“Highly processed” is so unclear

[Anonymous]

“You have Inflammation” = let me sell You this supplement

“You need a Detox” = also, let me selll yoi this supplement

[Anonymous]

This is OP, I was gone for a long time and one poster is calling people pedantic that aren’t me, which is fine, but the name calling and the “you are stupid” is notably one sided on this whole thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP.

We eat white rice and tortillas. I get that they're highly processed but I'm not willing to give them up. We also eat black beans. I guess not highly processed.

Butter? Cheese? Flour? Steel cut oatmeal? Heavy cream?

None of those foods are what folks refer to as ultra processed. Ultra processed typically refers to prepackaged foods like cheetoes that could only be made through an industrial process in a factory. Cheerios are in the middle. Some things are more processed than others and it seems common sense to me which ones are towards the ultra end. Even OP seems to understand what foods are more processed than others (Cheerios are more processed than oats). The question is deliberately obtuse.

Whether industrial processing is necessarily nutritionally degrading is a reasonable question. I think it makes sense that there’s a general trend towards foods being more palatable and easier to overeat as it becomes more processed. But it doesn’t strike me as insane to think claims about ultra processed foods are overstated by some people.

Cheetohs and Cheerios are yummy.

Part of the Cheerios process infuses vitamins.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree with OP.

We eat white rice and tortillas. I get that they're highly processed but I'm not willing to give them up. We also eat black beans. I guess not highly processed.

Butter? Cheese? Flour? Steel cut oatmeal? Heavy cream?

None of those foods are what folks refer to as ultra processed. Ultra processed typically refers to prepackaged foods like cheetoes that could only be made through an industrial process in a factory. Cheerios are in the middle. Some things are more processed than others and it seems common sense to me which ones are towards the ultra end. Even OP seems to understand what foods are more processed than others (Cheerios are more processed than oats). The question is deliberately obtuse.

Whether industrial processing is necessarily nutritionally degrading is a reasonable question. I think it makes sense that there’s a general trend towards foods being more palatable and easier to overeat as it becomes more processed. But it doesn’t strike me as insane to think claims about ultra processed foods are overstated by some people.

Cheetohs and Cheerios are yummy.

Part of the Cheerios process infuses vitamins.

Adding vitamins, aka fortifying, is processing. Is it highly processed when you add random "chemicals?"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

Bananas are picked green so they are sturdy enough for shipping and chemically ripened.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chemically-ripened-bananas/

For reasons ranging from transportation logistics to visual aesthetics, most commercial bananas are picked well before they are ripe and triggered to ripen in concert by being exposed to trace levels of ethylene gas in a specialized, climate-controlled ripening chamber a few days before being distributed for sale in supermarkets.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

Bananas are picked green so they are sturdy enough for shipping and chemically ripened.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chemically-ripened-bananas/

For reasons ranging from transportation logistics to visual aesthetics, most commercial bananas are picked well before they are ripe and triggered to ripen in concert by being exposed to trace levels of ethylene gas in a specialized, climate-controlled ripening chamber a few days before being distributed for sale in supermarkets.

Again, arguing for arguments sake?

That banana is still closer to its natural state than commercial banana bread, or banana candies, which probably don’t even contain actual banana.

So again - banana - banana applesauce - homemade banana bread - commercially made soft banana cookies - banana candy

And if you are worried about bananas being treated with ethylene, then the solution is to only buy locally grown, in season fruits. It’s not a great solution if you like bananas, but is a solution if you are worried about processing of fresh fruit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

Bananas are picked green so they are sturdy enough for shipping and chemically ripened.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chemically-ripened-bananas/

For reasons ranging from transportation logistics to visual aesthetics, most commercial bananas are picked well before they are ripe and triggered to ripen in concert by being exposed to trace levels of ethylene gas in a specialized, climate-controlled ripening chamber a few days before being distributed for sale in supermarkets.

Again, arguing for arguments sake?

That banana is still closer to its natural state than commercial banana bread, or banana candies, which probably don’t even contain actual banana.

So again - banana - banana applesauce - homemade banana bread - commercially made soft banana cookies - banana candy

And if you are worried about bananas being treated with ethylene, then the solution is to only buy locally grown, in season fruits. It’s not a great solution if you like bananas, but is a solution if you are worried about processing of fresh fruit.

Seems like there are two arguments; one, what is processed? Anything that has been manipulated before eating, even cooking, is considering processing of food. That doesn't mean it's always better- raw milk for example.

The food that is "dangerous" or should be considered before consumption is "ultra processed" food- and yes, that is Cheetos. This is not just because of the method but because of the ingredients (so many) and the way that the unprocessed food has been taken and made extremely calorically dense. So you're eating like, a cob of corn in a few cheetos. Or how everyone thinks fake meat is better- but if you look at the ingredient list- is it? This is a great article from the Post that explains it better than me: https://wapo.st/4dMDqFC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

Bananas are picked green so they are sturdy enough for shipping and chemically ripened.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chemically-ripened-bananas/

For reasons ranging from transportation logistics to visual aesthetics, most commercial bananas are picked well before they are ripe and triggered to ripen in concert by being exposed to trace levels of ethylene gas in a specialized, climate-controlled ripening chamber a few days before being distributed for sale in supermarkets.

Again, arguing for arguments sake?

That banana is still closer to its natural state than commercial banana bread, or banana candies, which probably don’t even contain actual banana.

So again - banana - banana applesauce - homemade banana bread - commercially made soft banana cookies - banana candy

And if you are worried about bananas being treated with ethylene, then the solution is to only buy locally grown, in season fruits. It’s not a great solution if you like bananas, but is a solution if you are worried about processing of fresh fruit.

Seems like there are two arguments; one, what is processed? Anything that has been manipulated before eating, even cooking, is considering processing of food. That doesn't mean it's always better- raw milk for example.

The food that is "dangerous" or should be considered before consumption is "ultra processed" food- and yes, that is Cheetos. This is not just because of the method but because of the ingredients (so many) and the way that the unprocessed food has been taken and made extremely calorically dense. So you're eating like, a cob of corn in a few cheetos. Or how everyone thinks fake meat is better- but if you look at the ingredient list- is it? This is a great article from the Post that explains it better than me: https://wapo.st/4dMDqFC

Apparently, that is not the definition of processed according to one or two posters. Bananas, oats, and milk are not processed because what happens to make those foods edible is "normal."

I don't think you can use calorically dense or number of ingredients as a primary definition for ultra processed. An apple or orange is calorically dense, but it's really just a single ingredient. Fortified flour has a laundry list of ingredients.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is OP, I was gone for a long time and one poster is calling people pedantic that aren’t me, which is fine, but the name calling and the “you are stupid” is notably one sided on this whole thread.

Obviously. Only one side of this thread is stupid. (And because that’s your side I’d better tell you explicitly)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

Okay but a banana is a great example, because it technically comes from a plant, right? But the plants are all cloned and grafted. They've been bred to be triploid to make them seedless. And so the fruit is way bigger and sweeter. And they're cultivated using chemicals and other dubious agricultural processes to make them cheap for our market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

Bananas are picked green so they are sturdy enough for shipping and chemically ripened.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chemically-ripened-bananas/

For reasons ranging from transportation logistics to visual aesthetics, most commercial bananas are picked well before they are ripe and triggered to ripen in concert by being exposed to trace levels of ethylene gas in a specialized, climate-controlled ripening chamber a few days before being distributed for sale in supermarkets.

Otoh, this is a process I can replicate in my kitchen by putting green bananas in a paper bag with an apple. And it would not be inaccurate to describe my bag as "a specialized, climate controlled ripening chamber with trace levels of ethylene gas."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP, I was gone for a long time and one poster is calling people pedantic that aren’t me, which is fine, but the name calling and the “you are stupid” is notably one sided on this whole thread.

Obviously. Only one side of this thread is stupid. (And because that’s your side I’d better tell you explicitly)

DP. I think people curtly shutting down discussion using insults is tragically stupid. I like OP's train of thought. I'm the PP who said that there's a lot of money at stake here with an interest in confusing people. $$

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP, I was gone for a long time and one poster is calling people pedantic that aren’t me, which is fine, but the name calling and the “you are stupid” is notably one sided on this whole thread.

Obviously. Only one side of this thread is stupid. (And because that’s your side I’d better tell you explicitly)

DP. I think people curtly shutting down discussion using insults is tragically stupid. I like OP's train of thought. I'm the PP who said that there's a lot of money at stake here with an interest in confusing people. $$

If you think there is more money to be made on the side of convincing people to eat food closer to its natural state, you are as stupid as OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is OP, I was gone for a long time and one poster is calling people pedantic that aren’t me, which is fine, but the name calling and the “you are stupid” is notably one sided on this whole thread.

Obviously. Only one side of this thread is stupid. (And because that’s your side I’d better tell you explicitly)

DP. I think people curtly shutting down discussion using insults is tragically stupid. I like OP's train of thought. I'm the PP who said that there's a lot of money at stake here with an interest in confusing people. $$

If you think there is more money to be made on the side of convincing people to eat food closer to its natural state, you are as stupid as OP.

Wow you are digging in. There's so much money in the addictive food processing industries. How can you miss the point this much? Where did you connect that there's money to be made in just eating food closer to its natural state? I suggest you engage on a thread where you have valid input and let the grownups speak.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:😱 Americans are really failing at critical thinking

+10000 Yikes

Highly processed is about as meaningful as free range. Is a chicken with access to 1 sq. ft. of outdoor space free range? Yes, it is, by USDA definitions. Is milk highly processed? It's taken from the cow, mixed with other cows' milk, milk fat adjusted, pasteurized, fortified with vitaman D, bottled, and shipped. That doesn't seem like minimal processing. But people accept that processing because it is what they are used to.

Now, we have ultra processed as well. What's the difference between highly and ultra processed? There's no definitions for any of this and the labels are applied whenever someone needs to win an argument.

I am sorry to be such a shallow thinker. Please enlighten me with your critical thoughts.

Well, that’s not completely true. I mean, there’s a whole internet you can use instead of DCUM but it seems you want to argue more than to actually find information

https://ecuphysicians.ecu.edu/wp-content/pv-uploads/sites/78/2021/07/NOVA-Classification-Reference-Sheet.pdf

So that's an international or US standard?

There is “standard” unless there are regulations.

I can see from your further lists that you’re bothered this was a from a Brazilian study, but can’t seem to be able to extrapolate into your own life. I look at the actually information on the slides and I don’t see anything that’s culturally biased.


Can you imagine how hard it is to be a female POC anywhere and thinking pharmaceutical dosages apply to you? This is such an odd thing to troll about. For lat least 20 years, people have been told to just shop the outside of the grocery store in order to encounter the least amount of processed foods. It’s not a perfect strategy, but it still seems to apply so many years later.

And the fact that you’re blah blazing about data shows you’re again being obtuse, argumentative and trolling and not a “Normal person” like you’re trying to pretend to be. Normal
People can figure out the difference in processing, but have many life choices to make that may override the processing component with regards to health and diet. This includes having to choose what is locally and readily available to you from a shopping and preparing standpoint.

And dragging in the palatable
Thing is also a straw man. Ultra processed foods are designed to be ultra palatable. That’s easy when you have science on your side.

I’m not sure your actual point in this, but it’s annoying. Normal people can easily tell what’s processed or not, but that doesn’t mean that’s always an accessible product for them. It’s not that people can’t tell, it’s that things are set up to make the one that makes money for corporations cheaper, easier, and more delicious.

I can't follow the logic presented.

As for Black women (and men) and pharmaceutical doses, yeah, you should be somewhat concerned. The study groups are typically composed of young, white, college-age men of Western European descent. That industry gets all sorts of surprises when the general population finally gets access. Not sure what this has to do with the term "highly processed."

All food is processed. Currently, we have some indeterminate labels, such as "highly" and "ultra" processed. While you believe the general population has a good grasp on the differences, I don't believe that's true. Some PP seems to think Velveta is "processed." It's not even legally classified as cheese; it's a "cheese product." Velveeta was created at a time when store refrigeration and timely shipping were not common. It's pasteurized, which makes it shelf-stable, and reasonably palatable--a miracle that brought a consistent "cheese" to the masses. I wouldn't call it particularly cheese-flavored, but it lasts "forever" compared to a hunk of cheddar.

All food is not processed. You seem to be using this as an excuse to throw your hands up and say “oh well, I give up.” So give up already. No one cares what you eat. But just because you can’t comprehend nuance doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

All food is processed to some degree or another. If you aren't walking out to the field yourself, you are relying on industrial agriculture practices which includes processing, usually to extend shelf life. I understand nuance. I don't understand where the line is between minimally, highly, and ultra processed.

A banana is not processed. I don’t need to grow the banana to know that it’s not processed. What do you not understand about this?

Bananas are picked green so they are sturdy enough for shipping and chemically ripened.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/chemically-ripened-bananas/

For reasons ranging from transportation logistics to visual aesthetics, most commercial bananas are picked well before they are ripe and triggered to ripen in concert by being exposed to trace levels of ethylene gas in a specialized, climate-controlled ripening chamber a few days before being distributed for sale in supermarkets.

Again, arguing for arguments sake?

That banana is still closer to its natural state than commercial banana bread, or banana candies, which probably don’t even contain actual banana.

So again - banana - banana applesauce - homemade banana bread - commercially made soft banana cookies - banana candy

And if you are worried about bananas being treated with ethylene, then the solution is to only buy locally grown, in season fruits. It’s not a great solution if you like bananas, but is a solution if you are worried about processing of fresh fruit.

Seems like there are two arguments; one, what is processed? Anything that has been manipulated before eating, even cooking, is considering processing of food. That doesn't mean it's always better- raw milk for example.

The food that is "dangerous" or should be considered before consumption is "ultra processed" food- and yes, that is Cheetos. This is not just because of the method but because of the ingredients (so many) and the way that the unprocessed food has been taken and made extremely calorically dense. So you're eating like, a cob of corn in a few cheetos. Or how everyone thinks fake meat is better- but if you look at the ingredient list- is it? This is a great article from the Post that explains it better than me: https://wapo.st/4dMDqFC

There are other reasons people choose fake meat over real meat, but I suppose that’s lost. I think people would be shocked to see what real meat actually contains if they added in everything that gets fed and processed into a cow. 🐮 f course, the ingredient will just be “cow” but they don’t consider all the plants that they’re shrieking about being unnatural in this thread going into that cow to stay with.