Petition: Later MCPS school start times

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? It’s good practice for high schoolers to be prepared for 8am classes in college or the workforce.

Exactly what I was thinking! I remember that 8am Chemistry class freshmen year.

To be fair, I didn't have to wake up for 8AM Chemistry until 7:30AM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So many decisions are made based on free transportation. Snow days, flooded roads, start times, end times. It’s ridiculous. We need to do away with school buses, boost the public buses and make decisions based on what’s best for our kids.

Having a safe way to get to school is good for many people's children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Later? My kid's school doesn't start until nearly 9:30!

If we're going to push back high school, we need more buses to at least avoid needing to do two runs for elementary schools.

How do you feel about that start time? My kids had it, and I can't even describe how difficult it made my life while they were in elementary school. Of course, I didn't work at home at all back then, which was part of the problem.

9:25am is pretty awful. I don't understand how before-care isn't overflowing. 7:45 would mean a lot of people wouldn't need before care. I kind of doubt just doing aftercare would be much cheaper, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They didn't have reasonable start times even when they didn't bus kids across the street in the 2000s.

That's because they did bus kids across the street in the 2000s.

No they did not everywhere, our kids did cross the dangerous street

They didn't everywhere, but they did in some places - just like now. Some kids get bused across the dangerous street, other kids are expected to cross the dangerous street.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Later? My kid's school doesn't start until nearly 9:30!

If we're going to push back high school, we need more buses to at least avoid needing to do two runs for elementary schools.

How do you feel about that start time? My kids had it, and I can't even describe how difficult it made my life while they were in elementary school. Of course, I didn't work at home at all back then, which was part of the problem.

9:25am is pretty awful. I don't understand how before-care isn't overflowing. 7:45 would mean a lot of people wouldn't need before care. I kind of doubt just doing aftercare would be much cheaper, though.

I think with wfh a lot of people are making it work. If you live close to the school you can drop off when the doors open and be “at work” by 9:15.

I support moving ES times earlier, but I wonder if the later schedule is ideal for people working from home because you get coverage during core hours without having to do after care. Uninterrupted time theoretically 9:15-3:45ish and then fake it a bit before and after.

[Anonymous]

Loudoun County does elementary first, then middle, then HS. HS is 9:30-4:30, elementary school is 7:30-2:15.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many decisions are made based on free transportation. Snow days, flooded roads, start times, end times. It’s ridiculous. We need to do away with school buses, boost the public buses and make decisions based on what’s best for our kids.

You want elementary school kids to get on RideOn buses alone?

Even if you limited it to HS, RideOn routes could never scale up to meet the demand before and after school.

In plenty of cities ES kids get in the bus. At the very least MS/HS kids get on the bus and train.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Later? My kid's school doesn't start until nearly 9:30!

If we're going to push back high school, we need more buses to at least avoid needing to do two runs for elementary schools.

They should switch ES and secondary school so ES is early

How would after-school activities work for high school kids then?

Many other states have later start times. It has been a non issue. DCPS schools start at 9 am, even high schools. Students at DCPS School without Walls HS don’t even have athletic fields. They finish school at 3.30 pm and then commute, sometimes across the city, for sports practice and then commute all the way home. And we are freaking out about after school activities getting messed up if school lets out at 3 pm instead of 2.30 pm? Trust me it is not impossible and will be better for the kids. Change is possible and not something to be scared of

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Later? My kid's school doesn't start until nearly 9:30!

If we're going to push back high school, we need more buses to at least avoid needing to do two runs for elementary schools.

They should switch ES and secondary school so ES is early

How would after-school activities work for high school kids then?

Many other states have later start times. It has been a non issue. DCPS schools start at 9 am, even high schools. Students at DCPS School without Walls HS don’t even have athletic fields. They finish school at 3.30 pm and then commute, sometimes across the city, for sports practice and then commute all the way home. And we are freaking out about after school activities getting messed up if school lets out at 3 pm instead of 2.30 pm? Trust me it is not impossible and will be better for the kids. Change is possible and not something to be scared of

Then describe a plausible schedule/plan that covers ES, MS, HS, magnet, and activity buses. Maybe there's a solution, but I don't see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You know what? It’s good practice for high schoolers to be prepared for 8am classes in college or the workforce.

Exactly what I was thinking! I remember that 8am Chemistry class freshmen year.

To be fair, I didn't have to wake up for 8AM Chemistry until 7:30AM.

Yep, this is the difference. Also, I never took an 8am college class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Later? My kid's school doesn't start until nearly 9:30!

If we're going to push back high school, we need more buses to at least avoid needing to do two runs for elementary schools.

It is a petition for HS, but I've seen it and it does not grapple at all with any of the issues raised by the Bell Times Report. It makes a good case for the science behind teen sleep, but that doesn't answer the problems that have already been raised with making high schoolers start later. It's my opinion that MCPS won't meaningfully engage with this question until/unless someone comes up with some solutions for those barriers.

MCPS has bigger fish to fry at the moment. They should care but we all know. ES parents - yours will be in HS sooner than you know it!

I'm the PP and I think MCPS did engage on this, produced a report, and moved bell times by like 15 minutes. If parents want them to reconsider, they need to show new information. That means either new research (does not exist) or new solutions to the barriers identified in the earlier report. It's not as easy as "we want it." That's not how good policy advocacy works. You have to help the policymakers identify solutions.

Or they look at the issue a decade later and even based on the same data and concerns, priorities have changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many decisions are made based on free transportation. Snow days, flooded roads, start times, end times. It’s ridiculous. We need to do away with school buses, boost the public buses and make decisions based on what’s best for our kids.

You want elementary school kids to get on RideOn buses alone?

Even if you limited it to HS, RideOn routes could never scale up to meet the demand before and after school.

In plenty of cities ES kids get in the bus. At the very least MS/HS kids get on the bus and train.

I have a hard time imagining my 6-year-old getting on a city bus. Actually no, I know exactly what would happen.

Regardless, let's say, as you seem to suggest, we keep buses for ES, and have MS/HS ride non-school public transportation.

How would that work? RideOn only carries 57,000 riders per day. MCPS reports 100,000 students ride the bus, typically twice per day. That's an extra 200,000 rides.

Now, obviously not all of those are middle/high school students, but you're still looking at increasing rides per day by 3-4x.

Worse, those rides obviously aren't spread throughout the day or throughout the system. Most of the riders would be going to a handful of places. But they'd need to get picked up from wider range of bus stops than currently exist. So many, many more buses would be needed. For only on some routes that pass schools, and only for a couple hours each day.

In an area of higher density housing, workplaces, and transit, this could be workable. You would expect a higher percentage of walkers. And higher-capacity rail service carrying some of the burden. But this wouldn't work in a place like MoCo.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Later? My kid's school doesn't start until nearly 9:30!

If we're going to push back high school, we need more buses to at least avoid needing to do two runs for elementary schools.

They should switch ES and secondary school so ES is early

How would after-school activities work for high school kids then?

Many other states have later start times. It has been a non issue. DCPS schools start at 9 am, even high schools. Students at DCPS School without Walls HS don’t even have athletic fields. They finish school at 3.30 pm and then commute, sometimes across the city, for sports practice and then commute all the way home. And we are freaking out about after school activities getting messed up if school lets out at 3 pm instead of 2.30 pm? Trust me it is not impossible and will be better for the kids. Change is possible and not something to be scared of

Then describe a plausible schedule/plan that covers ES, MS, HS, magnet, and activity buses. Maybe there's a solution, but I don't see it.

As someone who grew up with this, it’s horrible. After school practice got out at 4:30 and we’d have studio dance starting at 5-9. Just because it works better for you personally doesn’t mean it works better for everyone. High school kids have other things to do outside of school activities like jobs, taking care of siblings, other activities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Later? My kid's school doesn't start until nearly 9:30!

If we're going to push back high school, we need more buses to at least avoid needing to do two runs for elementary schools.

How do you feel about that start time? My kids had it, and I can't even describe how difficult it made my life while they were in elementary school. Of course, I didn't work at home at all back then, which was part of the problem.

9:25am is pretty awful. I don't understand how before-care isn't overflowing. 7:45 would mean a lot of people wouldn't need before care. I kind of doubt just doing aftercare would be much cheaper, though.

I think with wfh a lot of people are making it work. If you live close to the school you can drop off when the doors open and be “at work” by 9:15.

I support moving ES times earlier, but I wonder if the later schedule is ideal for people working from home because you get coverage during core hours without having to do after care. Uninterrupted time theoretically 9:15-3:45ish and then fake it a bit before and after.

How many people really have jobs where they rarely/never have work obligations before 9:15? Professional telework-friendly jobs will still have travel and meetings before 9:30. And many other jobs, like doctors/nurses, can't telework at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So many decisions are made based on free transportation. Snow days, flooded roads, start times, end times. It’s ridiculous. We need to do away with school buses, boost the public buses and make decisions based on what’s best for our kids.

You want elementary school kids to get on RideOn buses alone?

Even if you limited it to HS, RideOn routes could never scale up to meet the demand before and after school.

In plenty of cities ES kids get in the bus. At the very least MS/HS kids get on the bus and train.

I have a hard time imagining my 6-year-old getting on a city bus. Actually no, I know exactly what would happen.

Regardless, let's say, as you seem to suggest, we keep buses for ES, and have MS/HS ride non-school public transportation.

How would that work? RideOn only carries 57,000 riders per day. MCPS reports 100,000 students ride the bus, typically twice per day. That's an extra 200,000 rides.

Now, obviously not all of those are middle/high school students, but you're still looking at increasing rides per day by 3-4x.

Worse, those rides obviously aren't spread throughout the day or throughout the system. Most of the riders would be going to a handful of places. But they'd need to get picked up from wider range of bus stops than currently exist. So many, many more buses would be needed. For only on some routes that pass schools, and only for a couple hours each day.

In an area of higher density housing, workplaces, and transit, this could be workable. You would expect a higher percentage of walkers. And higher-capacity rail service carrying some of the burden. But this wouldn't work in a place like MoCo.

I don't think you're familiar with how RideOn and Metrobus work in Montgomery County. You go to a bus stop, you get on the bus, you take the bus until you get to your stop, then you get off. And many of the routes have different frequencies, depending on time of day.