ACLU sues Jackson-Reed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This the same school that indefinitely postponed readings of Maus and Night earlier this year. Is the JSU sewing too? Why don’t the groups get together and do a collective old fashioned sit in? Seems like a better use of resources. Where are the adults? Oh wait, the ACLU.

https://thejackson-reedbeacon.com/21675/news/students-teachers-struggle-to-discuss-israel-hamas-war/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/19/schools-speech-israel-gaza-protest/

"Five teachers met with Assistant Principal Marc Minsker, who oversees the English department, to discuss the delay of reading 'Night and Maus.' Minsker said that teachers were struggling with how to teach 'because [the conflict is] a sensitive topic right now.'

The department decided to postpone reading the books until tensions decreased."

Wow. I thought people were exaggerating.

So the school postponed/cancelled indefinitely the Holocaust lessons?

No. As mentioned upthread, Night and Maus were taught last month—as planned when the teachers originally requested the delay so that they could prepare lessons that took the current context into account.

How did they change lessons to take "current context" into account? I'm having trouble understanding why the current conflict has/had anything to do with teaching Holocaust literature.

I'm guessing that teachers were concerned that, in teaching material about the holocaust, some students would bring up the current war and whether the Israeli actions constitute genocide or not. Understandably that would put teachers in a very difficult position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

Highlighting this. Freedom of speech - until you cross the line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This the same school that indefinitely postponed readings of Maus and Night earlier this year. Is the JSU sewing too? Why don’t the groups get together and do a collective old fashioned sit in? Seems like a better use of resources. Where are the adults? Oh wait, the ACLU.

https://thejackson-reedbeacon.com/21675/news/students-teachers-struggle-to-discuss-israel-hamas-war/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/19/schools-speech-israel-gaza-protest/

"Five teachers met with Assistant Principal Marc Minsker, who oversees the English department, to discuss the delay of reading 'Night and Maus.' Minsker said that teachers were struggling with how to teach 'because [the conflict is] a sensitive topic right now.'

The department decided to postpone reading the books until tensions decreased."

Wow. I thought people were exaggerating.

So the school postponed/cancelled indefinitely the Holocaust lessons?

No. As mentioned upthread, Night and Maus were taught last month—as planned when the teachers originally requested the delay so that they could prepare lessons that took the current context into account.

How did they change lessons to take "current context" into account? I'm having trouble understanding why the current conflict has/had anything to do with teaching Holocaust literature.

I'm guessing that teachers were concerned that, in teaching material about the holocaust, some students would bring up the current war and whether the Israeli actions constitute genocide or not. Understandably that would put teachers in a very difficult position.

How did the adapted lessons go, does anyone know? I hope teachers were prepared to discuss the Holocaust and how it is or isn't similar to the current war; otherwise, I don't really see any reason to have delayed this unit.

[Anonymous]

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yeah, agree with ACLU on this. If the group did something anti-semitic or hateful, fine, but shutting them down specifically because they want to speak up about a war seems inappropriate.

I don't think this article provides enough information about the planned events or materials to be distributed to be able to say if it was antisemitic/hateful or not.

Yes, it does. There are links at the bottom of the page that link directly to the materials in question.

[Anonymous]

The kids are alright! I support the lawsuit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This the same school that indefinitely postponed readings of Maus and Night earlier this year. Is the JSU sewing too? Why don’t the groups get together and do a collective old fashioned sit in? Seems like a better use of resources. Where are the adults? Oh wait, the ACLU.

https://thejackson-reedbeacon.com/21675/news/students-teachers-struggle-to-discuss-israel-hamas-war/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/19/schools-speech-israel-gaza-protest/

"Five teachers met with Assistant Principal Marc Minsker, who oversees the English department, to discuss the delay of reading 'Night and Maus.' Minsker said that teachers were struggling with how to teach 'because [the conflict is] a sensitive topic right now.'

The department decided to postpone reading the books until tensions decreased."

Wow. I thought people were exaggerating.

So the school postponed/cancelled indefinitely the Holocaust lessons?

No. As mentioned upthread, Night and Maus were taught last month—as planned when the teachers originally requested the delay so that they could prepare lessons that took the current context into account.

The current context to the Holocaust in the 40s? No. The context has not changed. That is ridiculous. Current events can be taught through a lense that reflects the past but the past cannot be changed based on current events and politics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This the same school that indefinitely postponed readings of Maus and Night earlier this year. Is the JSU sewing too? Why don’t the groups get together and do a collective old fashioned sit in? Seems like a better use of resources. Where are the adults? Oh wait, the ACLU.

https://thejackson-reedbeacon.com/21675/news/students-teachers-struggle-to-discuss-israel-hamas-war/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/19/schools-speech-israel-gaza-protest/

"Five teachers met with Assistant Principal Marc Minsker, who oversees the English department, to discuss the delay of reading 'Night and Maus.' Minsker said that teachers were struggling with how to teach 'because [the conflict is] a sensitive topic right now.'

The department decided to postpone reading the books until tensions decreased."

Wow. I thought people were exaggerating.

So the school postponed/cancelled indefinitely the Holocaust lessons?

No. As mentioned upthread, Night and Maus were taught last month—as planned when the teachers originally requested the delay so that they could prepare lessons that took the current context into account.

The current context to the Holocaust in the 40s? No. The context has not changed. That is ridiculous. Current events can be taught through a lense that reflects the past but the past cannot be changed based on current events and politics.

Come on. You can’t be this dumb. It’s tough to talk about the implications of Holocaust literature—written in large part to document the horror and ensure it never happened again—without talking about what’s going on right now. Students have questions and thoughts, and teachers wanted to make sure they could facilitate conversations sensitively and productively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

There’s an 84 minute “uncut” version as well with much more controversial material…not sure which one the students were planning to show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This the same school that indefinitely postponed readings of Maus and Night earlier this year. Is the JSU sewing too? Why don’t the groups get together and do a collective old fashioned sit in? Seems like a better use of resources. Where are the adults? Oh wait, the ACLU.

https://thejackson-reedbeacon.com/21675/news/students-teachers-struggle-to-discuss-israel-hamas-war/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2023/12/19/schools-speech-israel-gaza-protest/

"Five teachers met with Assistant Principal Marc Minsker, who oversees the English department, to discuss the delay of reading 'Night and Maus.' Minsker said that teachers were struggling with how to teach 'because [the conflict is] a sensitive topic right now.'

The department decided to postpone reading the books until tensions decreased."

Wow. I thought people were exaggerating.

So the school postponed/cancelled indefinitely the Holocaust lessons?

No. As mentioned upthread, Night and Maus were taught last month—as planned when the teachers originally requested the delay so that they could prepare lessons that took the current context into account.

The current context to the Holocaust in the 40s? No. The context has not changed. That is ridiculous. Current events can be taught through a lense that reflects the past but the past cannot be changed based on current events and politics.

It feels like the "context" is getting closer and closer to denying the Holocaust. It's pretty disturbing.

[Anonymous]

Interesting article here….

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/occupation-of-the-american-mind-documentary/

As a Jewish parent, I would be 100 percent fine with this film being shown by the student group. Having said that, I defend the school’s position of making sure that student groups follow rules and that the school gets a chance to consider how materials might disrupt or interfere with the school environment. Just like they did with the holocaust material, it seems legit for the principal to not grant permission to show this on school grounds until there has been some dialogue around its sensitivities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

Jeff left a LOT out - namely the complete denial that Hamas is anti-semitic.

[jsteele]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

jsteele wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The movie they wanted to show, Occupation of the American Mind, is very anti-semitic. It is narrated by Roger Waters who now freely wears Nazi uniforms to his concerts.

This is disturbing. How did we get here?

I just took the time to watch the video that the students want to show. You can watch it yourself here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jKRwdsq-As

It is only 49 minutes long.

Let me clear up some misconceptions. The movie is not anti-Semitic, let along "very" anti-Semitic. Does it portray the Israeli government's point of view? Of course not. Many supporters of Israel will object to parts of its content. I suspect that even some supporters of the Palestinians will quibble about parts. That's the nature of the conflict. But it is a very solid and accurate discussion of Israel's occupation and the ways in which US public opinion has been influenced.

Roger Waters has clearly overstepped the bounds of what I personally consider appropriate and can legitimately be accused of antisemitism. However, he has very little to do with this film. Most of the movie is not, in fact, narrated. Rather various speakers talk for themselves.

There is no mention of the "Jewish lobby" as stated earlier in this thread. The harshest critic of the pro-Israel lobby is a former AIPAC staffer. The movie accurately points out that most American Jews don't support Israel's hardline policies and that many of Israel's US supporters are not Jewish. One speaker explicitly said that Israel has not brainwashed Americans. While pro-Israel political influence and the impact of pro-Israel financial contributions are described, the point is made that none of the pro-Israel political activities are unusual. This actually rejects common anti-Semitic tropes about cabals of Jews secretly controlling Americans.

Ironically, toward the end of the video there is a discussion about the need to confront student activists who are not as supportive of Israel as are older Americans. In fact, many of the tactics that Israel's supporters are accused by the film of using are actually demonstrated in this thread.

Anyone interested in this discussion should take the time to watch the video and come to their own conclusions. For my part, I see no reason to prevent this film from being presented at school.

Thank you for the detailed review.

There’s an 84 minute “uncut” version as well with much more controversial material…not sure which one the students were planning to show.

They planned to show the short version, which is the version to which I linked. That was included in the ACLU press release.