Reasonable careers for Math Major

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The NSA hires mathematicians right out of college for cryptoanalysis and analytic programs.

from BYU

So? I am not Mormon/LDS or agree with them on may issues. Back before the Iron Curtain came down, I was recruited by the NSA with an undergrad applied math degree. You could not have any relatives in non-USA friendly countries. That excluded a lot my fellow math majors. They were hot to trot when they found out that I had no relatives oversees. I am sure it is the same way for the Mormons who can trace their roots back to 1840s. Plus I am sure it is a plus if they did a mission in a non-English speaking area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of DS's friends was a math major and now he works for the CIA. No idea of the specific job.

This is the answer. And NSA, who actually specifically recruits math majors.

doing what?

Crypto's basically fancy math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid considering a physics or math major and wonder the same thing. I think an engineering or applied math degree would be more practical, but I get why DC is more interested in studying physics or pure math. I hope that the pure physics or math degree will open doors for jobs or grad school if paired with a practical minor.

Be clear-eyed on what he's going to do after undergrad. We have two kids in our extended family that went to CMU - one for math and one for physics - and both struggled to get jobs after undergrad. One of them did a minor in CS (he stayed an extra semester to get the courses needed) before he landed a programming gig and the other (math) I think went on to grad school. This was during the CS boom days, pre-covid.

This is worth noting. Both math and physics are degrees that require selling yourself to employers. There are people around here that suggest these are the mark of genius and some sort of automatic pass. Not true, hiring mangers still need to see boxes checked, and that's assuming the resume makes it into the stack in the first place. Many people still see these as navel gazing degrees. When they say you must be smart they just can't think of anything else to say. And they are not wrong, extra study without practical application is not a flex.

I hate that HR departments do this. If I have two ambitious students who both have potential, but one studied math instead of econ, I'm now more interested into why they're interested. It makes no sense to weed out people by major just because they didn't study something perfectly aligned with the company-plus it's not like most of an economics major is any less navel gazing.

dp.. that is your opinion, but this is how the game is played in the real world. If I'm wanting to hire someone who understand Econ, I'm going to want someone who can hit the ground running, who already understands the terminology and concepts rather than someone I have to train, even as I know that person can be trained.

A cousin was a physics major at Cal eons ago. Couldn't find a job after graduation so they got a masters in EE.

Can't do much with a Physics undergrad degree. Math is a bit better. BTW, my DC is a dual CS/math major, and they know that math alone means it would be harder to find a job. They love math (like, really love it and does it for fun) and wanted to continue doing math in college, so that's why they decided to dual major.

I get its the reality of the market, but I think they're wrong, especially with the way you are describing it. Many of the econ majors know zilch about actual corporate practice or lingo, unless they learned it off wso. I like the approach by Citadel where they'll basically take on whoever is the smartest in the applicant pool and through em in a quick boot camp to get them knowledgeable on markets. Often, the leaders in industry train their talent and don't expect the moon and beyond from people who just entered. Most corps also aren't looking for people who "know econ" but know finance or accounting. Undergrad econ is really not that sophisticated.

I agree with this, but it can be somewhat hard to figure out who is "smartest" because sometimes the pure math/physics people really have a hard time generating to applied concepts and thus really are only smart in their narrow strand. I think dual major or major + applied concentration or track record of applied projects shows that you can move out of the "pure" realm. Adding a statistics concentration or even a few key statistics courses + work on a statistic project is a good strategy for math majors because you'll get applied experience and statistic software expertise (likely R at this point). Universities are chock full of faculty wanting statistical help on projects--go outside of your department.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What level of college/program? What minor? What electives? What personal skilled interests/hobbies?

Undergrad in pure math is a professionally useless liberal art degree. It's a gateway to science and technology like History is for law school applications. It's a general foundational education, not vocational. It's an enhancer to your other skills, not a skill in itself.
You need to combine it with something.

Entry level jobs include actuary, auditor, something in data analysis, teacher in a district desperate for staff.
If you have a secondary interest, more options open.

you people are utterly clueless, this is why you don’t get your advice from the bone heads of DCUM.

This is a pretty reasonable response actually. The people who go from math degree to CS are overwelmingly CS double majors or students who had a deep interest in computer science. You don't walk into a computer science career willy nilly and do need the technical skills. Combinatorics and Galois Theory doesn't just create Python script alone.

IDK about that. I was required to program in my 400 level math classes and "walked" into a IT job straight from undergraduate Math.

DP. +1. My kid is a Jr math pure math and just walked into an AI job that pays $50/hr

Can you please come back and let us know the name of the company and the job title?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What level of college/program? What minor? What electives? What personal skilled interests/hobbies?

Undergrad in pure math is a professionally useless liberal art degree. It's a gateway to science and technology like History is for law school applications. It's a general foundational education, not vocational. It's an enhancer to your other skills, not a skill in itself.
You need to combine it with something.

Entry level jobs include actuary, auditor, something in data analysis, teacher in a district desperate for staff.
If you have a secondary interest, more options open.

you people are utterly clueless, this is why you don’t get your advice from the bone heads of DCUM.

This is a pretty reasonable response actually. The people who go from math degree to CS are overwelmingly CS double majors or students who had a deep interest in computer science. You don't walk into a computer science career willy nilly and do need the technical skills. Combinatorics and Galois Theory doesn't just create Python script alone.

IDK about that. I was required to program in my 400 level math classes and "walked" into a IT job straight from undergraduate Math.

DP. +1. My kid is a Jr math pure math and just walked into an AI job that pays $50/hr

Can you please come back and let us know the name of the company and the job title?

Is that supposed to be a lot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What level of college/program? What minor? What electives? What personal skilled interests/hobbies?

Undergrad in pure math is a professionally useless liberal art degree. It's a gateway to science and technology like History is for law school applications. It's a general foundational education, not vocational. It's an enhancer to your other skills, not a skill in itself.
You need to combine it with something.

Entry level jobs include actuary, auditor, something in data analysis, teacher in a district desperate for staff.
If you have a secondary interest, more options open.

you people are utterly clueless, this is why you don’t get your advice from the bone heads of DCUM.

This is a pretty reasonable response actually. The people who go from math degree to CS are overwelmingly CS double majors or students who had a deep interest in computer science. You don't walk into a computer science career willy nilly and do need the technical skills. Combinatorics and Galois Theory doesn't just create Python script alone.

IDK about that. I was required to program in my 400 level math classes and "walked" into a IT job straight from undergraduate Math.

DP. +1. My kid is a Jr math pure math and just walked into an AI job that pays $50/hr

Can you please come back and let us know the name of the company and the job title?

Is that supposed to be a lot?

96k entry level right out of college? How many people do you think start on that foot?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What level of college/program? What minor? What electives? What personal skilled interests/hobbies?

Undergrad in pure math is a professionally useless liberal art degree. It's a gateway to science and technology like History is for law school applications. It's a general foundational education, not vocational. It's an enhancer to your other skills, not a skill in itself.
You need to combine it with something.

Entry level jobs include actuary, auditor, something in data analysis, teacher in a district desperate for staff.
If you have a secondary interest, more options open.

you people are utterly clueless, this is why you don’t get your advice from the bone heads of DCUM.

This is a pretty reasonable response actually. The people who go from math degree to CS are overwelmingly CS double majors or students who had a deep interest in computer science. You don't walk into a computer science career willy nilly and do need the technical skills. Combinatorics and Galois Theory doesn't just create Python script alone.

IDK about that. I was required to program in my 400 level math classes and "walked" into a IT job straight from undergraduate Math.

DP. +1. My kid is a Jr math pure math and just walked into an AI job that pays $50/hr

Can you please come back and let us know the name of the company and the job title?

Is that supposed to be a lot?

96k entry level right out of college? How many people do you think start on that foot?

She's not even out of college. Got this job as a sophomore and is a rising junior.

[Anonymous]

I majored in math and econ, got an M.B.A., and worked for a broker-dealer on Wall Street.

Many "math" majors actually study statistics or applied math. Math and especially physics majors are low-maintenance. They are comfortable with computers, different operating systems, and learning new software.

Economics majors don't learn much about business. They don't know debits from credits, or stocks from bonds. Business majors don't know much, but they can wear a suit and understand the job. You don't need to be a business major. But that does not excuse you from being ignorant about the company and job. If you are applying to Wall Street, then you need to understand the difference between investment banking and sales and trading. You need to read the company's annual report, etc.

Math majors can easily pass the first two or three actuary exams. It is an excellent high-paying, low-stress occupation.

My math major friends at NSA did a lot of IT work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I majored in math and econ, got an M.B.A., and worked for a broker-dealer on Wall Street.

Many "math" majors actually study statistics or applied math. Math and especially physics majors are low-maintenance. They are comfortable with computers, different operating systems, and learning new software.

Economics majors don't learn much about business. They don't know debits from credits, or stocks from bonds. Business majors don't know much, but they can wear a suit and understand the job. You don't need to be a business major. But that does not excuse you from being ignorant about the company and job. If you are applying to Wall Street, then you need to understand the difference between investment banking and sales and trading. You need to read the company's annual report, etc.

Math majors can easily pass the first two or three actuary exams. It is an excellent high-paying, low-stress occupation.

My math major friends at NSA did a lot of IT work.

Is there a big advantage in getting an applied math degree vs a pure math degree for job prospects? I have a mathy, navel-grazing kid, whom I'd like to steer towards a sensible path.

[Anonymous]

^^^Oops, navel-gazing*

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I majored in math and econ, got an M.B.A., and worked for a broker-dealer on Wall Street.

Many "math" majors actually study statistics or applied math. Math and especially physics majors are low-maintenance. They are comfortable with computers, different operating systems, and learning new software.

Economics majors don't learn much about business. They don't know debits from credits, or stocks from bonds. Business majors don't know much, but they can wear a suit and understand the job. You don't need to be a business major. But that does not excuse you from being ignorant about the company and job. If you are applying to Wall Street, then you need to understand the difference between investment banking and sales and trading. You need to read the company's annual report, etc.

Math majors can easily pass the first two or three actuary exams. It is an excellent high-paying, low-stress occupation.

My math major friends at NSA did a lot of IT work.

Is there a big advantage in getting an applied math degree vs a pure math degree for job prospects? I have a mathy, navel-grazing kid, whom I'd like to steer towards a sensible path.

I don’t think so if you are talking undergrad level. Any entry level “mathy” jobs would be accessible to either.

Also, (again talking only entry level, just graduated from college jobs) in my experience some pps are underestimating the “you must be really smart” aspect. Not saying it’s valid but things like math and physics intimidate lots of people and I think these grads get a little boost at the beginning because of people assuming they must be very bright.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I majored in math and econ, got an M.B.A., and worked for a broker-dealer on Wall Street.

Many "math" majors actually study statistics or applied math. Math and especially physics majors are low-maintenance. They are comfortable with computers, different operating systems, and learning new software.

Economics majors don't learn much about business. They don't know debits from credits, or stocks from bonds. Business majors don't know much, but they can wear a suit and understand the job. You don't need to be a business major. But that does not excuse you from being ignorant about the company and job. If you are applying to Wall Street, then you need to understand the difference between investment banking and sales and trading. You need to read the company's annual report, etc.

Math majors can easily pass the first two or three actuary exams. It is an excellent high-paying, low-stress occupation.

My math major friends at NSA did a lot of IT work.

Is there a big advantage in getting an applied math degree vs a pure math degree for job prospects? I have a mathy, navel-grazing kid, whom I'd like to steer towards a sensible path.

I don’t think so if you are talking undergrad level. Any entry level “mathy” jobs would be accessible to either.

Also, (again talking only entry level, just graduated from college jobs) in my experience some pps are underestimating the “you must be really smart” aspect. Not saying it’s valid but things like math and physics intimidate lots of people and I think these grads get a little boost at the beginning because of people assuming they must be very bright.

People who have that level of understanding tend to apply this reasoning to boys only

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a kid considering a physics or math major and wonder the same thing. I think an engineering or applied math degree would be more practical, but I get why DC is more interested in studying physics or pure math. I hope that the pure physics or math degree will open doors for jobs or grad school if paired with a practical minor.

Be clear-eyed on what he's going to do after undergrad. We have two kids in our extended family that went to CMU - one for math and one for physics - and both struggled to get jobs after undergrad. One of them did a minor in CS (he stayed an extra semester to get the courses needed) before he landed a programming gig and the other (math) I think went on to grad school. This was during the CS boom days, pre-covid.

This is worth noting. Both math and physics are degrees that require selling yourself to employers. There are people around here that suggest these are the mark of genius and some sort of automatic pass. Not true, hiring mangers still need to see boxes checked, and that's assuming the resume makes it into the stack in the first place. Many people still see these as navel gazing degrees. When they say you must be smart they just can't think of anything else to say. And they are not wrong, extra study without practical application is not a flex.

I hate that HR departments do this. If I have two ambitious students who both have potential, but one studied math instead of econ, I'm now more interested into why they're interested. It makes no sense to weed out people by major just because they didn't study something perfectly aligned with the company-plus it's not like most of an economics major is any less navel gazing.

dp.. that is your opinion, but this is how the game is played in the real world. If I'm wanting to hire someone who understand Econ, I'm going to want someone who can hit the ground running, who already understands the terminology and concepts rather than someone I have to train, even as I know that person can be trained.

A cousin was a physics major at Cal eons ago. Couldn't find a job after graduation so they got a masters in EE.

Can't do much with a Physics undergrad degree. Math is a bit better. BTW, my DC is a dual CS/math major, and they know that math alone means it would be harder to find a job. They love math (like, really love it and does it for fun) and wanted to continue doing math in college, so that's why they decided to dual major.

This is my kid, thanks for your comment. Also tying to talk him out of a pure Math major.

[Anonymous]

3-4 CS electives and at least one class in stats, some good internships, it's easy to find work as a software developer, actuary, etc. as a pure math major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I majored in math and econ, got an M.B.A., and worked for a broker-dealer on Wall Street.

Many "math" majors actually study statistics or applied math. Math and especially physics majors are low-maintenance. They are comfortable with computers, different operating systems, and learning new software.

Economics majors don't learn much about business. They don't know debits from credits, or stocks from bonds. Business majors don't know much, but they can wear a suit and understand the job. You don't need to be a business major. But that does not excuse you from being ignorant about the company and job. If you are applying to Wall Street, then you need to understand the difference between investment banking and sales and trading. You need to read the company's annual report, etc.

Math majors can easily pass the first two or three actuary exams. It is an excellent high-paying, low-stress occupation.

My math major friends at NSA did a lot of IT work.

Is there a big advantage in getting an applied math degree vs a pure math degree for job prospects? I have a mathy, navel-grazing kid, whom I'd like to steer towards a sensible path.

I don’t think so if you are talking undergrad level. Any entry level “mathy” jobs would be accessible to either.

Also, (again talking only entry level, just graduated from college jobs) in my experience some pps are underestimating the “you must be really smart” aspect. Not saying it’s valid but things like math and physics intimidate lots of people and I think these grads get a little boost at the beginning because of people assuming they must be very bright.

People who have that level of understanding tend to apply this reasoning to boys only

My math/physics-loving kid happens to be a girl, and this is my concern too.