit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised that Trump has not signed an EO making English the official language of the United States and that all naturalized citizens must be fluent in English. I would agree with this

Back in the day— 1900-1990 - if your kid showed up at k-12 public school not knowing English they were sent home with a note: Do not return to school until you learn English.

And they would learn it in 2-4 months. On their own and with parent or older children’s help.

But then again those were legal immigrants who had consistently gone to school in their previous country and language. Or were 5 or 6 yo quick learners.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am surprised that Trump has not signed an EO making English the official language of the United States and that all naturalized citizens must be fluent in English. I would agree with this

The fact that you're so stupid and uninformed that you missed not only the executive order, but also the controversy it caused is telling. You're the exact kind of person who would support this kind of measure.

What controversy?

All these BS accommodations for illegals are costly and create perverse behaviors. And beget more entitlement and illegal behaviors (ID fraud, medical fraud, skip car insurance or registration, tax fraud, black market jobs, etc).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think there should be two tiers of citizenship, but I do think the US needs a moratorium on most immigration for at least 50 years. We’ve had way too many immigrants from too many disparate groups and cultures in too short of a period. Now we have Ilhan Omar advocating for her home country of Somalia, we have Mexicans waving the Mexican flag around, we have Indians who only hire other Indians and want to bring in lots more Indians on H1bs when Americans should get priority for those jobs. Each group is fighting for its own group and people, instead of for America.

America used to have a powerful ability to transmogrify immigrants into Anglos. We are quickly losing that ability. Today’s immigrants view America as simply an economic zone where they don’t have to give up loyalty to their home countries and people. It has destroyed social cohesion. We need at least two generations to assimilate the existing immigrants.

Have you considered that people like you--with such unthinkingly racist, hostile and arrogant mindsets--are why immigrants of color have not been able to assimilate?

The previous generations of immigrants who you claim were turned into anglos were WHITE immigrants. That has never been an option for visibly non-white immigrants. There is no pathway for immigrants of color to be accepted in America the way white immigrants were and still are. We are perpetual guests in the minds of people like you and THAT is why we cannot fully assimilate and often give up. It has nothing to do with recency of immigration and everything to do with race in this country.

Speaking as a very well-educated, worldly immigrant of color, I have found native-born Americans extremely schizophrenic in behavior. On the one hand, native-born Americans happily exploit the benefits of immigration: the contributions to the tax base, the skill set, the work ethic, and the visionary abilities that immigrants disproportionately bring to the table. On the other hand, native-born Americans dislike immigrants of color and do not see us as equals or as people. They resent and envy us the fruits of our labor when we are successful and they begrudge us the right to seek help from the systems we contribute to when we are in need. Even democrats and liberals who consider themselves our "allies" really like us only to the degree we play our assigned roles in their political machinations. Immigrants of color who are conservative can drop dead as far as democrats are concerned. Republicans typically make no bones about their disdain for us and would prefer all of us who are successful be stripped of our property and status.

White immigrants, however, are treated as legitimate Americans almost immediately. Data and experience establish that my recently naturalized blue-collar Romanian friend who has a thick accent has less to fear from ICE than I, an accentless, upper middle class citizen of 30 years. She comes and goes to Romania as she pleases. I am afraid to travel even for work because every time immigration is on the agenda, such as under Obama, Trump I, and now again, I start getting detained for extra vetting, sometimes held in rooms for hours without explanation, by TSA upon returning to the country.

When you come to America as an immigrant of color, you are initially excited about the country because you believe all the positive PR and you can't wait to begin fitting in. Eventually, however, you realize that fully assimilating into this country is not possible because the people do not want you to take your place as one of them. They want to "other" you and hold you at arm's length, pulling you close temporarily only when you can be of use to them as a political talking point, voter, exotic pet, or source of funds.

The result is that immigrants of color like me--who originally had almost exclusive American friends upon moving here, married a white American, lost my accent, and really threw myself into becoming American--find ourselves isolated and really friendless in the moments of life when we really need people to count on. We see our children othered not only by white people, but even by Americans of color, whose perception of us as white people's pets and resentment of our success, pops up at times like college admissions and job hunts.

The rejection and constant slaps force us and our children to open our eyes to the fact that we will never be American in the eyes of native-born Americans, even as they expect us to cut off all ties to our country of origin as part of a neverending loyalty test. We end up realizing that, even after decades here, the only people who are going to show up for us are still the people from our community of origin. So, we end up retreating back into pockets of our communities because that is what any logical human being would do.

It is extremely unfair and dishonest not to take stock of all the ways in which people like you, PP, smear and reject immigrants before announcing we don't want to fit in.

America has to choose between maintaining whiteness as a standard and building a cohesive nation. So far, elevating whiteness is what you are all choosing.

I imagine when you bring your mixed-race children to your country of origin, they, too, experience that sense of not belonging.

PP here. It's understandable you'd imagine that since white people here like to reject half-white children whose other half isn't white. That's not how it works in my country, however.

Well you need to share your country, then. Because I guarantee that once you do, all of its hypocrisy and terrible events will be revealed. Smugness is often the result of ignorance.

You read that lengthy, insightful post and it was so above your intelligence that all you could come away with is this ego-driven, moronic whine? How emblematic of the widespread stupidity and arrogance running our nation into the ground.

Ego-driven moronic whine? And a knock against intelligence. Oh my. That will hurt someone's feelings.

When I read responses like yours, I'm convinced you 1) don't operate in the real world or 2) use AI to generate your response. Either way, I'm embarrassed for you.

+1. Glad we all see through that and are on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Wow, this topic sure has brought out the ugly in some people. What nasty, mean-spirited nativists some of you are. But, then again, people like you have always been a part of American history.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An honest discussion...should Natural Born US Citizens have more rights than "Naturalized" US Citizens? Why or Why Not?

This spawns from Trump's goal to strip Naturalized US Citizens from their US Citizenship for criminal offenses.

I'm a Naturalized Citizen myself and it's not just Trump wanting to do this...countries in Europe are all going down the same route.

https://baltimorechronicle.com/world/2025/04/27/europe-expands-citizenship-revocation-for-crimes-and-terrorism/

I'm a dual citizen of the US and a European country. I honestly do think that if a naturalized citizen does a horrific crime either in the US or the country I am from...that stripping the criminal of that citizenship should be on the table. Stripping them of citizenship does not necessarily mean deporting them. Just back to "green card" status - not eligible to vote...make them start all over to gain citizenship - work for it -- meaning no criminal activity for say 1 year in order to be eligible for citizenship. I don't think this is all that crazy.

The only crazy thing is the huge bureaucratic nightmare that it would entail. The principle behind it is sound, but the huge administrative cost this would entail is what IMHO would outweigh the benefit. Lack of cost benefit analysis.

Then there's the sound argument about addressing criminals who are natural born citizens - they get special treatment? It is indeed a slippery slope.

Nothing will change, if you were a naturalized citizen and did something criminal your U.S. citizenship was at risk. Same in other countries. You get deported and exiled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I do not think there should be two tiers of citizenship, but I do think the US needs a moratorium on most immigration for at least 50 years. We’ve had way too many immigrants from too many disparate groups and cultures in too short of a period. Now we have Ilhan Omar advocating for her home country of Somalia, we have Mexicans waving the Mexican flag around, we have Indians who only hire other Indians and want to bring in lots more Indians on H1bs when Americans should get priority for those jobs. Each group is fighting for its own group and people, instead of for America.

America used to have a powerful ability to transmogrify immigrants into Anglos. We are quickly losing that ability. Today’s immigrants view America as simply an economic zone where they don’t have to give up loyalty to their home countries and people. It has destroyed social cohesion. We need at least two generations to assimilate the existing immigrants.

Have you considered that people like you--with such unthinkingly racist, hostile and arrogant mindsets--are why immigrants of color have not been able to assimilate?

The previous generations of immigrants who you claim were turned into anglos were WHITE immigrants. That has never been an option for visibly non-white immigrants. There is no pathway for immigrants of color to be accepted in America the way white immigrants were and still are. We are perpetual guests in the minds of people like you and THAT is why we cannot fully assimilate and often give up. It has nothing to do with recency of immigration and everything to do with race in this country.

Speaking as a very well-educated, worldly immigrant of color, I have found native-born Americans extremely schizophrenic in behavior. On the one hand, native-born Americans happily exploit the benefits of immigration: the contributions to the tax base, the skill set, the work ethic, and the visionary abilities that immigrants disproportionately bring to the table. On the other hand, native-born Americans dislike immigrants of color and do not see us as equals or as people. They resent and envy us the fruits of our labor when we are successful and they begrudge us the right to seek help from the systems we contribute to when we are in need. Even democrats and liberals who consider themselves our "allies" really like us only to the degree we play our assigned roles in their political machinations. Immigrants of color who are conservative can drop dead as far as democrats are concerned. Republicans typically make no bones about their disdain for us and would prefer all of us who are successful be stripped of our property and status.

White immigrants, however, are treated as legitimate Americans almost immediately. Data and experience establish that my recently naturalized blue-collar Romanian friend who has a thick accent has less to fear from ICE than I, an accentless, upper middle class citizen of 30 years. She comes and goes to Romania as she pleases. I am afraid to travel even for work because every time immigration is on the agenda, such as under Obama, Trump I, and now again, I start getting detained for extra vetting, sometimes held in rooms for hours without explanation, by TSA upon returning to the country.

When you come to America as an immigrant of color, you are initially excited about the country because you believe all the positive PR and you can't wait to begin fitting in. Eventually, however, you realize that fully assimilating into this country is not possible because the people do not want you to take your place as one of them. They want to "other" you and hold you at arm's length, pulling you close temporarily only when you can be of use to them as a political talking point, voter, exotic pet, or source of funds.

The result is that immigrants of color like me--who originally had almost exclusive American friends upon moving here, married a white American, lost my accent, and really threw myself into becoming American--find ourselves isolated and really friendless in the moments of life when we really need people to count on. We see our children othered not only by white people, but even by Americans of color, whose perception of us as white people's pets and resentment of our success, pops up at times like college admissions and job hunts.

The rejection and constant slaps force us and our children to open our eyes to the fact that we will never be American in the eyes of native-born Americans, even as they expect us to cut off all ties to our country of origin as part of a neverending loyalty test. We end up realizing that, even after decades here, the only people who are going to show up for us are still the people from our community of origin. So, we end up retreating back into pockets of our communities because that is what any logical human being would do.

It is extremely unfair and dishonest not to take stock of all the ways in which people like you, PP, smear and reject immigrants before announcing we don't want to fit in.

America has to choose between maintaining whiteness as a standard and building a cohesive nation. So far, elevating whiteness is what you are all choosing.

I imagine when you bring your mixed-race children to your country of origin, they, too, experience that sense of not belonging.

PP here. It's understandable you'd imagine that since white people here like to reject half-white children whose other half isn't white. That's not how it works in my country, however.

Well you need to share your country, then. Because I guarantee that once you do, all of its hypocrisy and terrible events will be revealed. Smugness is often the result of ignorance.

You read that lengthy, insightful post and it was so above your intelligence that all you could come away with is this ego-driven, moronic whine? How emblematic of the widespread stupidity and arrogance running our nation into the ground.

The super long generic chatGPT ramble?!?

No one reads that $hit.

Sorry it was above your reader level?