Study of elite college Admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tuition is far too low. Elite colleges should use their position of power to act as private taxing authorities, charging 5-10% of family wealth (total for whole degree) for all students.

They don't have to. The rich students already pay for the less rich students. But in this area, the parents in the $1m+ houses want everything for free.

No one has argued that MC/UMC tuition should be "free". You're just making sh-- up now. They are saying it should at least be accessible.

And FTR, we are absolutely priced out of those schools -my child is turning one down for that reason, which is extremely painful- and we do not live in a million dollar house. We bought our starter for about $300K and stayed in it (didn't trade up).

DP what do you want the price to be? what are you willing to pay?

Something reasonably attainable for MC families. Sorry, I'm not giving a number. But something that allows people to "stretch" if they want to do so w/o making it prohibitively expensive. There's a difference between $50K, which is already quite high, and $80-90K/year.

But you already know this so why are you being obtuse?

So go to the school you can afford. I am not wealthy but we saved bc we wanted to make any college available to our kids. I do not feel bad that you did not save on or made a plan like many of us on this board did. And no, I do not think you should get a discount just because you are whining about it. I don’t whine that I cannot stay at the elite hotels like Four Seasons when the Hilton is just fine. As many on DCUM have said, your child will get a perfectly good education anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tuition is far too low. Elite colleges should use their position of power to act as private taxing authorities, charging 5-10% of family wealth (total for whole degree) for all students.

They don't have to. The rich students already pay for the less rich students. But in this area, the parents in the $1m+ houses want everything for free.

No one has argued that MC/UMC tuition should be "free". You're just making sh-- up now. They are saying it should at least be accessible.

And FTR, we are absolutely priced out of those schools -my child is turning one down for that reason, which is extremely painful- and we do not live in a million dollar house. We bought our starter for about $300K and stayed in it (didn't trade up).

DP what do you want the price to be? what are you willing to pay?

Something reasonably attainable for MC families. Sorry, I'm not giving a number. But something that allows people to "stretch" if they want to do so w/o making it prohibitively expensive. There's a difference between $50K, which is already quite high, and $80-90K/year.

But you already know this so why are you being obtuse?

So go to the school you can afford. I am not wealthy but we saved bc we wanted to make any college available to our kids. I do not feel bad that you did not save on or made a plan like many of us on this board did. And no, I do not think you should get a discount just because you are whining about it. I don’t whine that I cannot stay at the elite hotels like Four Seasons when the Hilton is just fine. As many on DCUM have said, your child will get a perfectly good education anywhere.

+1. Same. Also, the number of people trying to count to count other people's pennies is astonishing. Do what you can. Don't worry so much about what others are doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already a barbell at the top privates. The kids either have gobs of money (think travel via chartered private jets).... or they are on scholarship. There's no one at these schools with two middle manager parents.

Agree.

The middle is the majority, how come top colleges/privates are not thinking what they are creating? Why high stat kids from MC family gets overlooked for rich or low income families? In other words, kids from MC are being discriminated by top colleges due to not their performance but due to family income.

Because it's a business. And their business priorities are
1) Grow the endowment (richy rich people)
2) Create mobility for the underprivileged (take care of the poor)
Middle-class families are not their priority bc middle-class families can access a college education. It may not be Yale but they can go to Uconn for example.

Middle class is supposed to stay middle class. If they become upper middle class trying to be entry level wealthy, private colleges put them back in middle class with high cost. If they don't go for full pay, their kids can't attend ivies, if they pay ivies, they can't retire in peace.

Yes, that is the reality.
And...........it's not like you're not playing the game. Isn't this why we have a spate of 18-year-olds majoring in CS?

So sacrifice kids at the alter, instead of letting them study what they enjoy and are good at?

DP here. Most CS students I know are CS because their parents picked their major (and school).

Regarding middle class - so it is okay for them to get financial aid and attend private high schools, but it is not okay for them to get financial aid at colleges? Not following.

Who said anything about not receiving aid? Middle-class families can and do receive financial aid from many universities. Especially if their stats are higher than the school's average.
I think the PP is speaking out of both sides of her mouth...
"Education is what matters, let them study what they want to study! Education is what matters!"
[b]"And I want them to go to Yale!!!"
[/b]

PP here. This is the impression I am getting. But to say that students are only at the schools OP mentioned because those students are rich, is telling me that they know little if anything about these schools.

There's someone who knows little but it's you. We are ACTIVELY deciding on some of these school right now. ZERO merit at many of them. And what merit there is, is for truly gifted kids (fine). There is need-based available. Or full pay at in excess of $80K/year. Nothing in between.

Now, you move much further down the "rankings", yes, merit is more readily available. But this thread was about tuition/attendance at ELITE schools.

If you knew about the schools then you also knew there would not be any merit. Why apply someplace you cannot afford? Are you into self torture?

[Anonymous]

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/CollegeAdmissions_Paper.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tuition is far too low. Elite colleges should use their position of power to act as private taxing authorities, charging 5-10% of family wealth (total for whole degree) for all students.

They don't have to. The rich students already pay for the less rich students. But in this area, the parents in the $1m+ houses want everything for free.

No one has argued that MC/UMC tuition should be "free". You're just making sh-- up now. They are saying it should at least be accessible.

And FTR, we are absolutely priced out of those schools -my child is turning one down for that reason, which is extremely painful- and we do not live in a million dollar house. We bought our starter for about $300K and stayed in it (didn't trade up).

DP what do you want the price to be? what are you willing to pay?

Something reasonably attainable for MC families. Sorry, I'm not giving a number. But something that allows people to "stretch" if they want to do so w/o making it prohibitively expensive. There's a difference between $50K, which is already quite high, and $80-90K/year.

But you already know this so why are you being obtuse?

So go to the school you can afford. I am not wealthy but we saved bc we wanted to make any college available to our kids. I do not feel bad that you did not save on or made a plan like many of us on this board did. And no, I do not think you should get a discount just because you are whining about it. I don’t whine that I cannot stay at the elite hotels like Four Seasons when the Hilton is just fine. As many on DCUM have said, your child will get a perfectly good education anywhere.

Screw you. We have saved and saved as much as we can. We have no generational money. And 4 sets of aging parents that we are responsible for. So you know sh-- about what I have saved for and why.

This thread is about elite schools and who is going, and why. Educating our kids. Your attempt at an equivalency of hotels is not the same.

If you're kid can get such a good education at a non top school are you practicing what you preach?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already a barbell at the top privates. The kids either have gobs of money (think travel via chartered private jets).... or they are on scholarship. There's no one at these schools with two middle manager parents.

Agree.

The middle is the majority, how come top colleges/privates are not thinking what they are creating? Why high stat kids from MC family gets overlooked for rich or low income families? In other words, kids from MC are being discriminated by top colleges due to not their performance but due to family income.

Because it's a business. And their business priorities are
1) Grow the endowment (richy rich people)
2) Create mobility for the underprivileged (take care of the poor)
Middle-class families are not their priority bc middle-class families can access a college education. It may not be Yale but they can go to Uconn for example.

Middle class is supposed to stay middle class. If they become upper middle class trying to be entry level wealthy, private colleges put them back in middle class with high cost. If they don't go for full pay, their kids can't attend ivies, if they pay ivies, they can't retire in peace.

Yes, that is the reality.
And...........it's not like you're not playing the game. Isn't this why we have a spate of 18-year-olds majoring in CS?

So sacrifice kids at the alter, instead of letting them study what they enjoy and are good at?

DP here. Most CS students I know are CS because their parents picked their major (and school).

Regarding middle class - so it is okay for them to get financial aid and attend private high schools, but it is not okay for them to get financial aid at colleges? Not following.

Who said anything about not receiving aid? Middle-class families can and do receive financial aid from many universities. Especially if their stats are higher than the school's average.
I think the PP is speaking out of both sides of her mouth...
"Education is what matters, let them study what they want to study! Education is what matters!"
[b]"And I want them to go to Yale!!!"
[/b]

PP here. This is the impression I am getting. But to say that students are only at the schools OP mentioned because those students are rich, is telling me that they know little if anything about these schools.

There's someone who knows little but it's you. We are ACTIVELY deciding on some of these school right now. ZERO merit at many of them. And what merit there is, is for truly gifted kids (fine). There is need-based available. Or full pay at in excess of $80K/year. Nothing in between.

Now, you move much further down the "rankings", yes, merit is more readily available. But this thread was about tuition/attendance at ELITE schools.

If you knew about the schools then you also knew there would not be any merit. Why apply someplace you cannot afford? Are you into self torture?

You don't need to know why. There are other factors at play and that's all you need to know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already a barbell at the top privates. The kids either have gobs of money (think travel via chartered private jets).... or they are on scholarship. There's no one at these schools with two middle manager parents.

Agree.

The middle is the majority, how come top colleges/privates are not thinking what they are creating? Why high stat kids from MC family gets overlooked for rich or low income families? In other words, kids from MC are being discriminated by top colleges due to not their performance but due to family income.

Because it's a business. And their business priorities are
1) Grow the endowment (richy rich people)
2) Create mobility for the underprivileged (take care of the poor)
Middle-class families are not their priority bc middle-class families can access a college education. It may not be Yale but they can go to Uconn for example.

Middle class is supposed to stay middle class. If they become upper middle class trying to be entry level wealthy, private colleges put them back in middle class with high cost. If they don't go for full pay, their kids can't attend ivies, if they pay ivies, they can't retire in peace.

Yes, that is the reality.
And...........it's not like you're not playing the game. Isn't this why we have a spate of 18-year-olds majoring in CS?

So sacrifice kids at the alter, instead of letting them study what they enjoy and are good at?

DP here. Most CS students I know are CS because their parents picked their major (and school).

Regarding middle class - so it is okay for them to get financial aid and attend private high schools, but it is not okay for them to get financial aid at colleges? Not following.

Who said anything about not receiving aid? Middle-class families can and do receive financial aid from many universities. Especially if their stats are higher than the school's average.
I think the PP is speaking out of both sides of her mouth...
"Education is what matters, let them study what they want to study! Education is what matters!"
[b]"And I want them to go to Yale!!!"
[/b]

PP here. This is the impression I am getting. But to say that students are only at the schools OP mentioned because those students are rich, is telling me that they know little if anything about these schools.

Are you implying the study is wrong? The study shows MC are not in top colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tuition is far too low. Elite colleges should use their position of power to act as private taxing authorities, charging 5-10% of family wealth (total for whole degree) for all students.

They don't have to. The rich students already pay for the less rich students. But in this area, the parents in the $1m+ houses want everything for free.

No one has argued that MC/UMC tuition should be "free". You're just making sh-- up now. They are saying it should at least be accessible.

And FTR, we are absolutely priced out of those schools -my child is turning one down for that reason, which is extremely painful- and we do not live in a million dollar house. We bought our starter for about $300K and stayed in it (didn't trade up).

DP what do you want the price to be? what are you willing to pay?

Something reasonably attainable for MC families. Sorry, I'm not giving a number. But something that allows people to "stretch" if they want to do so w/o making it prohibitively expensive. There's a difference between $50K, which is already quite high, and $80-90K/year.

But you already know this so why are you being obtuse?

So go to the school you can afford. I am not wealthy but we saved bc we wanted to make any college available to our kids. I do not feel bad that you did not save on or made a plan like many of us on this board did. And no, I do not think you should get a discount just because you are whining about it. I don’t whine that I cannot stay at the elite hotels like Four Seasons when the Hilton is just fine. As many on DCUM have said, your child will get a perfectly good education anywhere.

Screw you. We have saved and saved as much as we can. We have no generational money. And 4 sets of aging parents that we are responsible for. So you know sh-- about what I have saved for and why.

This thread is about elite schools and who is going, and why. Educating our kids. Your attempt at an equivalency of hotels is not the same.

If you're kid can get such a good education at a non top school are you practicing what you preach?

Well first, I don’t need to practice anything. I saved $. But if my kids picked GWU or University San Diego over their current school bc they legitimately believed it was the right fit, yes, I would have let them go there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already a barbell at the top privates. The kids either have gobs of money (think travel via chartered private jets).... or they are on scholarship. There's no one at these schools with two middle manager parents.

Agree.

The middle is the majority, how come top colleges/privates are not thinking what they are creating? Why high stat kids from MC family gets overlooked for rich or low income families? In other words, kids from MC are being discriminated by top colleges due to not their performance but due to family income.

Because it's a business. And their business priorities are
1) Grow the endowment (richy rich people)
2) Create mobility for the underprivileged (take care of the poor)
Middle-class families are not their priority bc middle-class families can access a college education. It may not be Yale but they can go to Uconn for example.

Middle class is supposed to stay middle class. If they become upper middle class trying to be entry level wealthy, private colleges put them back in middle class with high cost. If they don't go for full pay, their kids can't attend ivies, if they pay ivies, they can't retire in peace.

Yes, that is the reality.
And...........it's not like you're not playing the game. Isn't this why we have a spate of 18-year-olds majoring in CS?

So sacrifice kids at the alter, instead of letting them study what they enjoy and are good at?

DP here. Most CS students I know are CS because their parents picked their major (and school).

Regarding middle class - so it is okay for them to get financial aid and attend private high schools, but it is not okay for them to get financial aid at colleges? Not following.

Who said anything about not receiving aid? Middle-class families can and do receive financial aid from many universities. Especially if their stats are higher than the school's average.
I think the PP is speaking out of both sides of her mouth...
"Education is what matters, let them study what they want to study! Education is what matters!"
[b]"And I want them to go to Yale!!!"
[/b]

PP here. This is the impression I am getting. But to say that students are only at the schools OP mentioned because those students are rich, is telling me that they know little if anything about these schools.

There's someone who knows little but it's you. We are ACTIVELY deciding on some of these school right now. ZERO merit at many of them. And what merit there is, is for truly gifted kids (fine). There is need-based available. Or full pay at in excess of $80K/year. Nothing in between.

Now, you move much further down the "rankings", yes, merit is more readily available. But this thread was about tuition/attendance at ELITE schools.

If you knew about the schools then you also knew there would not be any merit. Why apply someplace you cannot afford? Are you into self torture?

You don't need to know why. There are other factors at play and that's all you need to know.

Cool cool. Carry on with your whining then….I think you were on “but Life Isn’t Fair!!!!!!!…”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's already a barbell at the top privates. The kids either have gobs of money (think travel via chartered private jets).... or they are on scholarship. There's no one at these schools with two middle manager parents.

Agree.

The middle is the majority, how come top colleges/privates are not thinking what they are creating? Why high stat kids from MC family gets overlooked for rich or low income families? In other words, kids from MC are being discriminated by top colleges due to not their performance but due to family income.

Because it's a business. And their business priorities are
1) Grow the endowment (richy rich people)
2) Create mobility for the underprivileged (take care of the poor)
Middle-class families are not their priority bc middle-class families can access a college education. It may not be Yale but they can go to Uconn for example.

Middle class is supposed to stay middle class. If they become upper middle class trying to be entry level wealthy, private colleges put them back in middle class with high cost. If they don't go for full pay, their kids can't attend ivies, if they pay ivies, they can't retire in peace.

Yes, that is the reality.
And...........it's not like you're not playing the game. Isn't this why we have a spate of 18-year-olds majoring in CS?

So sacrifice kids at the alter, instead of letting them study what they enjoy and are good at?

DP here. Most CS students I know are CS because their parents picked their major (and school).

Regarding middle class - so it is okay for them to get financial aid and attend private high schools, but it is not okay for them to get financial aid at colleges? Not following.

Where do you live that "most CS students you know are majoring in CS because their parents picked their major"?

My DS picked his own major, fwiw, including a double major in math. Most boys seems to pick it because they like computers and don't know what else to major in. They certainly don't like the arts or English. So, the default seems to be IS or CS or engineering.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why state flagships are seeing more and more high stats students.

+100

Yale is 95-100K/year all in now.

They show that donut hole families have the lowest acceptance rate at these schools.

They want richy-rich or poor. The first will yield and pay, the second will go for free or get a large chunk of need-based aid.

The donut hole have to really think if they can get by and figure out loans/financing on their own. More yield risk.

There really isn't much of a donut hole for this tier. People making under 250k get aid. We are under 150k and got excellent aid. Are 300k+ incomes really donut hole? Not in the middle class person's book.

$300k in a high cost area, like DC, is definitely a donut hole family. Housing anywhere remotely inside the beltway is $800k-1 million+...this is with a 45 min+ commute. Childcare costs are some of the highest in the nation. People making $300k here aren't extravagant living lifestyles of the rich and famous. They are often two Fed GS-14s or below. They aren't driving luxury cars, etc.

To swing $170-180k/year for two kids to attend a school like Georgetown or Yale is a sh*tload of $. And for the reasons above ^^ saving in a 529 each year ---you will still need loans. I'm not talking about families that bought their current "1.5 million+ home back when it cost $500k in the early 2000s.

Families like this gun for UVA or William & Mary as a sound investment and ROI and $ left for professional school.

They don't qualify for any aid anywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is why state flagships are seeing more and more high stats students.

+100

Yale is 95-100K/year all in now.

They show that donut hole families have the lowest acceptance rate at these schools.

They want richy-rich or poor. The first will yield and pay, the second will go for free or get a large chunk of need-based aid.

The donut hole have to really think if they can get by and figure out loans/financing on their own. More yield risk.

There really isn't much of a donut hole for this tier. People making under 250k get aid. We are under 150k and got excellent aid. Are 300k+ incomes really donut hole? Not in the middle class person's book.

$300k in a high cost area, like DC, is definitely a donut hole family. Housing anywhere remotely inside the beltway is $800k-1 million+...this is with a 45 min+ commute. Childcare costs are some of the highest in the nation. People making $300k here aren't extravagant living lifestyles of the rich and famous. They are often two Fed GS-14s or below. They aren't driving luxury cars, etc.

To swing $170-180k/year for two kids to attend a school like Georgetown or Yale is a sh*tload of $. And for the reasons above ^^ saving in a 529 each year ---you will still need loans. I'm not talking about families that bought their current "1.5 million+ home back when it cost $500k in the early 2000s.

Families like this gun for UVA or William & Mary as a sound investment and ROI and $ left for professional school.

They don't qualify for any aid anywhere.

And as others stated---these are families that did not get trust fund or inheritances and likely were paying off some of their own student loans. It was THEIR OWN $ for the down payment on the house, etc. Grandparents aren't putting $ in the 529s--often these families are taking care of other members of the family financially---siblings or parents, etc.

[Anonymous]

I hate to burst the resentment bubble here, but most of DC's friend at his Ivy come from hard-wording MC families, often with Asian-immigrant parents who have good professional jobs but no serious donor potential.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I hate to burst the resentment bubble here, but most of DC's friend at his Ivy come from hard-wording MC families, often with Asian-immigrant parents who have good professional jobs but no serious donor potential.

And they are getting aid. Kind of not the point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Tuition is far too low. Elite colleges should use their position of power to act as private taxing authorities, charging 5-10% of family wealth (total for whole degree) for all students.

They don't have to. The rich students already pay for the less rich students. But in this area, the parents in the $1m+ houses want everything for free.

No one has argued that MC/UMC tuition should be "free". You're just making sh-- up now. They are saying it should at least be accessible.

And FTR, we are absolutely priced out of those schools -my child is turning one down for that reason, which is extremely painful- and we do not live in a million dollar house. We bought our starter for about $300K and stayed in it (didn't trade up).

DP what do you want the price to be? what are you willing to pay?

Something reasonably attainable for MC families. Sorry, I'm not giving a number. But something that allows people to "stretch" if they want to do so w/o making it prohibitively expensive. There's a difference between $50K, which is already quite high, and $80-90K/year.

But you already know this so why are you being obtuse?

So go to the school you can afford. I am not wealthy but we saved bc we wanted to make any college available to our kids. I do not feel bad that you did not save on or made a plan like many of us on this board did. And no, I do not think you should get a discount just because you are whining about it. I don’t whine that I cannot stay at the elite hotels like Four Seasons when the Hilton is just fine. As many on DCUM have said, your child will get a perfectly good education anywhere.

+1. Same. Also, the number of people trying to count to count other people's pennies is astonishing. Do what you can. Don't worry so much about what others are doing.

It is not about the money, it is about not being admitted that is the issue.