Washington Liberty IB Program - Was it Worth It?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Above is incorrect. Students going for the full IBD can easily take two IB sciences for points on their IB points totals (24-45 points is a pass) by substituting the arts requirement (music, visual arts, theater, film) for a second science. That's been an option with IB for more than 20 years.

They can even take a 3rd science as a 7th IB subject is they're so inclined. Plenty of IB students also take 1, 2 or 3 AP science exams, or maybe Cambridge Intl GSCE, AS-Level or A-Level science exams.

Are the A-level science exams required for most British universities?

. No, look up admissions requirements on British univ web sites. They spell out the exam results they’re looking for. IBD works fine, it’s a common curriculum in the UK.

So many silly tangents. The percentage of W-L students attending foreign universities is very low.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

Well then, I guess I am wrong. Thank goodness you pointed that out. Your argument about how it used to be surely is convincing. They all know how to write, what am I talking about?

You are wrong. Teachers can grade and give feedbacknonnpapers without kids being in IB. Your assertions are bizarre.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You are wrong. Teachers can grade and give feedbacknonnpapers without kids being in IB. Your assertions are bizarre.

DP. The problem is teachers CAN give feedback but they are overworked and have too many kids so often the feedback is lacking or insufficient simply because their workload is too heavy. We are looking at IB for next year and this has been our middle school experience. Real essay writing has been minimal, and teacher feedback even more minimal. Even math teachers are giving kids the answer keys and only grading on whether homework is turned in. They don't review and correct work themselves.

This is not a dig at teachers. It's the situation APS finds it in. In theory, the writing-intensive aspect of IB therefore makes it more likely that a run of the mill student is going to get more and better opportunities to write and feedback to improve that writing.

[Anonymous]

Wow. It’s hard to believe that is the state of non IB instruction in APS high schools. We aren’t in APS anymore. Very sorry to hear that. I guess maybe IB really does matter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. It’s hard to believe that is the state of non IB instruction in APS high schools. We aren’t in APS anymore. Very sorry to hear that. I guess maybe IB really does matter.

Faulty logic, but go on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

College expectations and acceptance was radically easier 25 years ago.

Actually, I don't think the expectations have changed that much. The competitiveness and acceptance has. That's why parents push for their kids' ability to retake and retake or red-do, why parents hover over their kids' school lives so much, why kids are experiencing so much more anxiety. And as a result, schools implement policies like "no zeros" and retakes and no homework or no graded homework, etc.

Meanwhile, colleges are not getting students who are as well- or better-prepared for college as they did in the past, despite higher student GPA stats and test scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow. It’s hard to believe that is the state of non IB instruction in APS high schools. We aren’t in APS anymore. Very sorry to hear that. I guess maybe IB really does matter.

The AP Seminar and AP Research classes are very beneficial as well. I know this post is supposed to be about WL IB; but more students would be well-served to take these AP classes as well. Unfortunately, the ELA curriculum isn't likely to improve any time soon. So in the meantime, this is what kids have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

College expectations and acceptance was radically easier 25 years ago.

Actually, I don't think the expectations have changed that much. The competitiveness and acceptance has. That's why parents push for their kids' ability to retake and retake or red-do, why parents hover over their kids' school lives so much, why kids are experiencing so much more anxiety. And as a result, schools implement policies like "no zeros" and retakes and no homework or no graded homework, etc.

Meanwhile, colleges are not getting students who are as well- or better-prepared for college as they did in the past, despite higher student GPA stats and test scores.

25 years ago, the top 10% of local high schools had GPAs in the 3.8 range on average. Those students got into UVA, W&M, Johns Hopkins, etc. Now 4.0 is the lower end for admission to university. Yet those students are not necessarily as well prepared, especially when it comes to writing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

College expectations and acceptance was radically easier 25 years ago.

Actually, I don't think the expectations have changed that much. The competitiveness and acceptance has. That's why parents push for their kids' ability to retake and retake or red-do, why parents hover over their kids' school lives so much, why kids are experiencing so much more anxiety. And as a result, schools implement policies like "no zeros" and retakes and no homework or no graded homework, etc.

Meanwhile, colleges are not getting students who are as well- or better-prepared for college as they did in the past, despite higher student GPA stats and test scores.

25 years ago, the top 10% of local high schools had GPAs in the 3.8 range on average. Those students got into UVA, W&M, Johns Hopkins, etc. Now 4.0 is the lower end for admission to university. Yet those students are not necessarily as well prepared, especially when it comes to writing.

No. APS has been giving an additional point for AP class grades for more than 20 years. And they’ve had the whole 50 valedictorians (everyone over a 4.0) for the same timeline.

I disagree with the grade inflation but it’s been a problem at APS for decades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

College expectations and acceptance was radically easier 25 years ago.

Actually, I don't think the expectations have changed that much. The competitiveness and acceptance has. That's why parents push for their kids' ability to retake and retake or red-do, why parents hover over their kids' school lives so much, why kids are experiencing so much more anxiety. And as a result, schools implement policies like "no zeros" and retakes and no homework or no graded homework, etc.

Meanwhile, colleges are not getting students who are as well- or better-prepared for college as they did in the past, despite higher student GPA stats and test scores.

25 years ago, the top 10% of local high schools had GPAs in the 3.8 range on average. Those students got into UVA, W&M, Johns Hopkins, etc. Now 4.0 is the lower end for admission to university. Yet those students are not necessarily as well prepared, especially when it comes to writing.

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

College expectations and acceptance was radically easier 25 years ago.

Actually, I don't think the expectations have changed that much. The competitiveness and acceptance has. That's why parents push for their kids' ability to retake and retake or red-do, why parents hover over their kids' school lives so much, why kids are experiencing so much more anxiety. And as a result, schools implement policies like "no zeros" and retakes and no homework or no graded homework, etc.

Meanwhile, colleges are not getting students who are as well- or better-prepared for college as they did in the past, despite higher student GPA stats and test scores.

25 years ago, the top 10% of local high schools had GPAs in the 3.8 range on average. Those students got into UVA, W&M, Johns Hopkins, etc. Now 4.0 is the lower end for admission to university. Yet those students are not necessarily as well prepared, especially when it comes to writing.

No. APS has been giving an additional point for AP class grades for more than 20 years. And they’ve had the whole 50 valedictorians (everyone over a 4.0) for the same timeline.

I disagree with the grade inflation but it’s been a problem at APS for decades.

First IB graduates were in ‘98. APS graduates in the late 90s were absolutely getting into top schools without 4.0 GPAs then. Also students took far fewer APs. Often one each junior and senior years. AP US & Va history. Maybe AP English 12. Some took AP Euro in 10th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

College expectations and acceptance was radically easier 25 years ago.

Actually, I don't think the expectations have changed that much. The competitiveness and acceptance has. That's why parents push for their kids' ability to retake and retake or red-do, why parents hover over their kids' school lives so much, why kids are experiencing so much more anxiety. And as a result, schools implement policies like "no zeros" and retakes and no homework or no graded homework, etc.

Meanwhile, colleges are not getting students who are as well- or better-prepared for college as they did in the past, despite higher student GPA stats and test scores.

25 years ago, the top 10% of local high schools had GPAs in the 3.8 range on average. Those students got into UVA, W&M, Johns Hopkins, etc. Now 4.0 is the lower end for admission to university. Yet those students are not necessarily as well prepared, especially when it comes to writing.

No. APS has been giving an additional point for AP class grades for more than 20 years. And they’ve had the whole 50 valedictorians (everyone over a 4.0) for the same timeline.

I disagree with the grade inflation but it’s been a problem at APS for decades.

I think you're missing the point.
College expectations aren't what's changed. The preparation and stats have changed. I don't care that APS has given weighted grades for AP (who doesn't?) for 20 years. There are far more than 50 "Valedictorians" now and curriculum has changed, skill development has changed, more students are applying to colleges and it is becoming more competitive - especially if colleges are trying to find students who are actually best-prepared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a sophomore at WL high school who is struggling with whether she should do the full IB program at WL high school, or simply do a mix of AP and IB classes without getting the full diploma. A key factor in her decision-making is future college options. She is worried that if she does not do the full IB program, colleges will question why she did not take the most rigorous curriculum offered at her school. She is aiming for some of the most highly competitive colleges. Any thoughts from those who have been there/done that? It is worth putting yourself through the rigor of the IB program? She is interested in a STEM career and IB is not necessarily a perfect fit for that, but it is what it is. Have any of your children regretted their decision to do the IB program?

Uh? She wants to go to some of “most highly selective colleges” and yet the rigor of IB is at all a concern? I mean, I get that she wants to do STEM, but come on. Have you looked at the W&L matriculations to the “most highly selective colleges”? Not to mean, but you sound like you have no clue. Almost no one from that smart group of kids is getting into those schools. Except athletic recruits. And THE VERY BEST students, like top ten. None of those kids are scared off by IB and would only consider the most rigorous courses. To be clear, I am not including UVA.

This is the OP. She is not concerned about the rigor, but rather, the fact that the IB requirements preclude her from taking other classes that are more relevant to STEM and her areas of interest/focus. There is no question she would do the IB program if she was interested in going into a humanities field.

IB is excellent for STEM. It's so obvious someone has no STEM experience when they come in and claim that AP is the ideal program, as if AP Calculus BC is the key to the STEM universe. Couldn't be further from the truth.
Someone who goes through IB and learns to write extensively in math and science is going to be better off in the long run even if they didn't learn that one integration rule absent from IB Math that AP Calc does cover. Oh please. There are four years of college-level math and science to go at that point. High school math material is inconsequential. Nobody wants the engineer or developer who sucks at writing technical reports.

One has to laugh at the suggestion that you're going to suck at writing unless you enroll in some over-hyped IB program.

The #1 complaint of recent APS college students is that they are ill prepared in writing. The fact is that APS teachers have 25 kids in a class X 4? or 5? periods a day. What if they assign a three page paper, that’s what 300 pages? How can s/he engage in real editing? Any back and forth? Any revisions? Unrealistic.

Critical thinking skills expressed in written form, edited, revised, etc are not being taught. IB has forced it on students due to the program itself, but it’s why many pull for private as well or try desperately to get into HB for the teacher/student ratio.

That’s exactly how it worked at my mediocre public high school 25 years ago. Somehow the teachers made it work.

College expectations and acceptance was radically easier 25 years ago.

Actually, I don't think the expectations have changed that much. The competitiveness and acceptance has. That's why parents push for their kids' ability to retake and retake or red-do, why parents hover over their kids' school lives so much, why kids are experiencing so much more anxiety. And as a result, schools implement policies like "no zeros" and retakes and no homework or no graded homework, etc.

Meanwhile, colleges are not getting students who are as well- or better-prepared for college as they did in the past, despite higher student GPA stats and test scores.

25 years ago, the top 10% of local high schools had GPAs in the 3.8 range on average. Those students got into UVA, W&M, Johns Hopkins, etc. Now 4.0 is the lower end for admission to university. Yet those students are not necessarily as well prepared, especially when it comes to writing.

No. APS has been giving an additional point for AP class grades for more than 20 years. And they’ve had the whole 50 valedictorians (everyone over a 4.0) for the same timeline.

I disagree with the grade inflation but it’s been a problem at APS for decades.

First IB graduates were in ‘98. APS graduates in the late 90s were absolutely getting into top schools without 4.0 GPAs then. Also students took far fewer APs. Often one each junior and senior years. AP US & Va history. Maybe AP English 12. Some took AP Euro in 10th grade.

To add to the above, the general ed classes were more rigorous then and expectations were higher. Also far less students were college bound on average in both APS and FCPS.

[Anonymous]

All 3 of my kids were in IB and all 3 of them got in multiple BS/MD programs and multiple Ivy/Tier1 universities too. Getting accepted to BS/MD programs show that their STEM profile was very strong.
However you have to plan for it appropriately right from freshman year of HS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Based on my DD's experience at WL, do the mix of IB. My DD took all IB except for one class and got in ED to her top choice. Two of her friends who did full IB did not get into their top choices, but ended up at fabulous schools. Don't do full IB for purely college admission. Do the combo IB and STEM. They want to see that you are challenging yourself and pursuing your interests. Best of luck!

I agree with mixing it up. I am from Michigan and my kid was just admitted to U of Michigan for LSA Poli Sci with a mix of IB and AP classes. Full IB was too restrictive and he did not have a senior project idea that he was passionate about. He had gone through a public IB since kindergarten.